The Ashes 2015
Discussion
Murph7355 said:
To be fair I'd rest both Bell and Anderson. Lyth too. I'd leave Ballance alone though for now.
I'd be inclined to bring on Rashid for the bowling...just not sure who to give a go on the batting front. But Bell has been shaky for too long IMO so almost anyone would be worth a punt (drawing a line at KP though - forward not backward thinking required). And Lyth's looking out of his depth.
Before this series started I thought our batting would be OK and that it was the bowling that would need work. Maybe we simply aren't good enough after all
So Finn for Anderson (one test only) and bring Rashid in, drop Bell and move Ali up to his place and we just need to find an opener to replace Lyth ... or give him a go for one more test - he’s started test cricket better than Gooch did I'd be inclined to bring on Rashid for the bowling...just not sure who to give a go on the batting front. But Bell has been shaky for too long IMO so almost anyone would be worth a punt (drawing a line at KP though - forward not backward thinking required). And Lyth's looking out of his depth.
Before this series started I thought our batting would be OK and that it was the bowling that would need work. Maybe we simply aren't good enough after all
If we’d have won the toss, we’d have lost but nowhere near as badly and we wouldn’t be having these discussions ...
johnfm said:
I would normally tend to agree with this. It is only one game etc...
...but, as I posted earlier, Eng had an average showing against WI away and NZ at home. While they got a (surprising, yet deserved) win at Cardiff, I don't think it was indicative of the relative merits of the two sides.
If England win another test in this series I will be really impressed and surprised. A hell of a lot (in fact 99.9%) depends on conditions suitable for Anderson. Without him swinging it both ways and cutting around, you've not got much hope.
Just p...but, as I posted earlier, Eng had an average showing against WI away and NZ at home. While they got a (surprising, yet deserved) win at Cardiff, I don't think it was indicative of the relative merits of the two sides.
If England win another test in this series I will be really impressed and surprised. A hell of a lot (in fact 99.9%) depends on conditions suitable for Anderson. Without him swinging it both ways and cutting around, you've not got much hope.
s off with your clever analysis of that Testicle & Teaticle analysis...However, I think you might be absolutely spot on with that synopsis.
Still a few weeks to go yet..... we'll see.
Murph7355 said:
Mark-C said:
You’re not doing this right at all. We need a knee jerk reaction ... common sense just won’t cut it round here 
To be fair I'd rest both Bell and Anderson. Lyth too. I'd leave Ballance alone though for now.I'd be inclined to bring on Rashid for the bowling...just not sure who to give a go on the batting front. But Bell has been shaky for too long IMO so almost anyone would be worth a punt (drawing a line at KP though - forward not backward thinking required). And Lyth's looking out of his depth.
Before this series started I thought our batting would be OK and that it was the bowling that would need work. Maybe we simply aren't good enough after all
County cricket may not be as good as it was, but its what we have. Players like Root and Stokes came through the system, so why cant others?
I would drop Ballance but keep in Bell for one more test, and keep Lyth in for the reminder of the series. Ballance looks all at see at the moment and rooted to the crease. Lyth should have been brought in against the WI so i think he deserves the series.
If they drop Ballance I would bump up them all up one place, and bring in Rashid as an extra bowler who bats.
If they want to bring in a batsman then it has to be Taylor or Bairstow who would come in at say 6 with everyone being bumped up.
If they drop Ballance I would bump up them all up one place, and bring in Rashid as an extra bowler who bats.
If they want to bring in a batsman then it has to be Taylor or Bairstow who would come in at say 6 with everyone being bumped up.
Can't believe anyone would seriously drop Andersen. The man has 400+ test wickets and is our best bowler!
Andersen, Broad, Wood is a decent line up. Stokes and Ali are a little to bitsa to be a genuine fourth bowler.
Lots of folks slating the standard of the county game, but a few posts later saying Hales should bat. Hales isn't making runs against County sides at the moment.
Bairstow is at least leading the runs table for county matches.
How about Ballance out, Moeen at 3, Finn as a forth bowler ?
johnfm said:
DJRC said:
Gents - it was one match. The previous match we won.
You might want to remember that acting like headless chickens never worked that well for England selectors in the past, so the chances of you lot acting like headless chickens and coming up with anything meaningful are just as slim.
I would normally tend to agree with this. It is only one game etc...You might want to remember that acting like headless chickens never worked that well for England selectors in the past, so the chances of you lot acting like headless chickens and coming up with anything meaningful are just as slim.
...but, as I posted earlier, Eng had an average showing against WI away and NZ at home. While they got a (surprising, yet deserved) win at Cardiff, I don't think it was indicative of the relative merits of the two sides.
If England win another test in this series I will be really impressed and surprised. A hell of a lot (in fact 99.9%) depends on conditions suitable for Anderson. Without him swinging it both ways and cutting around, you've not got much hope.
The two aspects that do cause me worry are Lythe and Ballance. Lythe doesn't impress me, its that simple. Ballance I think has a long term future, but currently he is flat out form and in MS, Aus have a bowler who will keep heaping pressure on you not allowing for mistakes with MJ at the other end ready to blast away when he is in form. Now no offence but so far its one test he shipped a shedload of runs for one wicket and one test he has come good.
Bell deserves another test but Id let him know it was last chance saloon again - he tends to order the whole bottle of Scotch when he knows its time!
Same with Root and Smith to me. Both are the current star batsmen for their teams and both have dominated one match each. That makes things level.
So to me the pressure points are equal at one match each. I think the next match is capable of being won by either side.
TheExcession said:
I've got this horrible feeling that it is going to be a 4-1 defeat.
DJRC said:
Well Jimmy has taken wickets in every Test country on every surface. The last test was the first in something like 60odd he had failed to take a wicket - that makes it a statistical anomaly in anyones book.
The two aspects that do cause me worry are Lythe and Ballance. Lythe doesn't impress me, its that simple. Ballance I think has a long term future, but currently he is flat out form and in MS, Aus have a bowler who will keep heaping pressure on you not allowing for mistakes with MJ at the other end ready to blast away when he is in form. Now no offence but so far its one test he shipped a shedload of runs for one wicket and one test he has come good.
Bell deserves another test but Id let him know it was last chance saloon again - he tends to order the whole bottle of Scotch when he knows its time!
Same with Root and Smith to me. Both are the current star batsmen for their teams and both have dominated one match each. That makes things level.
So to me the pressure points are equal at one match each. I think the next match is capable of being won by either side.
Totally agree re: Anderson. Lords match is an outlier. How on earth coudl you drop him? No way.The two aspects that do cause me worry are Lythe and Ballance. Lythe doesn't impress me, its that simple. Ballance I think has a long term future, but currently he is flat out form and in MS, Aus have a bowler who will keep heaping pressure on you not allowing for mistakes with MJ at the other end ready to blast away when he is in form. Now no offence but so far its one test he shipped a shedload of runs for one wicket and one test he has come good.
Bell deserves another test but Id let him know it was last chance saloon again - he tends to order the whole bottle of Scotch when he knows its time!
Same with Root and Smith to me. Both are the current star batsmen for their teams and both have dominated one match each. That makes things level.
So to me the pressure points are equal at one match each. I think the next match is capable of being won by either side.
The problem with your balance analysis is that you are (1) only looking at the last two tests; and (2) you are ignoring momentum.
(1) I would consider the batting and bowling form going back a few more tests, say 3-4 months. Aus smashed the WI away from home. Eng drew with both the WI and NZ (relinquishing a 1-0 lead in both series). On that analysis, I don't think you can dismiss MJ's bowling as 'lots of runs for a wicket or two in Cardiff' and Lords as an outlier. If anything, Cardiff is the outlier.
(2) Momentum. I think we have it - though you could validly argue that it is only very new momentum (which is what I think you are getting at by saying it is 1-1, honours even). I would ask "would you rather be 1-1 coming of being thrashed or would you rather be 1-1 having given out a thrashing? I expect the Aussies have forgotten Cardiff. I doubt the Poms will have forgotten the Lords match.
In any event, the only post hoc validation for our ramblings will be provided by the men in white. I say we wager a pint and a burger on it!
johnfm said:
In any event, the only post hoc validation for our ramblings will be provided by the men in white. I say we wager a pint and a burger on it!
I'd only add that it seems everyone on this thread just wants to witness an epic battle, no one wants to see a white-wash and that is a credit to the people here that understand the game.
Allegedly there's some "tarts n sheilas" (joke) playing at cricket too (joke).
I'm going to watch a bit since I am utterly unqualified to comment on either team or any players, but boobs and cricket sounds quite promising
johnxjsc1985 said:
johnfm said:
Why on earth did they announce Bairstow in the squad today? Aus can now focus on prepping how to bowl to him. The really should have kept quiet on selection for as long as the rules provide.
I know the answer to this one..they are idiotsjohnfm said:
DJRC said:
Well Jimmy has taken wickets in every Test country on every surface. The last test was the first in something like 60odd he had failed to take a wicket - that makes it a statistical anomaly in anyones book.
The two aspects that do cause me worry are Lythe and Ballance. Lythe doesn't impress me, its that simple. Ballance I think has a long term future, but currently he is flat out form and in MS, Aus have a bowler who will keep heaping pressure on you not allowing for mistakes with MJ at the other end ready to blast away when he is in form. Now no offence but so far its one test he shipped a shedload of runs for one wicket and one test he has come good.
Bell deserves another test but Id let him know it was last chance saloon again - he tends to order the whole bottle of Scotch when he knows its time!
Same with Root and Smith to me. Both are the current star batsmen for their teams and both have dominated one match each. That makes things level.
So to me the pressure points are equal at one match each. I think the next match is capable of being won by either side.
Totally agree re: Anderson. Lords match is an outlier. How on earth coudl you drop him? No way.The two aspects that do cause me worry are Lythe and Ballance. Lythe doesn't impress me, its that simple. Ballance I think has a long term future, but currently he is flat out form and in MS, Aus have a bowler who will keep heaping pressure on you not allowing for mistakes with MJ at the other end ready to blast away when he is in form. Now no offence but so far its one test he shipped a shedload of runs for one wicket and one test he has come good.
Bell deserves another test but Id let him know it was last chance saloon again - he tends to order the whole bottle of Scotch when he knows its time!
Same with Root and Smith to me. Both are the current star batsmen for their teams and both have dominated one match each. That makes things level.
So to me the pressure points are equal at one match each. I think the next match is capable of being won by either side.
The problem with your balance analysis is that you are (1) only looking at the last two tests; and (2) you are ignoring momentum.
(1) I would consider the batting and bowling form going back a few more tests, say 3-4 months. Aus smashed the WI away from home. Eng drew with both the WI and NZ (relinquishing a 1-0 lead in both series). On that analysis, I don't think you can dismiss MJ's bowling as 'lots of runs for a wicket or two in Cardiff' and Lords as an outlier. If anything, Cardiff is the outlier.
(2) Momentum. I think we have it - though you could validly argue that it is only very new momentum (which is what I think you are getting at by saying it is 1-1, honours even). I would ask "would you rather be 1-1 coming of being thrashed or would you rather be 1-1 having given out a thrashing? I expect the Aussies have forgotten Cardiff. I doubt the Poms will have forgotten the Lords match.
In any event, the only post hoc validation for our ramblings will be provided by the men in white. I say we wager a pint and a burger on it!
Momentum is cobblers. Otherwise England would be 2-0 up. Its an instant nonsense argument.
Cardiff isn't the outlier for MJ simply because he has ALWAYS been s
te in England. He has always lacked control and the skill to control the ball and the mental strength to withstand a constant barracking. He has had one decent bowling test previously in England - indeed until Lords his batting has been by far his strongest suit in England!Now, Im quite prepared to change my mind if he continues to have a good series and show control. To my mind its the same argument you lot put against Jimmy in Aus till he put a performance in across a series and we won the Ashes out there. If Mitch does it over here then can't say fairer than that.
I never care about momentum in all honesty. Its a media/fan thing and as these threads and the F1 threads only ever show - fans talk b
ks!Interesting opinion re: momentum.
The thrashing at Lords isn't evidence that 'performance momentum' doesn't exist. It may indicate that it isn't the ONLY component of winning a test, but having played a lot of sport over the years there is no way that recent success doesn't improve confidence. It is one less thing to think about. One less thing to eat away at confidence. The game, at this level where they can all hold a bat and bowl the ball, is mostly between the ears.
The thrashing at Lords isn't evidence that 'performance momentum' doesn't exist. It may indicate that it isn't the ONLY component of winning a test, but having played a lot of sport over the years there is no way that recent success doesn't improve confidence. It is one less thing to think about. One less thing to eat away at confidence. The game, at this level where they can all hold a bat and bowl the ball, is mostly between the ears.
Edited by johnfm on Tuesday 21st July 22:04
Gargamel said:
Can't believe anyone would seriously drop Andersen. The man has 400+ test wickets and is our best bowler! ...
How many wickets in the last 4-6 tests?There is no doubt he's been great. I just wonder whether he's on the wane.
(Just reading the reports that this is Bell's last chance - that doesn't even work with my three year old!).
Edited to add - I think the selectors needed to try something brave for the next test. They haven't.
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