The Swimming Thread - Pool/OW
Discussion
Otispunkmeyer said:
Not sure if something like this is of interest to anyone?
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/swimmo-is-a-sma...
Swimmo... a smart watch for swimmers.
Now, personally, I think stuff like this is basically useless for some one like myself. My coaches in the past have tried numerous times to introduce things like HR monitors and noting things down on water proof pads etc. But in the end, a finger to the neck to count your pulse for 6 seconds (then x10, or 10 seconds then x6) is what we ended up falling back on. It works, its reliable, its fast and easy to do and its accurate enough.
Metrics such as stroke count, lap count, repeat times and even times for 25s or 50s are things a swimmer will already be counting and working with in their heads. I don't need a buzzer to tell me what my pace is, I've been doing it that long I know what my pace is just from the effort I am putting in. And if I need to, crafty sneaks at the clock are easily doable in most pools during a breath or something.
But the worst thing about watches and things like this, is that they just don't feel right in the water. They mess with your feel for the water. Its not just about what your hands are doing, its how the water feels as it flows over all parts of your body. You need to be able to feel which bits are creating lift, which bits are creating drag.
I remember sprinting with a HR monitor on. The chest strap basically slid down to my hips on the push off because the streamline changes the shape of your rib cage and the watch just made my left hand feel horrible every time it entered the water. Unless it was on very tight, water would get under the watch and feel like it was trying to lift it off your arm.
That last point is surely going to make or break this thing. It uses the green LED light or similar method that a lot of fitness trackers use. And reports from them would suggest they aren't particularly good when you start moving vigorously. I can only imagine that + water trying to rip the thing off your wrist will put paid to that functionality.
I've always used a Garmin Swim. It isn't as advanced as the Swimmo as it doesn't have the pacing or HR. Pacing I get with a Finis Tempo Trainer. Wearing a watch doesn't really bother me but then I only started swimming 2 years ago and have always worn one.http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/swimmo-is-a-sma...
Swimmo... a smart watch for swimmers.
Now, personally, I think stuff like this is basically useless for some one like myself. My coaches in the past have tried numerous times to introduce things like HR monitors and noting things down on water proof pads etc. But in the end, a finger to the neck to count your pulse for 6 seconds (then x10, or 10 seconds then x6) is what we ended up falling back on. It works, its reliable, its fast and easy to do and its accurate enough.
Metrics such as stroke count, lap count, repeat times and even times for 25s or 50s are things a swimmer will already be counting and working with in their heads. I don't need a buzzer to tell me what my pace is, I've been doing it that long I know what my pace is just from the effort I am putting in. And if I need to, crafty sneaks at the clock are easily doable in most pools during a breath or something.
But the worst thing about watches and things like this, is that they just don't feel right in the water. They mess with your feel for the water. Its not just about what your hands are doing, its how the water feels as it flows over all parts of your body. You need to be able to feel which bits are creating lift, which bits are creating drag.
I remember sprinting with a HR monitor on. The chest strap basically slid down to my hips on the push off because the streamline changes the shape of your rib cage and the watch just made my left hand feel horrible every time it entered the water. Unless it was on very tight, water would get under the watch and feel like it was trying to lift it off your arm.
That last point is surely going to make or break this thing. It uses the green LED light or similar method that a lot of fitness trackers use. And reports from them would suggest they aren't particularly good when you start moving vigorously. I can only imagine that + water trying to rip the thing off your wrist will put paid to that functionality.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 16th April 10:44
I like using it as it tracks total distance and splits and speed so it makes it easy to keep and log and see progress over time.
Up until a month ago I was really happy with the Garmin but recently it has started playing up and dropping lengths all the time. It used to drop one or two lengths in a 11Km week. It is now dropping a length per set. Quite interested in the Swimmo but will wait till its actually in production and there are some reviews of its efficiency.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Highway Star said:
Anyone keeping up with the Nationals? Adam Peaty world record and the first man under 58 for 100 breaststroke. Awesome and one of our best chances for gold at Rio.
Just about to come post the same myself. British swimming should really have had this event streamed but they didn't. Would have loved to have seen that 57.92 from Peaty. What a fricken unit that lad is. He has so much power left in that last 20, he doesn't seem to wilt, only get faster.There has been some awesome swims from the team over the last few days. Good to see Pavoni with a gold, he got his funding withdrawn sometime last year I think, but I'm glad he's showing them he's worth funding!
Really exciting performances, cannot wait to watch the world's in Russia!
Anyway, there is a spectator taken video of it here:
http://swimswam.com/race-video-watch-adam-peaty-br...
USA Swim Stats also posted those which is interesting:
"Over the last year the fastest 4 add up times from GBR are .37 faster than the best USA add ups in the 4x100 Medley: "
Due to work and other things I've ended up swimming 10 days in a row. Knackered now and my shoulders ache. 2 days rest for me this weekend.
The lake near work is opening today so will be getting down there next week. Its only about 14 degrees still but I'm expecting Coniston to be cold so want to get some exposure early on before the small lakes get above 18.
Been working on an high elbow / early vertical forearm as that was identified by my coach as needing work. Bought the Finis Fulcrum paddles to help but not sure if they are working. Finding it hard to switch and actually slowing down when i get it right. I guess from muscle memory and specific strength it will take time to adjust and see the benefit.
Anyone doing the FT Eton Dorney swim at the end of the month? My first proper race is not till June 20th but my swimming has been going so well I'm keen to test my performance in a race soon. Might enter the 3KM at Eton.
The lake near work is opening today so will be getting down there next week. Its only about 14 degrees still but I'm expecting Coniston to be cold so want to get some exposure early on before the small lakes get above 18.
Been working on an high elbow / early vertical forearm as that was identified by my coach as needing work. Bought the Finis Fulcrum paddles to help but not sure if they are working. Finding it hard to switch and actually slowing down when i get it right. I guess from muscle memory and specific strength it will take time to adjust and see the benefit.
Anyone doing the FT Eton Dorney swim at the end of the month? My first proper race is not till June 20th but my swimming has been going so well I'm keen to test my performance in a race soon. Might enter the 3KM at Eton.
I'm off for my first OW swim tonight. Lake is still hovering around the 13 degree mark so likely to be a bit parky.
The average temp for Coniston in September is 16 degrees +/- 2 so need some practice in the colder stuff. Had a panic attack in the cold Thames last year so looking forward to this :-(
Had some coaching since and have a technique for easing in to the water.
The average temp for Coniston in September is 16 degrees +/- 2 so need some practice in the colder stuff. Had a panic attack in the cold Thames last year so looking forward to this :-(
Had some coaching since and have a technique for easing in to the water.
Dimski said:
Completed the Dorney 10km 6 minutes quicker than last year, 2hrs 51mins. I've done less swimming this year and was worried about my shoulder, so I'm happy with that!
Well done. I almost entered the Dorney race but I have been struck down with some virus and haven't swam for 2 weeks and still feel s
t.Otispunkmeyer said:
Yeah I have great sympathy for anyone who has to do any kind of decent/half serious swimming in a public lane swim. The amount of tossers present really annoys. Here we even have a very fast lane, because this place being full of top rate swimmers, ex-swimmers, ex-tri-guys etc there has to be some kind of extra lane for them all to go in. Doesn't stop the douche bags who decide they can mix it with the big boys by trundling up and down on their backs kicking with a float basically being a mobile chicane!!!
Yeah people with no lane etiquette really take the fun out of swimming. M local pool is a nightmare for it. I have a pool near work which has 6 lanes, 1 easy access disabled lane, 2 slow, 2 medium and 1 fast. The people who go there are quite friendly and will happily move lanes if they are slower. We all move into the slow lane to do skulling and kicking also. Still get the occasional tosser but fewer than the other place.First buy when my lottery numbers come up Is a private pool.
My swim training has been a right mess recently. Holidays, then was ill for two weeks has just thrown me out of whack.
Started down at the lake 2 times a week. Doing one session focussing on starts, sighting, turns with some short laps and another just building the distance. Got some 10ks near the end of the summer so need to build the distance.
Started using a HRV app to track recovery. Still in the phase of finding a baseline but some interesting results. Be good to get some actual guidance as to when to go hard and when to ease back or take a rest.
Started down at the lake 2 times a week. Doing one session focussing on starts, sighting, turns with some short laps and another just building the distance. Got some 10ks near the end of the summer so need to build the distance.
Started using a HRV app to track recovery. Still in the phase of finding a baseline but some interesting results. Be good to get some actual guidance as to when to go hard and when to ease back or take a rest.
First proper OW race this Saturday. I did a couple a few years ago but was so ill prepared for the cold water I DNF'd one and breaststroked the other.
Anyway 3.8K race at Box End on Saturday. Not feeling 100% ready as I've been ill and training has tailed off a bit. Also still got a bit of an eye infection so if my goggles leak I've had it.
I've done 3.8K in training non stop but that was at an easy pace. Not sure how to pace myself for the race. Hopping for around the 1hr10min mark.
Anyway 3.8K race at Box End on Saturday. Not feeling 100% ready as I've been ill and training has tailed off a bit. Also still got a bit of an eye infection so if my goggles leak I've had it.
I've done 3.8K in training non stop but that was at an easy pace. Not sure how to pace myself for the race. Hopping for around the 1hr10min mark.
I know how you feel Greg66. Sighting is incredible difficult to do well I find and I notice the impact it can have on my rhythm and speed a lot
What is your stoke like? Is there any cross over on your hand entry or pull? This will cause you to swimming wonky. Also does your body snake when you swim? This generally will because of a cross over as well.
When I sight I aim for the crocodile eyes technique so just lifting my head slightly and eyes forward, mouth and nose still under water. This only works when conditions are relatively flat. Its also hard if the buoys are very small. The OW venue I train at has very small buoys and when they are 300m away you cant see them. So what I do is look for something behind them that is much taller and aim for that. A tall tree poking up etc. This means you have to lift your head less. Its not always possible but something to consider.
When I go to sight I keep the arm in the water straight and push down on the water to push my head up. I find this helps to keep my legs relative flat although they are going to drop slightly. Increase your kick when you sight slightly helps to keep them up.
I breathe on every two strokes (have to as I have such long arms) and I sight every 10 or so. I lift my head slightly, sight, then twist my head to breathe. Some people combine sighting and breathing together but I find this means you have to lift you head much further out of the water. I find sometimes it easy to sight on two or three concurrent strokes and keeping my head low rather than one big head up and see exactly where I am going but slowing me down.
A good drill my coach gets me to do, which you can do in the pool and OW is 4 up, 4 down. So swim normally and do 4 strokes head down, 4 stokes head up sighting. I place my water bottle in the centre of the lane for something to aim for. I do 12x25m of that.
Having said all that a lot of it is just down to trying a few ways and see what works best. Work on any stroke defects to ensure you can swim in a straight line, this will help by keeping you straight and also mean you have to sight less often. Add some sighting drills to your pool swims as well as OW.
Other technique of course is to find someone quick who looks like they know what they are doing and tickle their toes all the way to the finish ( or overtake them 100 m out because they are so knackered from towing you round :-) ).
What is your stoke like? Is there any cross over on your hand entry or pull? This will cause you to swimming wonky. Also does your body snake when you swim? This generally will because of a cross over as well.
When I sight I aim for the crocodile eyes technique so just lifting my head slightly and eyes forward, mouth and nose still under water. This only works when conditions are relatively flat. Its also hard if the buoys are very small. The OW venue I train at has very small buoys and when they are 300m away you cant see them. So what I do is look for something behind them that is much taller and aim for that. A tall tree poking up etc. This means you have to lift your head less. Its not always possible but something to consider.
When I go to sight I keep the arm in the water straight and push down on the water to push my head up. I find this helps to keep my legs relative flat although they are going to drop slightly. Increase your kick when you sight slightly helps to keep them up.
I breathe on every two strokes (have to as I have such long arms) and I sight every 10 or so. I lift my head slightly, sight, then twist my head to breathe. Some people combine sighting and breathing together but I find this means you have to lift you head much further out of the water. I find sometimes it easy to sight on two or three concurrent strokes and keeping my head low rather than one big head up and see exactly where I am going but slowing me down.
A good drill my coach gets me to do, which you can do in the pool and OW is 4 up, 4 down. So swim normally and do 4 strokes head down, 4 stokes head up sighting. I place my water bottle in the centre of the lane for something to aim for. I do 12x25m of that.
Having said all that a lot of it is just down to trying a few ways and see what works best. Work on any stroke defects to ensure you can swim in a straight line, this will help by keeping you straight and also mean you have to sight less often. Add some sighting drills to your pool swims as well as OW.
Other technique of course is to find someone quick who looks like they know what they are doing and tickle their toes all the way to the finish ( or overtake them 100 m out because they are so knackered from towing you round :-) ).
Greg66 said:
Speedwise, I'm a shade over 6m for 400m and a shade under 2.50 for 200m.
You and I are pretty identical in terms of pace. In a pool I am 6:04 for 400m, and 2:48 for 200m. At that pace we should be swimming fairly straight. Much easier in a pool though. One thing I find hard is often even in enclosed lakes you can get some strong currents which push you off course.Your post and my reply made me think I should do some serious sighting practice ahead of my race on Saturday. Here are my GPS results.
Ignoring the one in the middle - that was a short 200m loop and I ended up following someone with a pink hat and not a pink buoy. There isn't really a buoy at the end of the loop so I just head for the clubhouse/jetty which is why I have veered off a bit.
Conditions were flat so crocodile eyes worked well. My wetsuit was rubbing my neck again so I was trying to avoid sighting as much as possible. This is the course I was on
Bigger picture - http://s233012449.websitehome.co.uk/wp-content/upl...
The map is arse about face but I was swimming from the white start buoy to the first yellow then to the red marker in a triangle.
Otispunkmeyer said:
944fan said:
First proper OW race this Saturday. I did a couple a few years ago but was so ill prepared for the cold water I DNF'd one and breaststroked the other.
Anyway 3.8K race at Box End on Saturday. Not feeling 100% ready as I've been ill and training has tailed off a bit. Also still got a bit of an eye infection so if my goggles leak I've had it.
I've done 3.8K in training non stop but that was at an easy pace. Not sure how to pace myself for the race. Hopping for around the 1hr10min mark.
Not being a distance swimmer and definitely not an OW swimmer, I guess all I could suggest is not to go off too hot and just build into a pace. Its all too easy to go out quite fast on the first few 100 m and feel good only to have it hit you not long after. Oh and breathe lots.Anyway 3.8K race at Box End on Saturday. Not feeling 100% ready as I've been ill and training has tailed off a bit. Also still got a bit of an eye infection so if my goggles leak I've had it.
I've done 3.8K in training non stop but that was at an easy pace. Not sure how to pace myself for the race. Hopping for around the 1hr10min mark.
Its 3 and a bit laps and they have a big clock by the start finish so at least I will know how fast each lap is.
Otispunkmeyer said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
I just completed a channel relay swim, which I will not say I enjoyed but endured is a better description.
The channel is something else in terms of conditions, I swallowed enough seawater to drain the channel. It is a very harsh and totally unforgiving environment and I have a whole new level of respect for the solo guys.
The weird thing is getting back into a pool, it feels strange, I need to adjust back to pool swimming, I might do an open water swim(lake swim) this weekend to ease myself back into it.
If you do a lot of sea swimming I think you alter your stroke to compensate for the water being all over the place. In surf life saving we always used to comment how the guys who were good on the beach and in the surf were mostly awful once they got in the pool and vice versa. In the sea it seems much more forgiving of having a crabby looking stroke with a high stroke rate. You can't really have any glide or long-drawn out stroke and you have to often make a real effort to make sure your recovery portion is above the waves!The channel is something else in terms of conditions, I swallowed enough seawater to drain the channel. It is a very harsh and totally unforgiving environment and I have a whole new level of respect for the solo guys.
The weird thing is getting back into a pool, it feels strange, I need to adjust back to pool swimming, I might do an open water swim(lake swim) this weekend to ease myself back into it.
I have a 3KM sea swim coming up in July and I have a very long smooth stroke and have been trying to up my rate but its hard when you are my height
I did a 3.8KM race yesterday. Came 18th out of 36. 1:07:34 was my time. Was quite a strong field with the winner doing 47:43.
Was happy with my time overall. Still had plenty in tank at the end. Turned the final buoy level with another swimmer and was able to out sprint him over the final 100m or so.
Felt like I probably could have gone a bit faster. Was trying to pace myself over the first couple of laps so I didn't blow up but when I reached the 3rd lap I felt very fresh still. First time racing that distance so just need to learn my pacing better.
Was happy with my time overall. Still had plenty in tank at the end. Turned the final buoy level with another swimmer and was able to out sprint him over the final 100m or so.
Felt like I probably could have gone a bit faster. Was trying to pace myself over the first couple of laps so I didn't blow up but when I reached the 3rd lap I felt very fresh still. First time racing that distance so just need to learn my pacing better.
krallicious said:
Good work with the race but 47 minutes for 3.8k is just silly!
I managed 2.3k in 45 minutes this morning. Starting to get back into the swing of things now but I am stilling finding that I need to get the first km out of the way before I can settle down and find my stroke/pace. Strangley, the first km is the slowest.
I know. Their pace was 1:15/100m for the whole race. My coach (who is obviously a lot faster than me) said that some of the 3.8Kers passed him on the fast lap when he was doing the 5K, and the 3.8K race started about 70m further back, so they were going some.I managed 2.3k in 45 minutes this morning. Starting to get back into the swing of things now but I am stilling finding that I need to get the first km out of the way before I can settle down and find my stroke/pace. Strangley, the first km is the slowest.
My goal for next year is to break that 1hr mark. Think I can probably do that.
I know what you mean about taking time to settle down. I find this much worse in Open Water, just getting used to your pace and the wetsuit. My shoulder hurts for the first 10 mins as well. I am so worried about going out too fast that I inevitably go too slow to start with.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Well thats me out the water for a while (pending physio that is).
Had a sore shoulder for a while, I think caused by trying to do some gardening! But then I went wake boarding at the weekend for a friends birthday and just wasn't thinking. First time wake boarding so we were on the knee boards. First corner, lines goes slack and then suddenly rips up tension again. Almost pulled my arms out their sockets! Wrenched my shoulder pretty good.
Tried to swim on tuesday and it just wasn't happening. Anything above just cruising felt uncomfortable.
Sorry to hear that. Hopefully its nothing major and you will recover quickly.Had a sore shoulder for a while, I think caused by trying to do some gardening! But then I went wake boarding at the weekend for a friends birthday and just wasn't thinking. First time wake boarding so we were on the knee boards. First corner, lines goes slack and then suddenly rips up tension again. Almost pulled my arms out their sockets! Wrenched my shoulder pretty good.
Tried to swim on tuesday and it just wasn't happening. Anything above just cruising felt uncomfortable.
I had a crap race at the weekend. Was a 3Km sea swim.
Started off great, calm conditions, got out towards the front group and was swimming strong. Turned at the first buoy fine, then turned at the next. The wind had picked up a lot by this point and although I was swimming with the tide there was a lot of swell and chop. Got a load of sea water swallowed, throat was burning, lips were sore. Got slapped by a couple of waves in succession and was struggling. Started doing head up breastroke which worked until I turned again and now into the tide I was swimming on the spot. Back in to freestyle and powered through. End of first lap, decided to turn into shore and DNF. I really felt if I had carried on I would have needed fishing out by the lifeguards on the second lap.
Really wasn't prepared for how different sea swimming is to lake swimming.
Started off great, calm conditions, got out towards the front group and was swimming strong. Turned at the first buoy fine, then turned at the next. The wind had picked up a lot by this point and although I was swimming with the tide there was a lot of swell and chop. Got a load of sea water swallowed, throat was burning, lips were sore. Got slapped by a couple of waves in succession and was struggling. Started doing head up breastroke which worked until I turned again and now into the tide I was swimming on the spot. Back in to freestyle and powered through. End of first lap, decided to turn into shore and DNF. I really felt if I had carried on I would have needed fishing out by the lifeguards on the second lap.
Really wasn't prepared for how different sea swimming is to lake swimming.
krallicious said:
Shame about the DNF but things don't always go to plan. How much sea swimming did you do before the race?
Ahem. fk all! That explains it.Had done loads of OW in a lake but was ill prepared for it. I had also been ill for about 6 weeks on and off and had hardly trained. When the current got strong I had nothing left to fight it.
Lesson learnt
Greg66 said:
944fan said:
Their pace was 1:15/100m for the whole race.
Jesus, that is mental. I did a light drill based session yesterday and as I wasn't tired decided to go balls out for the final 100m - absolutely full bore no holds barred anaerobic swim like there's a shark behind you. 1m 17s. And man, was I fked at the end of 100m!king big rest at the end of that 100m.Glad you are starting to recovery. Shoulders can be a bugger. I hit mine about two years ago and it still occasionally has a twinge.
I am sure you already know all this but this book has lots of good injury prevention / recovery exercises for shoulders:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Conditioning-Swim...
I am sure you already know all this but this book has lots of good injury prevention / recovery exercises for shoulders:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Conditioning-Swim...
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