The Swimming Thread - Pool/OW

[944fan]

Had my first swim back after quite a while off. Wasn't too bad, felt hard work though, especially in my arms. I've entered a half ironman this summer, not concerned about the swim at all but certainly need some time to get my fitness and "feel" back. Run on the other hand is a problem.

In other news Katie Leadecky has broken her 800m WR again at the Arena series in the states. She now has the top 8 fast 800m times of all time and 9 in the top ten. Amazing.

Phelps beat Lochte in the 200 IM as well.

Going to be a good Olympics, if you are an American.

[944fan]

briangriffin said:

I'm a bit of a swimming newby with a big distance swim looming in 6 months. Did my longest total distance recently (1KM) with regular stops. I find i'm getting out of breath quickly.

any tips to improve my breathing?

i've had 1 on 1 coaching in a small pool and he doesnt seem to concerned on my technique im just worrying on the whole having to stop every 50M for a proper breather. I'm fit from running etc but could it be that i'm also getting out of breath because i'm not swim fit and using different muscles when swimming?

any advice is appriciated

If you are having to stop every 50m but your coach doesn't think there is a problem with your technique then I would find another coach.

Firstly are you fully breathing out underwater? Failing to exhale completely when your face is in the water means you turn to breathe and have to breathe out before taking a breath, and you will never get a full breath that way.

Second, what's your arm turnover like (stroke per minute) and how often are you breathing (e.g every 2/3/4 strokes). I am very tall with long arms and my turnover is quite low, I have to breathe every two strokes or I will get out of breath quickly. If you are taking a lot of strokes between breaths you could try reducing them or focus on increasing your stroke rate.

Third. What is your pacing like? Possibly because you are already fit you are setting off too fast. Swim fitness is quite specific and there isn't much cross over from running.

Are you creating a lot of drag when you swim? Sinky legs and/or too high a head position.

How long did it take you to do 1km and what is the bis swim you have ahead of you?

[944fan]

briangriffin said:

Coaching i'd had was primarily for my stroke (as i was basically starting from scratch), Had a recent lesson with the coach to concentrate on just my breathing which has worked wonders, I think it was half lack of swim fitness and half me snatching a breath. My fitness background is generally from running and combat sports so high intensity stuff. Not a lot in the way for facilities where i live so the lessons ive had are in a 10M pool so hard for the coach to get a proper judge on my breathing in his defence (there is a 25M pool but not for hire and they have their own coaches which dont give u the required 1 on 1 training)

i'm a 2 stroke breather now which seems to have worked in my most recent 1km test. i've gone from 5o mins + (obv including my stops for breathers) to just over 30 mins, still a couple of stops but the confidence is there now that i can get there with no stops with plenty of pool time.

My pace seems to be pretty consistant at around 3 mins for 100m, even if i'm pushing it or taking it easy so obv from there i guess when pushing it i'm sacrificing good technique for arm turnover. The other thing ive been told is i dont always finish my stroke completely and get the full push underwater.

Legs may be a bit sinky too i think and i do find my quad muscles do get quite tired quickly. is there perhaps something i'm doing wrong there?


The swim I have ahead is a 2.4 Mile open water one for Long course weekend in Wales. That 1KM in just over 30 mins is the first time i have even come close to enjoying swimming.

The kick should come from the hip with a slight bend in the knee. The kick is about keeping your body in line and not getting much propulsion. If your legs are tiring it could be that you are kicking too hard. Look up "side kick drill" it is a good drill to build a flutter kick.

With regards to not pushing you hand back far enough, try doing some lengths where you brush your thumb on your thigh, pushing past the hip. This will build the muscle memory to push back fully.

Sinky legs is often caused by bad head position. When you turn to breathe you need to keep you head partially in the water. Split screen google effect - one google in the water, one out. This keeps your head and body level and prevents the legs sinking. If you are breathing every 2 then any problem here is going to cause you a lot of issues.

So much of swimming is technique and small changes can make a big difference. At your speed it is all technique that is holding you back and not fitness. Once it starts coming together you will notice big differences.

Good luck with your swim. Make sure to get some practice open water swims in before hand to get used to the cold and your wetsuit.

[944fan]

briangriffin said:

Thanks mate, going to try and make the pool tomorrow and practice these ready for an attempt at the mile on Thursday (mainly to win a bet with the missus lol). Hoping to see big improvements in my pace soon, i'm not looking to win medals etc with my distance swim but the less time in the water the better for me lol

The more you swim the more you get a feel for the water so you will start to get faster.

Take a look at swim Smooth website, loads of info on there.

Also google skulling. Its a good drill for working on your feel and swim strength.

[944fan]

boyse7en said:

(any tips to stop fogging, or do I need new goggles?)

We can put a man on the moon but can't stop googles from fking fogging up. You can buy a spray to put on the inside of the lenses. Some people spit on the them.

Better googles do it less but they still will a bit. I have Speedo Fastskin 3 Elites and they rarely fog up massively. Usually only when in a cold lake and really going for it. Advice given by manufacturers is to always keep them in the little pouch they come in to stop them getting scratch and damaging the anti fog coating. Not sure if that's BS but I always do.

I had a video session with the coach at the weekend. Really interesting to see yourself swimming. Looks slower than I expected. Really interesting thing picked up with my reach. My hand is going in well and good reach but my fingers are pointing up and putting the breaks on. One hand is even re-breaking the water. Need to working on spearing a bit deeper and pointing my fingers down.

Good workout this morning. Mixed drills then 4x100, 1x200, 4x100, 1x300, 4x100, 1x400 all at CSS pace. Was hard to keep up with the beeper on the 400.

[944fan]

Otispunkmeyer said:

Fastskin 3 elites? Fancy!

Worth at least 0.0001 seconds over 100m

Marginal gains and all that :-)

[944fan]

boyse7en said:

Did another 1000m timed session this morning.
20:31 so a reasonable improvement. Included a couple of passing pauses for other users, so probably 5-10 seconds longer than a clear run

Great work. Dropping about 40 seconds of 1Km in 2 weeks is good going.

I am really struggling with motivation at the minute. Need a good clear run of a couple of weeks to really get back into it.

[944fan]

FunkyNige said:

Mentioned earlier in this thread that I was doing the Sport Relief 5k, well I did it in 1:48 which I'm pretty happy with as I ran 10k in the morning and haven't trained properly in a few weeks due to a cold. Plus I got cramp in my calf 3/4 of the way through which meant a few lengths with only one leg.
Reckon I can get that down to 1:45 if I learn how to do tumble turns and possibly 1:40 if I could concentrate on my stroke for the whole time but it'll be another year before I give it a go. Really need to get my arse in gear and swim more though!

Well done. 1:48 for a 5K is a great effort, even more so since you had already run a 10k.

Swimming 5K in a pool must have been soul destroying though.

[944fan]

If you want indoor stuff you will need to join an ASA Masters class. There a plenty of events and I think you race against people who are the same level as you, rather than be lumped in with someone the same age who has swam all their life.

The meets will be the standard pool distances though, so 50, 100, 200, 400 etc Breast/Free/Fly/Back.

Not sure if there would be a 1500m free.

Otherwise if your mates run and one has a bike there are a few sprint tris that are in pools. Usually only 400m but you could enter those as a relay team

[944fan]

Otispunkmeyer said:

Yep thats what we heard. Though no specific pool named, just find one and warm up in it. I don't think the training pool will be 49 m. I mean I won't be surprised if its not absolutely 50 m like the competition pool, but I don't expect it to be way out. Just out of the spec for the times to count. I guess they could still hold races, it doesn't matter to the results, but there maybe the caveat that the times won't stand.

Not relevant but reminded me of it. In Ian Thorpe's biography he was talking about one event where he was told by an official that the lane they were in for the relay was slightly longer than the one their rivals were swimming in. Can't remember which event it was now. But he was making the point that they had to swim slightly further.

[944fan]

Considering an OW race this Saturday at Box End. Bit unsure as there have been a couple of snow showers last two days and its been cold. Thinking the water might be chuffing cold.

Was going to be a wimp and just do the 750m anyway, but lake temp is likely to be 11 degrees so not sure I even want do that.

[944fan]

Did a time trial this morning. Another 5 seconds off my 400m SB. Only 18 seconds away from my all time PB.

Although its not what I am training for I would really like to finally dip under the 6 min mark this year.

[944fan]

Europeans start today. Anyone going to be watching? I always forgot Eurosport is free (I mean doesn't need full Sky sports), there is loads of stuff to watch on there.

I've been watching the diving over the weekend. Getting really into that. Understanding the scoring and everything now and can watch a dive and know if its good or not before the judges score it :-)

I assume the big British names are all at the Euros? Be good to she what shape Proud and Peaty are in as its only a couple of months till Rio

[944fan]

Yes my coach is doing a couple of events at the masters, sounds like a right shambles.

Watching the diving it looked pretty empty in the stands. Just looked at the tickets. Plenty for sale for Friday evening session, but £55 for an adult in normal seats! Swimming aint the most popular sport, you'd think they were drop the price a bit and try and get some bums on seats.

I went to the anniversary games at the Olympic park in 2013. Big named event (Bolt, Ennis, Farrah). Tickets for the finish line were only £105 for that and plenty of tickets were £16.

[944fan]

Stands were 3/4 empty for last nights session. Between races you could hear a mouse fart.

Peaty is looking good was a second ahead of everyone else in the semi for 100m breast.

The commentary on Eurosport leaves a lot to be desired. Some Scottish chap talking utter crap and some woman who sounds a lot like Becky Adlington but was being called Jo by the other chap.

Half way through the 400m they didn't talk for about 2 mins. Was a blessed relief.

[944fan]

She is the better of the two commentators but has an annoying habit of saying "you know" at the start and end of every sentence.

Yeah I wondered about James Guy, wasn't prepped at then carried out with his training plan straight after. Very odd.

It doesn't look all that good for Rio does it. The Americans have a very strong team, Phelps and Lochte look good (seen the latest Speedo ad - Lochte looks fking huge), Franklin looks like she is in good shape and Ledkey can;t seemingly go near a pool without breaking a world record.

Plus no doubt there will be dopped up Ruskies to spoil some fun :-)

[944fan]

Yes Hosszu is very impressive. I realise there is an enormous gulf in everything but I am fked for hours after one race, recovering that quickly is amazing.

[944fan]

Great swim from Peaty.

Watching on BBC2, nice to have becky and Mark doing the analysis but BBC, I have said this before and will say it again, please don't put Helen Skelton on telly again. She is appalling. Bring back Claire Balding

[944fan]

Hosszu continues to pretty much dominate. Was pipped in the 100 back by a championship record having not long won the 200Im by a clear body length.

Was on the podium getting her IM medal wearing her cap as she then had to go straight into the 100 back.

Good win for Murdoch, brits doing slightly better but can still see a lot of them being shoved down the results table come Rio by the US and China.

There is a journalist/analyst chap who uses a computer programme to estimate medal wins at the Olympics by analyse the form of all atheletes ( not just swimming). Apparently it is pretty accurate and got 16 out of 20 right for London. Anyway the system is currently predicting the US to win the medal table and also showing 5 medals for Phelps, including 4 golds.

ETA - correct 6 medals, 5 gold:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/olympics/phelps...

[944fan]

Otispunkmeyer said:

Phelps has just had a baby though, so perhaps that might take the edge off him. I don't expect him to get 5 golds. I expect he will be top 3 for all his events (not including relays, they may well be nailed on already) but I think individual golds for him are going to be extremely difficult to come by. They're not going to be as easy as some where in the past for him.

Check this interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd3OhqOgBj4

Says he has doubled his squat in a year and his BF is down from 13% to 5%. Seems like desire and attitude are in the right place which he didn't have in London. Just his age going against him.