The Swimming Thread - Pool/OW
Discussion
Otispunkmeyer said:
Anyway last nights main set actually hurt. Tri guys need not apply 
12 x 125 as
50 fly, 25 back, 25 breast 25 free
25 fly, 50 back, 25 breast, 25 free
25 fly, 25 back, 50 breast, 25 free
25 fly, 25 back, 25 breast, 50 free
They were on 2:20 which is quite generous, but we were getting a good 30 seconds rest. So the pace was decent. I do like IM sets though, really enjoyable.
A few guys got out less than half way through, the lack of freestyle really hurts their pace.
Love sets like that. I do miss swimming at the moment 12 x 125 as
50 fly, 25 back, 25 breast 25 free
25 fly, 50 back, 25 breast, 25 free
25 fly, 25 back, 50 breast, 25 free
25 fly, 25 back, 25 breast, 50 free
They were on 2:20 which is quite generous, but we were getting a good 30 seconds rest. So the pace was decent. I do like IM sets though, really enjoyable.
A few guys got out less than half way through, the lack of freestyle really hurts their pace.
Sundays Set:
Not entirely sure on the W/UP as we were late arriving! But it was 3 x 300 something + 6 x 50.
Main set was
8 x 125 with fins as 25 max on 45, 100 as 75 fly kick 25 swim.
These were on 2:20 I think which was plenty of rest (after the 1st 25, you have 95 seconds to do the 100).
Then
5 x 150 fc steady on 2.30
Usually I get drawn into swimming too fast to swim really neatly. This time I went to the back and cruised, thought about the stroke and decided to build the fly kicks off each wall (so started with 1 fly kick on the push, 2 kicks on the next turn, 3 on the next etc). Result? coming in on around 1.55 and feeling good. Usually I won't be much faster than that and will have swum all scruffy!
5 x 150 choice on 2.40 Build by 50.
Decided to do this backstroke and in much the same way as the above 150's. Still attempted to build through the 50's but I don't think there was a massively noticeable change in speed! Generally coming in on somewhere around the 2:05 mark.
8 x 25 as 1 easy, 1 max from a dive.
some swim down.
Also on saturday night we were at the Leicestershire Winter League final (unbeknownst to us until we got there). We'd scraped in in 8th, we had to race GB level guys from Penguins and Braunstone... We did get creamed in some events, but we didn't come last overall which was good. I was at least happy with my swims, 24.7 for 50 free (first swim, so cold, always need one to get going) and 64 for the 100 back. I am awaiting my split for the 50 breast in the IM, but as breast is my worst stroke I am expecting it to be shocking!
As an aside, while I was happy with my 100 back time, the winner was some 2 seconds a length faster than me! And the female open winner would have come 3rd in the mens race with her 60 flat!
Not entirely sure on the W/UP as we were late arriving! But it was 3 x 300 something + 6 x 50.
Main set was
8 x 125 with fins as 25 max on 45, 100 as 75 fly kick 25 swim.
These were on 2:20 I think which was plenty of rest (after the 1st 25, you have 95 seconds to do the 100).
Then
5 x 150 fc steady on 2.30
Usually I get drawn into swimming too fast to swim really neatly. This time I went to the back and cruised, thought about the stroke and decided to build the fly kicks off each wall (so started with 1 fly kick on the push, 2 kicks on the next turn, 3 on the next etc). Result? coming in on around 1.55 and feeling good. Usually I won't be much faster than that and will have swum all scruffy!
5 x 150 choice on 2.40 Build by 50.
Decided to do this backstroke and in much the same way as the above 150's. Still attempted to build through the 50's but I don't think there was a massively noticeable change in speed! Generally coming in on somewhere around the 2:05 mark.
8 x 25 as 1 easy, 1 max from a dive.
some swim down.
Also on saturday night we were at the Leicestershire Winter League final (unbeknownst to us until we got there). We'd scraped in in 8th, we had to race GB level guys from Penguins and Braunstone... We did get creamed in some events, but we didn't come last overall which was good. I was at least happy with my swims, 24.7 for 50 free (first swim, so cold, always need one to get going) and 64 for the 100 back. I am awaiting my split for the 50 breast in the IM, but as breast is my worst stroke I am expecting it to be shocking!
As an aside, while I was happy with my 100 back time, the winner was some 2 seconds a length faster than me! And the female open winner would have come 3rd in the mens race with her 60 flat!
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Monday 16th March 10:42
Your times are a bit different to mine! I'm improving though.
Last November I did 42 seconds for 50 breast (50m pool). Last week I did 37.80, which was part of an IM relay so not official, but still I was happy. The club record for my age group is 37:20. So I'm moving in the right direction.
Next step is to improve my fly kick. I simply rely on my upper body strength to swim fly, which is good for 50m but not much more. It also means I can't do it slowly, and run into the back of people in training. I would like to be more relaxed when swimming fly, and for that I think I need to go back to basics and get the kick right first. Not easy though!
Last November I did 42 seconds for 50 breast (50m pool). Last week I did 37.80, which was part of an IM relay so not official, but still I was happy. The club record for my age group is 37:20. So I'm moving in the right direction.
Next step is to improve my fly kick. I simply rely on my upper body strength to swim fly, which is good for 50m but not much more. It also means I can't do it slowly, and run into the back of people in training. I would like to be more relaxed when swimming fly, and for that I think I need to go back to basics and get the kick right first. Not easy though!
I'm the same with fly. Not that my legs don't do anything, but its all upper body power and turn over. I can crack off a pretty decent 50 (nearly into the 26's!) but I can't turn round and do another 50 to complete the 100. My arms will simply turn into lead balloons.
Fly is odd really, for ages I have believed its one of those strokes you can either do or you can't (can't as in you can have a good short stab at it) and no amount of practice or training will say other wise. Just something in the way of how your body naturally can move.
At my old club, we all used to do the same. The same meters, same amount of freestyle, breast, fly, back. Land training, the lot, everything the same. And yet, half of my friends could bosh up and down doing fly until the cows came home and the rest of us were struggling to make a set of 6 x 50 without the wheels falling off. We all had the same training, mostly all the same speed at freestyle. So what was different?
Fly is odd really, for ages I have believed its one of those strokes you can either do or you can't (can't as in you can have a good short stab at it) and no amount of practice or training will say other wise. Just something in the way of how your body naturally can move.
At my old club, we all used to do the same. The same meters, same amount of freestyle, breast, fly, back. Land training, the lot, everything the same. And yet, half of my friends could bosh up and down doing fly until the cows came home and the rest of us were struggling to make a set of 6 x 50 without the wheels falling off. We all had the same training, mostly all the same speed at freestyle. So what was different?
I went through a period of doing a lit of swimming. I think I clocked 110 miles in the pool and open water one year.
Sadly, I was never a club swimmer, so my technique isn't perfect, but I do have good stamina.
I've done a few London Triathlons and several F3 events open water races, which I've really enjoyed.
At my best, I could do 24m for an open water mile and similar for the pool. If I was to get in the pool now, I'd probably struggle to hit 30 minutes for a mile.
I still do the Swimathon each year. First year I did it (12 years ago) I did it in 1hr 31 for 5k and last year was 1hr 40, which isn't too bad considering I'd done no training and I'm probably two stone heavier.
Best open water performance was 5th out of 30 and I wasn't that fit then either. I could have made the podium with a bit more effort and preparation! Also managed 19th out 90 at Eton.
I regret not getting into club swimming when I was younger. I recon I could have been a decent long distance swimmer and obviously I'd have got good technique. I recon my technique isn't fixable now.
No matter what state my body is in, I've always had the ability to get in the water and swim. My mother organised a small swimathon when I was in my early 20s. I was the first in the water and last out ad I clocked 6 miles. Still quite proud of that.
I want to return to swimming as my long term goal is to swim the channel when I'm 40. Will it happen? I don't know, but I would self fund the swim and aim to raise £5k for a local charity. I can't breath both sides, which would need rectifying, but I think its one of the ultimate challenges.
Writing this has prompted me to sign up for one of the open water races
Sadly, I was never a club swimmer, so my technique isn't perfect, but I do have good stamina.
I've done a few London Triathlons and several F3 events open water races, which I've really enjoyed.
At my best, I could do 24m for an open water mile and similar for the pool. If I was to get in the pool now, I'd probably struggle to hit 30 minutes for a mile.
I still do the Swimathon each year. First year I did it (12 years ago) I did it in 1hr 31 for 5k and last year was 1hr 40, which isn't too bad considering I'd done no training and I'm probably two stone heavier.
Best open water performance was 5th out of 30 and I wasn't that fit then either. I could have made the podium with a bit more effort and preparation! Also managed 19th out 90 at Eton.
I regret not getting into club swimming when I was younger. I recon I could have been a decent long distance swimmer and obviously I'd have got good technique. I recon my technique isn't fixable now.
No matter what state my body is in, I've always had the ability to get in the water and swim. My mother organised a small swimathon when I was in my early 20s. I was the first in the water and last out ad I clocked 6 miles. Still quite proud of that.
I want to return to swimming as my long term goal is to swim the channel when I'm 40. Will it happen? I don't know, but I would self fund the swim and aim to raise £5k for a local charity. I can't breath both sides, which would need rectifying, but I think its one of the ultimate challenges.
Writing this has prompted me to sign up for one of the open water races
technique can be fixed regardless of age!
It does help to have someone watch you though otherwise you're mostly in the dark about what your hands are doing!
For distance I would focus on keeping a high elbow, starting early in the stroke. Hand entry should be fingers straight down (no thumb first). Stroke should be hip driven, which also means you need a decent kick but allows a slower stroke rate.
A good place to have a look at these things is a YT channel called "TheRaceClub". Its got some great insights on technique and is done by Gary Hall Snr.
It does help to have someone watch you though otherwise you're mostly in the dark about what your hands are doing!
For distance I would focus on keeping a high elbow, starting early in the stroke. Hand entry should be fingers straight down (no thumb first). Stroke should be hip driven, which also means you need a decent kick but allows a slower stroke rate.
A good place to have a look at these things is a YT channel called "TheRaceClub". Its got some great insights on technique and is done by Gary Hall Snr.
krallicious said:
First swim after finally clearing my cold. Felt like hard work and only managed just over 2.6k in 50 minutes but it was good to get in the pool after missing 3 weeks.
That first swim after even a short period off feels like you are dragging a dustbin behind you. I find I get back into the swing of things after a couple of sessions.The Tri season must be starting soon. It was 8 to a lane this morning. Few fatties with M dot tattoos clogging up the fast lane.
944fan said:
krallicious said:
First swim after finally clearing my cold. Felt like hard work and only managed just over 2.6k in 50 minutes but it was good to get in the pool after missing 3 weeks.
That first swim after even a short period off feels like you are dragging a dustbin behind you. I find I get back into the swing of things after a couple of sessions.The Tri season must be starting soon. It was 8 to a lane this morning. Few fatties with M dot tattoos clogging up the fast lane.
It advocates doing lots of short swims, on decent rest at race pace (so not necessarily 100% max effort all the time) with good technique. The idea is to have the times set so that you do actually fail to hit them at some point as well. Its not training to failure in the sense that you physically can't move no more, but getting tired enough that you drop off the race pace.
The argument for it is that doing lots of lower intensity swimming simply doesn't prepare you for racing, especially from a technique stand point. and doing routine sprint sets as part of normal training is not much use either. Yes it builds base fitness, but then race fitness is different again...different systems at play.
I can certainly understand the technique bit, a lot of swimmers show good technique in training and it all goes to pieces in the race. Its why I think using fins in speed sets is good because you can feel in your hands and on your body, much higher resistance when moving much faster. You then know which areas to focus on to try reduce drag. Drag is the key to speed, if you have a choice of improving power or reducing drag, in the pool reducing drag is the winner every time. Density of water and drag forces square proportionality to speed is the killer.
Apparently a lot of American coaches are switching to USRPT and I believe there are few trying it in the UK. A young lad racing at the last weekend, who went 51 for 100 free without so much as being out of breath apparently trains very little in the pool in a traditional sense. Its all short and fast and there is a healthy amount of gym time. IIRC Mark Foster had a similar approach.
I think the tide is turning from quantity to much higher quality with reduced quantity.
Some links:
http://coachsci.sdsu.edu/swim/bullets/energy39.pdf
http://coachsci.sdsu.edu/swim/bullets/ultra40a.pdf
http://coachsci.sdsu.edu/swim/bullets/50%20QandA.p...
No love for the swimming thread? :P
Had some good sessions over the past few days. Always the case when laying off the gym work (preparing for PhD viva so cut back on the gym, kept the swimming). But I think I have improved some things.
Have made a concious effort to improve turns and what I have been doing is doing a lot of fly kick, especially in warm ups, so that I can get my ankles warm and flexible. But in sets of 50's I've been concentrating on tight streamline, head down, and 4-5 kicks off the walls. On longer swims I have been building by length, so 1 kick on 1st turn, 2 on 2nd etc, usually get to 4 or 5 then fail or find that I am coming to surface slower than swim speed. So then I drop back down to 1 kick again and repeat. Gets very hard on 200 m + swims.
However I think I am getting better and its a right eye-opener when swimming next to someone who is matching your pace and then you come out the turn more than a body in front. For the moment as well I am not swimming the swim at my usual pace, keeping something back so I can keep doing the U/W on the turns. But I am finding I can pretty much cruise around and keep doing the same times I always was. Definitely seen the light here. Did 15 x 75's the other night and whilst I didn't have the motivation to do the proper 100 PB - 15% time (which was I think, 47 seconds). I managed all of them on around 49 without really going great licks on the swimming portion.
Don't know why I didn't pick this up earlier, when I was younger I don't think I had the strength to do it properly and our coach tried to force everyone to do 6 kicks on all turns. I could see what he was trying to do, but at the time, by the time I'd done 2 kicks I was already having to speed back up to swimming pace. So it was pointless doing 6. Had that mindset for a long time.
Second epiphany has come in backstroke. Always loved backstroke and when I was training properly I was quite good at it. Then I switched to surf lifesaving (which is all freestyle) and never did backstroke properly again. Coming back to it I have found I have never been as fast as I used to be (in other strokes I am now the same or faster!). For ages now I was convinced it was my hands... arm position all wrong, poor catch, hands not entering above the shoulder.
Then I watched some videos of Junya Koga on TheRaceClub (Youtube) and Gary Hall Sr. was talking about head position and arms. Hand should enter little finger first (standard) and the main pull/push should see your upper and lower arm with around 120deg bend. The first thing that struck me was, having watched recent videos of my own backstroke, I was doing nothing different to Koga.
Then he moved on to head position. Gary mentions that a lot of swimmers swim backstroke with the head tilted forward. It helps you see where you are a bit better and allows you to get a bit more power from the stroke because of the relative position of the shoulder. However, doing this presents the neck and upper shoulders to the water and creates drag. What you should be doing, is having the head tilted back, so that there is a bow wave coming over your face on every hand entry. You can't see where you are as well (I used the lanerope as a guide) and you feel like you can't quite the same strength into the stroke. But the complete lack of pressure on the upper shoulders, its like night and day!
Been getting used to the new head position and on thursday at the end of the session we had 2 x 100 m max.
Did the first one freestyle and set off 50 m behind a friend to pace his second 50. I felt good after the 1st 50 so carried on for the second and came back in 1.05. Managed 4-5 kicks on turns, started from a push and hadn't gone flat on the 1st 50. I felt pretty fresh after that!
Did a recovery swim and then did the second one backstroke. Managed a 1.08 with the new head position and 4-5 kicks on the turns. This was a revelation, don't think I have ever swum that fast for backstroke in training and I didn't feel totally bushed after it either. Just a strong, controlled swim...still some 5 seconds off my best recent time, but for the circumstances, a good swim.
I can't wait to actually do a race with my new technique!
Also got fly technique to work on which is focused on the breathing. Not lifting the shoulders out the water to breath, but extending the head/neck to face forward to breath and then bringing it back down to the chest once the hands go in. Keeps you flat in the water, reduces drag because you're presenting less of the chest to the water and means you aren't wasting energy driving upwards.
Had some good sessions over the past few days. Always the case when laying off the gym work (preparing for PhD viva so cut back on the gym, kept the swimming). But I think I have improved some things.
Have made a concious effort to improve turns and what I have been doing is doing a lot of fly kick, especially in warm ups, so that I can get my ankles warm and flexible. But in sets of 50's I've been concentrating on tight streamline, head down, and 4-5 kicks off the walls. On longer swims I have been building by length, so 1 kick on 1st turn, 2 on 2nd etc, usually get to 4 or 5 then fail or find that I am coming to surface slower than swim speed. So then I drop back down to 1 kick again and repeat. Gets very hard on 200 m + swims.
However I think I am getting better and its a right eye-opener when swimming next to someone who is matching your pace and then you come out the turn more than a body in front. For the moment as well I am not swimming the swim at my usual pace, keeping something back so I can keep doing the U/W on the turns. But I am finding I can pretty much cruise around and keep doing the same times I always was. Definitely seen the light here. Did 15 x 75's the other night and whilst I didn't have the motivation to do the proper 100 PB - 15% time (which was I think, 47 seconds). I managed all of them on around 49 without really going great licks on the swimming portion.
Don't know why I didn't pick this up earlier, when I was younger I don't think I had the strength to do it properly and our coach tried to force everyone to do 6 kicks on all turns. I could see what he was trying to do, but at the time, by the time I'd done 2 kicks I was already having to speed back up to swimming pace. So it was pointless doing 6. Had that mindset for a long time.
Second epiphany has come in backstroke. Always loved backstroke and when I was training properly I was quite good at it. Then I switched to surf lifesaving (which is all freestyle) and never did backstroke properly again. Coming back to it I have found I have never been as fast as I used to be (in other strokes I am now the same or faster!). For ages now I was convinced it was my hands... arm position all wrong, poor catch, hands not entering above the shoulder.
Then I watched some videos of Junya Koga on TheRaceClub (Youtube) and Gary Hall Sr. was talking about head position and arms. Hand should enter little finger first (standard) and the main pull/push should see your upper and lower arm with around 120deg bend. The first thing that struck me was, having watched recent videos of my own backstroke, I was doing nothing different to Koga.
Then he moved on to head position. Gary mentions that a lot of swimmers swim backstroke with the head tilted forward. It helps you see where you are a bit better and allows you to get a bit more power from the stroke because of the relative position of the shoulder. However, doing this presents the neck and upper shoulders to the water and creates drag. What you should be doing, is having the head tilted back, so that there is a bow wave coming over your face on every hand entry. You can't see where you are as well (I used the lanerope as a guide) and you feel like you can't quite the same strength into the stroke. But the complete lack of pressure on the upper shoulders, its like night and day!
Been getting used to the new head position and on thursday at the end of the session we had 2 x 100 m max.
Did the first one freestyle and set off 50 m behind a friend to pace his second 50. I felt good after the 1st 50 so carried on for the second and came back in 1.05. Managed 4-5 kicks on turns, started from a push and hadn't gone flat on the 1st 50. I felt pretty fresh after that!
Did a recovery swim and then did the second one backstroke. Managed a 1.08 with the new head position and 4-5 kicks on the turns. This was a revelation, don't think I have ever swum that fast for backstroke in training and I didn't feel totally bushed after it either. Just a strong, controlled swim...still some 5 seconds off my best recent time, but for the circumstances, a good swim.
I can't wait to actually do a race with my new technique!
Also got fly technique to work on which is focused on the breathing. Not lifting the shoulders out the water to breath, but extending the head/neck to face forward to breath and then bringing it back down to the chest once the hands go in. Keeps you flat in the water, reduces drag because you're presenting less of the chest to the water and means you aren't wasting energy driving upwards.
I've had some hit and miss sessions the last couple of weeks. Hitting my motiviation a bit.
I did a session of 5 x 400m with 25 secs rest aiming for 6:40. I hit every one on 6:41 / 6:42. Felt great. Next day 18 x 100m off 1:45, hit 1:35 or les son each one. Next day ached like hell, did 2 x 1000m and half way through the second almost gave up, finished 45 seconds slower than usual.
Perhaps I need some more rest.
Got another 1-2-1 coaching session coming up next week, with a dreaded 400m TT. Hoping for a 6:15 PB.
I did a session of 5 x 400m with 25 secs rest aiming for 6:40. I hit every one on 6:41 / 6:42. Felt great. Next day 18 x 100m off 1:45, hit 1:35 or les son each one. Next day ached like hell, did 2 x 1000m and half way through the second almost gave up, finished 45 seconds slower than usual.
Perhaps I need some more rest.
Got another 1-2-1 coaching session coming up next week, with a dreaded 400m TT. Hoping for a 6:15 PB.
Otispunkmeyer said:
technique can be fixed regardless of age!
It does help to have someone watch you though otherwise you're mostly in the dark about what your hands are doing!
For distance I would focus on keeping a high elbow, starting early in the stroke. Hand entry should be fingers straight down (no thumb first). Stroke should be hip driven, which also means you need a decent kick but allows a slower stroke rate.
A good place to have a look at these things is a YT channel called "TheRaceClub". Its got some great insights on technique and is done by Gary Hall Snr.
Thanks. I will have a look at that channel. I actually trained as an assistant and full swimming teacher when I was a student, so I should know a thing about technique It does help to have someone watch you though otherwise you're mostly in the dark about what your hands are doing!
For distance I would focus on keeping a high elbow, starting early in the stroke. Hand entry should be fingers straight down (no thumb first). Stroke should be hip driven, which also means you need a decent kick but allows a slower stroke rate.
A good place to have a look at these things is a YT channel called "TheRaceClub". Its got some great insights on technique and is done by Gary Hall Snr.
. Alas, that was many years ago! Going for a swim on Tuesday night. Will what I used to do which is 4 x 400m with a 200m slow down swim at the end.
Otis, I always, have done, never will doing anything other, than try and get the best out of every single start and turn, you only get that momentum once at each end of the pool. little things like not only having hands on top of each other but crossing big toes to promote a tear drop shape, every turn I do at least 4 fly kicks and I get between 9-10m on every turn, on back I go for the full 15m every time don't always get it quite right especially when lungs are screaming at the end of a set. But if you can't do it in training don't expect to do it in racing. Do sets of 25m fly kick under water 4x of 30 sec if you can do that try 6, on from then do 50m with a tumble and no breathing if you can do 3x of 60-75 then you are really building good capacity, jeez I remember doing 100m's in crystal palace, only one at a time though, coach used to drop them in to the middle of a session as a challenge every so often. Good luck with it, quickest but not necessarily easiest way to shave time.
OneDs said:
Otis, I always, have done, never will doing anything other, than try and get the best out of every single start and turn, you only get that momentum once at each end of the pool. little things like not only having hands on top of each other but crossing big toes to promote a tear drop shape, every turn I do at least 4 fly kicks and I get between 9-10m on every turn, on back I go for the full 15m every time don't always get it quite right especially when lungs are screaming at the end of a set. But if you can't do it in training don't expect to do it in racing. Do sets of 25m fly kick under water 4x of 30 sec if you can do that try 6, on from then do 50m with a tumble and no breathing if you can do 3x of 60-75 then you are really building good capacity, jeez I remember doing 100m's in crystal palace, only one at a time though, coach used to drop them in to the middle of a session as a challenge every so often. Good luck with it, quickest but not necessarily easiest way to shave time.
Yep, will try get some of this in. Swimming in a big group means you can't just do what you want, but I can certainly chop 4x50 drill/swim for 25 UW/25 recovery etc.I can swim a 50 in one breath no problem. Doing a 50 UW is a lot harder! I can do 25 UW pretty easy though. The distance isn't really the problem, its covering the ground fast enough. No point in staying under if you're faster on top. But as my 5th stroke gets better, I should find I can stay under longer and longer. Got some decent land and drill exercises to get the hips and pelvis moving right and so I can develop that muscle memory. The land exercises are a little embarrassing to do because one of them looks like you're humping a wall. They're called banana peel exercises. The drills from that involves fly kick with a board.
At the moment normally pretty much done by 5 kicks on freestyle and then I should really be up and going. In training last night I was doing 3's and 4's and hitting about 7.5 m off the turns, already 2+ m better than I usually do and hopefully covering the distance quicker.
Backstroke is a little different...same number of kicks, but I manage to go a little further, closer to 9m. Not sure what I do differently, but I have always found it easier on my back. Now that I have my head in the right position as well, backstroke really has become a bit of breeze. Absolutely no issues last night cruising around in 200m backstrokes coming in on 2.40-2.45 range. Repeats were or were supposed to be on 3.30 (such is multi-ability group swimming), but I know I could do repeats on 3 minutes comfortably. Could probably do repeats on 2.50 with some more effort in the actual swimming.
Its getting me quite excited to race 100 back stroke next. It just feels so good.
On 200's free, just working the turns and UW with 2-3 strokes at decent pace, then the rest of the length just cruising. Its amazing how easy it is to keep up or catch up without putting in a high level of continuous effort on the swimming part. Sure putting the effort in on the turns can sometimes make you feel like your lungs are about to burst, but it passes quite quickly and by the next turn, you're ready to go again.
Just more work to do on getting the motion right, need to be a little more flexible in a few places like the ankles and more control in places like the pelvis, then I need to work on getting more power into it without just wasting it slipping water. Takes a bit of experimentation with how big a undulation you should do and how fast you should do it. But hopefully I have been swimming long enough to feel roughly what is working and what isn't.
Otispunkmeyer said:
944fan said:
Pretty good week in the pool. Clocked my biggest ever volume at 12.7km and also squeezed out at a PB in the 400m at 6:18.6. 3 and a bit seconds off. Feel like I can go faster still.
Really hopping I can break 6 mins by the end of the year
Good target, you should be able to do that by the years end!Really hopping I can break 6 mins by the end of the year
Going to try and break 6 mins by end of the summer now.
Not sure if something like this is of interest to anyone?
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/swimmo-is-a-sma...
Swimmo... a smart watch for swimmers.
Now, personally, I think stuff like this is basically useless for some one like myself. My coaches in the past have tried numerous times to introduce things like HR monitors and noting things down on water proof pads etc. But in the end, a finger to the neck to count your pulse for 6 seconds (then x10, or 10 seconds then x6) is what we ended up falling back on. It works, its reliable, its fast and easy to do and its accurate enough.
Metrics such as stroke count, lap count, repeat times and even times for 25s or 50s are things a swimmer will already be counting and working with in their heads. I don't need a buzzer to tell me what my pace is, I've been doing it that long I know what my pace is just from the effort I am putting in. And if I need to, crafty sneaks at the clock are easily doable in most pools during a breath or something.
But the worst thing about watches and things like this, is that they just don't feel right in the water. They mess with your feel for the water. Its not just about what your hands are doing, its how the water feels as it flows over all parts of your body. You need to be able to feel which bits are creating lift, which bits are creating drag.
I remember sprinting with a HR monitor on. The chest strap basically slid down to my hips on the push off because the streamline changes the shape of your rib cage and the watch just made my left hand feel horrible every time it entered the water. Unless it was on very tight, water would get under the watch and feel like it was trying to lift it off your arm.
That last point is surely going to make or break this thing. It uses the green LED light or similar method that a lot of fitness trackers use. And reports from them would suggest they aren't particularly good when you start moving vigorously. I can only imagine that + water trying to rip the thing off your wrist will put paid to that functionality.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/swimmo-is-a-sma...
Swimmo... a smart watch for swimmers.
Now, personally, I think stuff like this is basically useless for some one like myself. My coaches in the past have tried numerous times to introduce things like HR monitors and noting things down on water proof pads etc. But in the end, a finger to the neck to count your pulse for 6 seconds (then x10, or 10 seconds then x6) is what we ended up falling back on. It works, its reliable, its fast and easy to do and its accurate enough.
Metrics such as stroke count, lap count, repeat times and even times for 25s or 50s are things a swimmer will already be counting and working with in their heads. I don't need a buzzer to tell me what my pace is, I've been doing it that long I know what my pace is just from the effort I am putting in. And if I need to, crafty sneaks at the clock are easily doable in most pools during a breath or something.
But the worst thing about watches and things like this, is that they just don't feel right in the water. They mess with your feel for the water. Its not just about what your hands are doing, its how the water feels as it flows over all parts of your body. You need to be able to feel which bits are creating lift, which bits are creating drag.
I remember sprinting with a HR monitor on. The chest strap basically slid down to my hips on the push off because the streamline changes the shape of your rib cage and the watch just made my left hand feel horrible every time it entered the water. Unless it was on very tight, water would get under the watch and feel like it was trying to lift it off your arm.
That last point is surely going to make or break this thing. It uses the green LED light or similar method that a lot of fitness trackers use. And reports from them would suggest they aren't particularly good when you start moving vigorously. I can only imagine that + water trying to rip the thing off your wrist will put paid to that functionality.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 16th April 10:44
I missed my session last week as the pool was closed for early swimmers. I now need to travel another 10 minutes further to get to the pool which opens early 
Did 2.8km in 55 minutes which was very poor but it came off the back of the first brick training yesterday which was very painful. On the plus side, the new pool is open air and it was 26C this morning but it was full of people who could not swim straight. Very frustrating.
Did 2.8km in 55 minutes which was very poor but it came off the back of the first brick training yesterday which was very painful. On the plus side, the new pool is open air and it was 26C this morning but it was full of people who could not swim straight. Very frustrating.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Not sure if something like this is of interest to anyone?
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/swimmo-is-a-sma...
Swimmo... a smart watch for swimmers.
Now, personally, I think stuff like this is basically useless for some one like myself. My coaches in the past have tried numerous times to introduce things like HR monitors and noting things down on water proof pads etc. But in the end, a finger to the neck to count your pulse for 6 seconds (then x10, or 10 seconds then x6) is what we ended up falling back on. It works, its reliable, its fast and easy to do and its accurate enough.
Metrics such as stroke count, lap count, repeat times and even times for 25s or 50s are things a swimmer will already be counting and working with in their heads. I don't need a buzzer to tell me what my pace is, I've been doing it that long I know what my pace is just from the effort I am putting in. And if I need to, crafty sneaks at the clock are easily doable in most pools during a breath or something.
But the worst thing about watches and things like this, is that they just don't feel right in the water. They mess with your feel for the water. Its not just about what your hands are doing, its how the water feels as it flows over all parts of your body. You need to be able to feel which bits are creating lift, which bits are creating drag.
I remember sprinting with a HR monitor on. The chest strap basically slid down to my hips on the push off because the streamline changes the shape of your rib cage and the watch just made my left hand feel horrible every time it entered the water. Unless it was on very tight, water would get under the watch and feel like it was trying to lift it off your arm.
That last point is surely going to make or break this thing. It uses the green LED light or similar method that a lot of fitness trackers use. And reports from them would suggest they aren't particularly good when you start moving vigorously. I can only imagine that + water trying to rip the thing off your wrist will put paid to that functionality.
I've always used a Garmin Swim. It isn't as advanced as the Swimmo as it doesn't have the pacing or HR. Pacing I get with a Finis Tempo Trainer. Wearing a watch doesn't really bother me but then I only started swimming 2 years ago and have always worn one.http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/swimmo-is-a-sma...
Swimmo... a smart watch for swimmers.
Now, personally, I think stuff like this is basically useless for some one like myself. My coaches in the past have tried numerous times to introduce things like HR monitors and noting things down on water proof pads etc. But in the end, a finger to the neck to count your pulse for 6 seconds (then x10, or 10 seconds then x6) is what we ended up falling back on. It works, its reliable, its fast and easy to do and its accurate enough.
Metrics such as stroke count, lap count, repeat times and even times for 25s or 50s are things a swimmer will already be counting and working with in their heads. I don't need a buzzer to tell me what my pace is, I've been doing it that long I know what my pace is just from the effort I am putting in. And if I need to, crafty sneaks at the clock are easily doable in most pools during a breath or something.
But the worst thing about watches and things like this, is that they just don't feel right in the water. They mess with your feel for the water. Its not just about what your hands are doing, its how the water feels as it flows over all parts of your body. You need to be able to feel which bits are creating lift, which bits are creating drag.
I remember sprinting with a HR monitor on. The chest strap basically slid down to my hips on the push off because the streamline changes the shape of your rib cage and the watch just made my left hand feel horrible every time it entered the water. Unless it was on very tight, water would get under the watch and feel like it was trying to lift it off your arm.
That last point is surely going to make or break this thing. It uses the green LED light or similar method that a lot of fitness trackers use. And reports from them would suggest they aren't particularly good when you start moving vigorously. I can only imagine that + water trying to rip the thing off your wrist will put paid to that functionality.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 16th April 10:44
I like using it as it tracks total distance and splits and speed so it makes it easy to keep and log and see progress over time.
Up until a month ago I was really happy with the Garmin but recently it has started playing up and dropping lengths all the time. It used to drop one or two lengths in a 11Km week. It is now dropping a length per set. Quite interested in the Swimmo but will wait till its actually in production and there are some reviews of its efficiency.
Highway Star said:
Anyone keeping up with the Nationals? Adam Peaty world record and the first man under 58 for 100 breaststroke. Awesome and one of our best chances for gold at Rio.
Just about to come post the same myself. British swimming should really have had this event streamed but they didn't. Would have loved to have seen that 57.92 from Peaty. What a fricken unit that lad is. He has so much power left in that last 20, he doesn't seem to wilt, only get faster.There has been some awesome swims from the team over the last few days. Good to see Pavoni with a gold, he got his funding withdrawn sometime last year I think, but I'm glad he's showing them he's worth funding!
Really exciting performances, cannot wait to watch the world's in Russia!
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