The Ashes 2015

[TheExcession]

spikeyhead said:

johnfm said:

County cricket is a bit too weak to properly prepare batsmen for test cricket I reckon. A 501 run partnership today. What was the bowling like? County cricket is full of journeymen trundlers who can churn out the overs it would seem.

To me, that is the biggest problem that faces English cricket. All the counties want is to get the boys on the field six days a week so that three men and their dog can pay a few quid to keep the coffers topped up. What's really needed is to get the standard up close to test level. If we let the Div 1 teams play with five from other countries, that would still leave 54 places for home grown talent to grow, and playing against better players on a consistent basis is what drives improvements. At the moment no-one wants to pay good money to watch two teams of journeymen.

There's been some very interesting points made on this thread by people way more up to date on the county players than I am.

I wonder what the state of county cricket is like in the UK at the moment.

My only comparison is that 2 years ago I got involved with a local rugby club, once I'd offered my time for the coaching (and we're talking under 10s here) I was sent off to (told to attend) a 2 day coaching course run by the IRFU. I think it was attended by representatives of about 12 town/county clubs - there were about 30-40 of us on the course.

It was superbly run and really enjoyable - they (IRFU reps) were taking coaching at this level extremely seriously. We were told how important it is to recognise individual aspects of play that show a natural talent and develop and share that amongst the other kids.

At the same time we were given the numbers and names to contact within the IRFU if we needed any kind of support or for someone to come down and take a look at our kids playing. There is a massive amount of support for coaches as the IRFU recognise that this is where your next top flight players come from.

Is there anything similar going on with the cricket board in the UK? Are they really stuck to find players that can step up to Test Level? If so it will take a decade to resolve.

Edited by TheExcession on Monday 20th July 21:20

[johnxjsc1985]

TheExcession said:

There's been some very interesting points made on this thread by people way more up to date on the county players than I am.

I wonder what the state of county cricket is like in the UK at the moment.

My only comparison is that 2 years ago I got involved with a local rugby club, once I'd offered my time for the coaching (and we're talking under 10s here) I was sent off to (told to attend) a 2 day coaching course run by the IRFU. I think it was attended by representatives of about 12 town/county clubs - there were about 30-40 of us on the course.

It was superbly run and really enjoyable - they (IRFU reps) were taking coaching at this level extremely seriously. We were told how important it is to recognise individual aspects of play that show a natural talent and develop and share that amongst the other kids.

At the same time we were given the numbers and names to contact within the IRFU if we needed any kind of support or for someone to come down and take a look at our kids playing. There is a massive amount of support for coaches as the IRFU recognise that this is where your next top flight players come from.

Is there anything similar going on with the cricket board in the UK? Are they really stuck to find players that can step up to Test Level? If so it will take a decade to resolve.

Edited by TheExcession on Monday 20th July 21:20

Get the impression that County cricket is now on a par with Div 1 of the football league.
The step up in quality is just too much for some players to come to terms with

[zygalski]

FourWheelDrift said:

zygalski said:

FourWheelDrift said:

Gargamel said:

I don't see or hear of another County Player who is really a ready to go better alternative ?

What about that bloke, scores lots of runs, experienced at international level, what's his name, it's on the tip of my tongue, Keith Potterton, Kelvin Patterson? Something like that.

Yes, because another 35 runs per innings at a strike rate of 90 would have made all the difference...

His test average is 47.28, S/R of 61.72

KP Test match innings since May 2012

32 & 13
80
78
42 & 16
149 & 12
17 & 2
186
54 & 0
73 & 6
0 & 12
73
14 & 64
2 & 5
113 & 8
26 & 44
50 & 62
18 & 26
4 & 53
19 & 45
71 & 49
3 & 6

= 1527 runs (zero n/o) / 38 innings
= 40.18 runs ave

So, I did KP's average a disservice by 5 runs.

[juice]

Wasn't his avg in the 2013 ashes series 29 or something though ? Not sure he's the answer to be honest....

[Murph7355]

juice said:

Wasn't his avg in the 2013 ashes series 29 or something though ? Not sure he's the answer to be honest....

I am.

He's 100% NOT the answer

[Mark-C]

johnxjsc1985 said:

What sort of Captain is Cook.He is quiet and considered but is this what we need against the Aussies.
I am reminded of Beefy at his best we need someone to take them on and Cook is not the man

Yep Beefy was really sticking it to them in 1981 ... shocking that we replaced him with that mouthy Brearley bloke ;-)

[Murph7355]

johnxjsc1985 said:

maybe we are just not good enough

Granted the Aussies looked shabby, but they were soundly beaten in Cardiff. And we didn't start too well.

Maybe the guys just got complacent?

The next test will be telling.

[TheExcession]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Get the impression that County cricket is now on a par with Div 1 of the football league.
The step up in quality is just too much for some players to come to terms with

Looks that way doesn't it?


Here's my best attempt to put up an all time Test Match score card for the current English players. (This based on stats from espn cricinfo) I believe it includes everything to date.

Name	Age	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	4s	6s	Ct	St
Lyth	27	4	8	0	200	107	25.00	368	54.34	1	0	28	1	4	0
Cook	30	116	208	12	9139	294	46.62	19723	46.33	27	43	1052	10	116	0
Balance	25	15	27	2	1194	156	47.76	2498	47.79	4	6	153	8	14	0
Bell	33	112	194	22	7427	235	43.18	14887	49.88	22	43	885	38	92	0
Root	24	29	53	7	2485	200*	54.02	4844	51.30	7	12	268	9	27	0
Stokes	24	13	24	0	864	120	36.00	1345	64.23	2	4	121	12	5	0
Butler	24	10	16	3	532	85	40.92	866	61.43	0	5	71	8	36	0
Ali	28	13	21	1	587	108*	29.35	1306	44.94	1	3	85	4	10	0
Broad	29	81	116	13	2353	169	22.84	3505	67.13	1	10	304	28	22	0
Wood	25	4	8	5	93	32*	31.00	136	68.38	0	0	13	1	2	0
Anderson	32	106	147	51	1010	81	10.52	2505	40.31	0	1	138	2	65	0

So that's the England team so far as AN ONLY TEST MATCH review.

Is anyone here keen to spend an hour or two trying to collate all the Aussie players in the same format?

[johnxjsc1985]

I was a huge fan of Boycott and I would imagine this Aussie attack would suit him fine and his wicket would not be given freely or at all,
We seem to have lost something and letting the Aussies get in front and with confidencenow soaring we are in trouble .Who will stand up to them and look them in the eye..Cook I dont think so.
The England team seems to be waiting for someone to stand up to the Aussie attack .

[DJRC]

Gents - it was one match. The previous match we won.

You might want to remember that acting like headless chickens never worked that well for England selectors in the past, so the chances of you lot acting like headless chickens and coming up with anything meaningful are just as slim.

[TheExcession]

johnxjsc1985 said:

I was a huge fan of Boycott and I would imagine this Aussie attack would suit him fine and his wicket would not be given freely or at all

Great stuff, and you're [David Lloyd]showing yer age thur[/David Lloyd].

I agree, a bats man that can stand there (thur if you are from Lancs) and not get out is what you need. It's a long game - 5 days - don't get out.

I've got this feeling that the Aussie bowlers are way faster than any of the stuff we poms are used to dealing with - it's almost like the Windies bowling - Ambrose, Marshal, Walsh.

johnxjsc1985 said:

We seem to have lost something and letting the Aussies get in front and with confidence now soaring we are in trouble .Who will stand up to them and look them in the eye..Cook I dont think so.
The England team seems to be waiting for someone to stand up to the Aussie attack .

I've got this horrible feeling that it is going to be a 4-1 defeat.

[johnfm]

I have used the bowlers bowling figures - not that important what messrs 8-11 average with the bat.

Hazlewood looks handy.

Name	Age	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	4s	6s	Ct	St
Chris 'Geriatric' Rogers	37	22	43	1	1862	173	44.33	3694	50.40	5	12	241	1	14	0
Dave 'stupid 'tache' Warner	28	40	76	3	3421	180	46.86	4630	73.88	12	16	414	34	30	0
Steve 'piggy' Smith	27	30	58	8	2926	215	58.52	5234	55.90	10	12	328	25	24	0
Michael 'not scored for quite a while' Clarke	34	112	193	22	8592	329*	50.24	15346	55.98	28	27	972	39	131	0
Adam 'not played enough to get a PH nickname' Voges	35	4	5	1	224	130*	56.00	466	48.06	1	0	27	2	2	0
Mitchell 'that's a unique name' Marsh	23	5	10	2	301	87	37.62	503	59.84	0	1	35	6	2	0
Brad 'likes a sledge' Haddin	37	66	112	13	3266	169	32.98	5587	58.45	4	18	363	54	262	8
		Mat	Inns	Balls	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	4w	5w	10
Mitchell 'poms can't hack his pace and bounce' Johnson	33	68	131	15143	8287	299	8/61	12/127	27.71	3.28	50.6	16	12	3
Mitchell 'poms can't hack his pace and swing' Starc	25	19	37	3913	2208	69	6/154	8/209	32.00	3.38	56.7	1	3	0
Nathan 'apparently not very good and looks quite old' Lyon	27	43	84	10050	5296	155	7/94	12/286	34.16	3.16	64.8	5	7	1
Josh 'McGrath Mk2' Hazlewood	24	7	14	1489	678	34	5/38	7/56	19.94	2.73	43.7	0	2	0

Name	Age	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	4s	6s	Ct	St
Adam 'Doesn't look up to the job' Lyth	27	4	8	0	200	107	25.00	368	54.34	1	0	28	1	4	0
Alistair 'says ummm a lot in interviews' Cook	30	116	208	12	9139	294	46.62	19723	46.33	27	43	1052	10	116	0
Gary 'also doesn't look up to the job' Balance	25	15	27	2	1194	156	47.76	2498	47.79	4	6	153	8	14	0
Ian 'last chance saloon'Bell	33	112	194	22	7427	235	43.18	14887	49.88	22	43	885	38	92	0
Joe 'looks 12 years old' Root	24	29	53	7	2485	200*	54.02	4844	51.30	7	12	268	9	27	0
Ben 'gobby ginger twunt' Stokes	24	13	24	0	864	120	36.00	1345	64.23	2	4	121	12	5	0
Joss 'no need for a nickname' Butler	24	10	16	3	532	85	40.92	866	61.43	0	5	71	8	36	0
Moeen 'fvck me, what a great beard' Ali	28	13	21	1	587	108*	29.35	1306	44.94	1	3	85	4	10	0
Stuart 'scared of the fast stuff' Broad	29	81	116	13	2353	169	22.84	3505	67.13	1	10	304	28	22	0
Mark 'takes a weird little backstep at the top of his run up' Wood	25	4	8	5	93	32*	31.00	136	68.38	0	0	13	1	2	0
Jimmy 'can't take wickets on a dead track' Anderson	32	106	147	51	1010	81	10.52	2505	40.31	0	1	138	2	65	0

Edited by johnfm on Tuesday 21st July 00:18

Edited by johnfm on Tuesday 21st July 00:20

Edited by johnfm on Tuesday 21st July 18:14

[Mark-C]

Murph7355 said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

maybe we are just not good enough

Granted the Aussies looked shabby, but they were soundly beaten in Cardiff. And we didn't start too well.

Maybe the guys just got complacent?

The next test will be telling.

You’re not doing this right at all. We need a knee jerk reaction ... common sense just won’t cut it round here

[TheExcession]

DJRC said:

Gents - it was one match. The previous match we won.

You might want to remember that acting like headless chickens never worked that well for England selectors in the past, so the chances of you lot acting like headless chickens and coming up with anything meaningful are just as slim.

And of course (slim) is your brief synopsis.

Of course it was only one match where the INTERNATIONAL ENGLISH CRICKET TEAM got utterly hammered, not only that they were beaten to a pulp, shown to be utterly lacking in any ability to compete on their home turf, could not bat to keep the score under control and simply could not bowl at the same level of the tourist crims.

So, I'm right up there with your "Gents it was only one match"

I'm not actually sure we'll even come close to winning another one - common DJRC - top order not even getting 30-40 runs between them?

What are the ground staff doing at Edgbaston right now?

[TheExcession]

Good effort cobber

I'm just going to put these along side before I go and double check the stats

johnfm said:

Bowling figures:

Name	Age	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	4s	6s	Ct	St
Chris 'Geriatric' Rogers	37	22	43	1	1862	173	44.33	3694	50.40	5	12	241	1	14	0
Dave 'stupid 'tache' Warner	28	40	76	3	3421	180	46.86	4630	73.88	12	16	414	34	30	0
Steve 'piggy' Smith	27	30	58	8	2926	215	58.52	5234	55.90	10	12	328	25	24	0
Michael 'not scored for quite a while' Clarke	34	112	193	22	8592	329*	50.24	15346	55.98	28	27	972	39	131	0
Adam 'not played enough to get a PH nickname' Voges	35	4	5	1	224	130*	56.00	466	48.06	1	0	27	2	2	0
Mitchell 'that's a unique name' Marsh	23	5	10	2	301	87	37.62	503	59.84	0	1	35	6	2	0
Brad 'likes a sledge' Haddin	37	66	112	13	3266	169	32.98	5587	58.45	4	18	363	54	262	8

TheExcession said:

Batting figure

Name	Age	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	4s	6s	Ct	St
Lyth	27	4	8	0	200	107	25.00	368	54.34	1	0	28	1	4	0
Cook	30	116	208	12	9139	294	46.62	19723	46.33	27	43	1052	10	116	0
Balance	25	15	27	2	1194	156	47.76	2498	47.79	4	6	153	8	14	0
Bell	33	112	194	22	7427	235	43.18	14887	49.88	22	43	885	38	92	0
Root	24	29	53	7	2485	200*	54.02	4844	51.30	7	12	268	9	27	0
Stokes	24	13	24	0	864	120	36.00	1345	64.23	2	4	121	12	5	0
Butler	24	10	16	3	532	85	40.92	866	61.43	0	5	71	8	36	0
Ali	28	13	21	1	587	108*	29.35	1306	44.94	1	3	85	4	10	0
Broad	29	81	116	13	2353	169	22.84	3505	67.13	1	10	304	28	22	0
Wood	25	4	8	5	93	32*	31.00	136	68.38	0	0	13	1	2	0
Anderson	32	106	147	51	1010	81	10.52	2505	40.31	0	1	138	2	65	0

Those strike rates really hurt huh?

(A1 for taking the time to put those stats up)

Edited by TheExcession on Tuesday 21st July 00:25

[johnfm]

TheExcession said:

DJRC said:

Gents - it was one match. The previous match we won.

You might want to remember that acting like headless chickens never worked that well for England selectors in the past, so the chances of you lot acting like headless chickens and coming up with anything meaningful are just as slim.

And of course (slim) is your brief synopsis.

Of course it was only one match where the INTERNATIONAL ENGLISH CRICKET TEAM got utterly hammered, not only that they were beaten to a pulp, shown to be utterly lacking in any ability to compete on their home turf, could not bat to keep the score under control and simply could not bowl at the same level of the tourist crims.

So, I'm right up there with your "Gents it was only one match"

I'm not actually sure we'll even come close to winning another one - common DJRC - top order not even getting 30-40 runs between them?

What are the ground staff doing at Edgbaston right now?

Watering the pitch - a lot...

[Murph7355]

Mark-C said:

You’re not doing this right at all. We need a knee jerk reaction ... common sense just won’t cut it round here

To be fair I'd rest both Bell and Anderson. Lyth too. I'd leave Ballance alone though for now.

I'd be inclined to bring on Rashid for the bowling...just not sure who to give a go on the batting front. But Bell has been shaky for too long IMO so almost anyone would be worth a punt (drawing a line at KP though - forward not backward thinking required). And Lyth's looking out of his depth.

Before this series started I thought our batting would be OK and that it was the bowling that would need work. Maybe we simply aren't good enough after all

[johnfm]

DJRC said:

Gents - it was one match. The previous match we won.

You might want to remember that acting like headless chickens never worked that well for England selectors in the past, so the chances of you lot acting like headless chickens and coming up with anything meaningful are just as slim.

I would normally tend to agree with this. It is only one game etc...


...but, as I posted earlier, Eng had an average showing against WI away and NZ at home. While they got a (surprising, yet deserved) win at Cardiff, I don't think it was indicative of the relative merits of the two sides.

If England win another test in this series I will be really impressed and surprised. A hell of a lot (in fact 99.9%) depends on conditions suitable for Anderson. Without him swinging it both ways and cutting around, you've not got much hope.

[TheExcession]

johnfm said:

TheExcession said:

What are the ground staff doing at Edgbaston right now?

Watering the pitch - a lot...

The thought of all them lasses in the Midlands wetting the pitch, whilst squirtingly admirable just doesn't fill me with much hope

[TheExcession]

Murph7355 said:

Before this series started I thought our batting would be OK and that it was the bowling that would need work. Maybe we simply aren't good enough after all

I think a lot of people thought that only in reverse - I thought our bowling would be up to it - especially after Cardiff.