The Swimming Thread - Pool/OW
Discussion
Not watched the finals today yet, so skipped over a few posts. I'm watching Eurosport and they indeed talk a lot about Lochte's turn. I've been noticing a number of fly swimmers moving (almost) onto their sides for the underwater phase, to try and take advantage of the extra power on your back I guess. Certainly my fly kick underwater was always so much stronger on my back than my front. I do wonder about Lochte's turns though; as he gets older, his breath-holding will falter especially when fatigued, I wonder whether he's better off surfacing slightly earlier and breathing to avoid fatiguing further down the length.
Talking of 'freestyle', some (older swimmers) on here may remember a chap called Rik Leishman, Scottish International who swam for Kelly College in the 80s. Always remember him swimming the men's open 100 freestyle at the Western League final and doing fly and doing pretty well - as a 10 year old, I thought he was a bit of a legend!
Talking of 'freestyle', some (older swimmers) on here may remember a chap called Rik Leishman, Scottish International who swam for Kelly College in the 80s. Always remember him swimming the men's open 100 freestyle at the Western League final and doing fly and doing pretty well - as a 10 year old, I thought he was a bit of a legend!
My coach tried to explain this to me many times and I was never sure I believed it. Its not straight forward to explain but fly kick on your back is more efficient than on your front, it's difficult to prove because even some of the best backstrokers do the under water part poorly, and my guess was if you thought about it long enough when kicking on your front you could train your body to do the same action as on your back to get the same result with out the disorienting effects, anyway this is how it was explained to me. If you stand vertically upwards and bends forwards your body bends at the waist and you become shorter and a less efficient shape in the water. If you bend backwards your body extends and becomes taught making the process of collecting water at your hands and accelerating down your body and shooting it out of your feet more efficient. on your back you do this quicker so do not bend forwards as much as you do on your front and so your body remains in a more optimum position. Either way my pb for 50m fly kick under water on my back without a dive was the same on my front with a dive so quite abit over a 50m.
Edited by OneDs on Friday 7th August 21:23
Otispunkmeyer said:
And I just worked out why Phelps isn't here, not because hes avoided competition when he's perhaps not in full shape (though all indication is he's in optimal form!)...its because his DUI got him knocked off the team! They're probably wishing they'd brought him now because they're not doing all that well on the mens side.
Oh yes.http://swimswam.com/michael-phelps-this-just-shows...
Faster than his 2012 time. And faster than Laszlo Cseh's from Kazan this week.
I don't condone what Phelps did at all and it was right he was punished with a ban but I bet the US team are regretting not allowing him at the worlds. After all they got spanked by TeamGB in the 4x200m relay
944fan said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
And I just worked out why Phelps isn't here, not because hes avoided competition when he's perhaps not in full shape (though all indication is he's in optimal form!)...its because his DUI got him knocked off the team! They're probably wishing they'd brought him now because they're not doing all that well on the mens side.
Oh yes.http://swimswam.com/michael-phelps-this-just-shows...
Faster than his 2012 time. And faster than Laszlo Cseh's from Kazan this week.
I don't condone what Phelps did at all and it was right he was punished with a ban but I bet the US team are regretting not allowing him at the worlds. After all they got spanked by TeamGB in the 4x200m relay
Just watched Katie Ledecky win the 800.... shes won the 2, the 4, the 15 and now the 8 and the time, oh my god the time, 8.07! You have to be s
tting on my face, that is just biblical. She was ahead of the WR the whole way, on it from the start and just kept swimming away from everyone. Absolutely epic.The BBC woman said something like "Carlin will have to see off Katie Ledecky if she wants to get in the medals...." What competition has she been watching? Ledecky is untouchable over 200m, she did 8.13 to her feet in the middle of the 1500! Something like the 8th fastest time ever and faster than Adlingtons WR when she won in Beijing. There was never ever going to be anyone "seeing off" Ledecky.
I assume they'll all be pissing in the bottles after every final. Hopefully FINA remember to tick the right boxes! (Peaty's old WR stood un-ratified for over a year because someone didn't tick a box. Good job he smashed it again anyway).
I think Ledecky is just a freak, like Phelps. He's got the right shape (long body, long arms, short-ish legs), he's mighty flexible and apparently his heart can pump a serious amount of blood which helps him recover quickly. Ledecky was probably born without the ability to produce lactic acid or something! Anyone else would be burning like hell swimming like she does.
I think Ledecky is just a freak, like Phelps. He's got the right shape (long body, long arms, short-ish legs), he's mighty flexible and apparently his heart can pump a serious amount of blood which helps him recover quickly. Ledecky was probably born without the ability to produce lactic acid or something! Anyone else would be burning like hell swimming like she does.
Must admit I watched the 50 Free final and for the first time had a proper look at the guys like Manadou and what the juddering fk? Since when were swimmers competing with Second Rows and Mr Universe in the body building stakes? The guys have always been all shoulders and backs but the frames and bodies these guys are now packing are seriously stacked units these days!
k? Since when were swimmers competing with Second Rows and Mr Universe in the body building stakes? The guys have always been all shoulders and backs but the frames and bodies these guys are now packing are seriously stacked units these days!Indeed... Partly its the reason why we've not done so well in the past I think. Our swimmers, especially some of the girls, were tiny compared to their German counterparts for example. The guys were never as big as the americans or the aussies either (then again the aussies had their own freaks, like Thorpe, did you see the size of him at 17? huge).
Having said that, past greats like Van den Hoogenband and Popov were strong looking, but never like a brick st house. Phelps too isn't an absolute tower of power, but he's got other things going for him.
But they're on the gym work now, heavy olympic lifts and everything. Just look at Peaty and Proud, they're stacked! and it looks a little odd because they have small, adolescent faces. Like some one plonked a boys head on a body builders body. James Guy is one of the exceptions, he still looks relatively normal sized but he's just so fking quick it hurts!
The french have had absolute moon units on their team for ages. Just look for pictures of Alain Bernard...his lats are so massive they just don't fit in his body suit! I am surprised that Manadou's gold is the first 50 sprint gold they've had ( i think thats what the commentators mentioned). They've had some of THE fastest freestylers in the world, often 2-3 on the same relay team, but they just never seem to be able to pull it off when it counts. Always an Aussie or a yank to pip them to the post.
In Beijing the french were odds on winners for the 4x100, but Jason Lezak channelled some "America fk Yeah!" team spirit and crushed their hopes with a 46 flat relay split! ... Now, James Guy's last 200 on the 4x200 was st hot, but he was racing someone who was a second or two slower over the 200. In 2008 Lezak was racing Bernard, a man who'd just lost his 100 WR to Eamon Sullivan who cracked it out on the first leg for the Aussies (IIRC, not sure). watching that relay unfold was absolutely, spine-tingly, good and still the best spectacle I have seen in swimming.
Having said that, past greats like Van den Hoogenband and Popov were strong looking, but never like a brick s
t house. Phelps too isn't an absolute tower of power, but he's got other things going for him.But they're on the gym work now, heavy olympic lifts and everything. Just look at Peaty and Proud, they're stacked! and it looks a little odd because they have small, adolescent faces. Like some one plonked a boys head on a body builders body. James Guy is one of the exceptions, he still looks relatively normal sized but he's just so f
king quick it hurts!The french have had absolute moon units on their team for ages. Just look for pictures of Alain Bernard...his lats are so massive they just don't fit in his body suit! I am surprised that Manadou's gold is the first 50 sprint gold they've had ( i think thats what the commentators mentioned). They've had some of THE fastest freestylers in the world, often 2-3 on the same relay team, but they just never seem to be able to pull it off when it counts. Always an Aussie or a yank to pip them to the post.
In Beijing the french were odds on winners for the 4x100, but Jason Lezak channelled some "America f
k Yeah!" team spirit and crushed their hopes with a 46 flat relay split! ... Now, James Guy's last 200 on the 4x200 was st hot, but he was racing someone who was a second or two slower over the 200. In 2008 Lezak was racing Bernard, a man who'd just lost his 100 WR to Eamon Sullivan who cracked it out on the first leg for the Aussies (IIRC, not sure). watching that relay unfold was absolutely, spine-tingly, good and still the best spectacle I have seen in swimming.Notice as well the big guys are doing the 50 by pretty much wind-milling. Straight arm recovery, almost straight arm pull. It develops a lot of drag, which is why you'll see distance stars like Sun Yang with very pronounced high elbow pull. You generate less leverage, less power, but you have much less drag to overcome and in water, drag will always win out. But on the 50, if you're strong enough, you can go all out with straight arms as fast as you can twirl them. Massive power for short time. Like the 50 back, its becoming all about turn over now.
You need serious upper body and arm strength to pull that off. I can manage it for the first 25 of a 50, but I have to transition back to some kind of bent elbow swimming after that otherwise I can feel drag getting me.
You need serious upper body and arm strength to pull that off. I can manage it for the first 25 of a 50, but I have to transition back to some kind of bent elbow swimming after that otherwise I can feel drag getting me.
Otispunkmeyer said:
His coach Bob Bowman did acknowledge that at the US nationals they'd be competing in a virtual competition. Happily, the US nationals lag whats going on in Kazan, so he can see what times he's got to beat! Good to see him doing it!
After Le Clos won the 100m (50.5 I think) fly he made a dig at MP about him saying the fly had been really slow lately but not he had done a time MP hadn't done in 4 years so he would have to shut up. Day later MP did a 100m fly in 50.4Otispunkmeyer said:
(then again the aussies had their own freaks, like Thorpe, did you see the size of him at 17? huge).
He talked about that in his biography. He broke his ankle running through a park and had a massive cast. He continued to swim with the huge drag from the cast and bulked up massively.Its amazing the impact swimming has on muscle growth. I spent a fair bit of time in the gym lifting weights and never really put on muscle. Since starting swimming a couple of years ago I have put on quite a bit upper body. Especially in the shoulders and triceps.
944fan said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
His coach Bob Bowman did acknowledge that at the US nationals they'd be competing in a virtual competition. Happily, the US nationals lag whats going on in Kazan, so he can see what times he's got to beat! Good to see him doing it!
After Le Clos won the 100m (50.5 I think) fly he made a dig at MP about him saying the fly had been really slow lately but not he had done a time MP hadn't done in 4 years so he would have to shut up. Day later MP did a 100m fly in 50.4Otispunkmeyer said:
(then again the aussies had their own freaks, like Thorpe, did you see the size of him at 17? huge).
He talked about that in his biography. He broke his ankle running through a park and had a massive cast. He continued to swim with the huge drag from the cast and bulked up massively.Its amazing the impact swimming has on muscle growth. I spent a fair bit of time in the gym lifting weights and never really put on muscle. Since starting swimming a couple of years ago I have put on quite a bit upper body. Especially in the shoulders and triceps.
I think a lot of people are probably at risk of their bodies doing a bit of catabolism because they're just not eating enough and enough of the right things. Its alreet for people who make it to Peaty's level, but by then you know they've got nutritionists on their case, making sure they're properly fuelled.
Anyway.... Sun Yang didn't show for the 1500m. No one seems to know why. Official Chinese word is he had chest pains in the morning warm up or something so they pulled him. Other rumours are of an altercation between himself and a female Brazilian swimmer who was preparing for Brazilian nationals (though not actually swimming in the competition in Kazan anymore). Some say he pulled her leg in the pool, others say he full on punched her in the heat of an argument. Others mention arguing with Brazilian coaches on poolside. Brazilian coaches did report him to FINA, but they also say they don't believe its the reason for pulling out.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Anyway.... Sun Yang didn't show for the 1500m. No one seems to know why. Official Chinese word is he had chest pains in the morning warm up or something so they pulled him. Other rumours are of an altercation between himself and a female Brazilian swimmer who was preparing for Brazilian nationals (though not actually swimming in the competition in Kazan anymore). Some say he pulled her leg in the pool, others say he full on punched her in the heat of an argument. Others mention arguing with Brazilian coaches on poolside. Brazilian coaches did report him to FINA, but they also say they don't believe its the reason for pulling out.
Yes it is all very odd. He has also served a ban for dopping and was then awarded Top Male Swimmer. Great message.Question for the long time swimmers. I am currently on an enforced hiatus from the pool (corneal infection). Not sure how long it will be for, basically until the Drs tell me I can swim again.
What is the best way to maintain fitness whilst out of the pool? Running? I'm keeping up the dry land work to maintain strength and using exercise bands to do stroke mimicking exercises.
What is the best way to maintain fitness whilst out of the pool? Running? I'm keeping up the dry land work to maintain strength and using exercise bands to do stroke mimicking exercises.
My shoulders finally getting better now, but I did running while I couldn't swim properly. Seems to have been ok! Again I would imagine getting on a concept2 isn't a bad idea either because then at least you're using arms as well. I couldn't even really do any lifting in the gym because of it so was stuck on cardio or core work. I have been running with my OH though because it seems to be working for her to lose weight. So I tag along to keep her going. If I didn't have to do that I don't think I would!
I can swim further than I can run though. Running fitness is different to swim fitness... no replacement for pool time ultimately.
If you have some stretch cords or bands you can do some pull exercises that mimic swimming motion. That helps.
For exercises to do I'd hit up John G Mullen on YT, Gary Hall Snr at TheRaceClub (also YT) or if you want a book: Complete Conditioning for Swimming by a Dr Salo is a good book.
I can swim further than I can run though. Running fitness is different to swim fitness... no replacement for pool time ultimately.
If you have some stretch cords or bands you can do some pull exercises that mimic swimming motion. That helps.
For exercises to do I'd hit up John G Mullen on YT, Gary Hall Snr at TheRaceClub (also YT) or if you want a book: Complete Conditioning for Swimming by a Dr Salo is a good book.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 11th August 10:02
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 11th August 10:10
944fan said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Anyway.... Sun Yang didn't show for the 1500m. No one seems to know why. Official Chinese word is he had chest pains in the morning warm up or something so they pulled him. Other rumours are of an altercation between himself and a female Brazilian swimmer who was preparing for Brazilian nationals (though not actually swimming in the competition in Kazan anymore). Some say he pulled her leg in the pool, others say he full on punched her in the heat of an argument. Others mention arguing with Brazilian coaches on poolside. Brazilian coaches did report him to FINA, but they also say they don't believe its the reason for pulling out.
Yes it is all very odd. He has also served a ban for dopping and was then awarded Top Male Swimmer. Great message.To my mind such a method is far to simplistic. In other sports you can be man of the match without necessarily scoring the winning goals. You can be driver of the day without necessarily winning the race.
IMO It should have been Peaty or Guy. Peaty just showed how unburstable he was, anything Cameron VDB attempted to unsettle him was met with Peaty just swimming faster. Great to watch. Guy as well, that final 200 in the 4x200 deserves a swim of the meet at the very least (for the males).
for the females, its hard to see past Ledecky for any measure you care to choose. Lots of medals, lots of WR's, a top 8 time in the 800m whilst doing a 1500, and 8.07 for 800m individual isn't even of this planet. Criminally fast.
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