The **BOXING** thread Vol 2

[andburg]

tuscaneer said:

Yiliterate said:

The weight situation is an interesting one. I read something by Johnny Nelson theorising that maybe Khan was struggling to make Welterweight and that was why he took the option of moving up rather than boiling himself down to 147lbs for fights against Brook and/or Garcia.

If Khan feels he's now more naturally a Light-Middleweight, then the fight agreed with Canelo is only 1lb above where he should be fighting anyway. The other thing that might come into play is a re-hydration clause. It wouldn't surprise me if there was an agreement that as well as a 155lbs weigh-in limit, the max. they could re-hydrate to was maybe 165lbs, to stop Alvrarez putting on a stone and a half by fight night.

Personally, I think Khan-Brook will still happen - as tusc says, as long as he doesn't embarrass himself, Khan can still come out with his standing in tact, even if he loses. However, it's probably fair to say the chances the fight will be this year have receded (assuming a Wembley fight rather than Vegas) and, if/when it does take place, will more likely be at Light-Middle than Welter...and as Brook is a lump himself, a step up in weight might be something Brook actually welcomes.

i was still reading your post and thinking that i would mention brook's size then you beat me to the punch mate. when i met him at the secret signing event i remember thinking that he was very thick set for his height.

i can easily see khan/brook happening at light middle rather than at welter.

i'll bet you a pound to a pinch that there will be a rehydration clause limiting canelo , and i think you're on the money at mid 160s.......given that he usually comes in at low 170s that should help khan a bit

You're not wrong, being a local lad I met Kell in the casino and he's huge for the weight.


There is Kell (146lb fight weight) and Nav Mansouri(156lb fight weight) at a training camp a week or so ago....tell me who's the bigger guy?

Its a tough call for this fight, not really seen Khan too bothered by body shots which Canelo will try to slow him down with. The question for me will be Khans ability to stay out of trouble round 8 onwards. Alexander is a far less imposing figure to keep off then Canelo, it will be much harder to follow that same gameplan. I'm also not sure those quick shots he used on Alexander will have enough sting to be effective against Canelo.

Canelo is beatable and Khan has the tools to do it but I see a late stoppage with Khan laid o nthe canvas

[FredClogs]

I watched 4 hours of Alvarez fights on Youtube last night, from Matthew Hatton and Ryan Rhodes to Mayweather and Cotto again. I haven't changed my mind, he is a bit plodding and flat footed but his head movement is very sharp and as we all know his combinations and power are absolutely awesome. Whilst Khan may have the hand speed and footwork to trouble him early rounds (Austin Trout certainly looked the part against Canelo for half the fight) Khan's biggest flaw has always been getting dragged into exchanging when he's no need to, he's too brave (or daft) for his own good sometimes and I give him next to no chance of dealing with Canelo's power. I also think Canelo may well come into the ring on the night 10lbs or more heavier than Khan, basically he hasn't got a snow ball in hells chance. Won't stop me getting the PPV and cheering him on though!

[RockyBalboa]

Khan has massive balls to make this fight but is it really because he wants a challenge or is he cashing out? I know he has wanted a big fight in some time and this could be it but the gap in weight on fight night will be too much.

I hope he pulls it off but I really doubt he can take the power and weight of Canelo. If Khan, by some miracle, pulls this off, he should be considered for ATG status(!) and this, for me, redeems his recent inactivity - too many people hate Khan for for his background and religion.

I don't see how the fight adds to Canelo's legacy at all. Khan really is a natural 140-147 lb fighter and Canelo has been fighting at his own catchweight of 155 lbs whilst weighing in around 170 lbs on fight night!

One thing for sure, Brook and Hearn really need to step up their competition and stop calling out Khan every two minutes. If the fight happens, it will happen but don't make it into a Witter-Hatton situation.

Edited by RockyBalboa on Wednesday 3rd February 10:19

[MitchmachineUAE]

Surely way too many miles left in his tank to cash out on this fight. Can't see that happening one bit.

It is a gutsy fight to take and if he pulls it off it'll be a career defining moment for him.

I think there is a much finer margin between a Brook vs. Khan fight than there was between Witter vs. Hatton. I still think Brook vs. Khan will happen but I struggle to see it this year. Khan always has a period of inactivity following Ramadan so I can't see him fighting again until late September at the very earliest. Beat Canelo and there will likely be bigger blockbuster offers coming from the US to take up a late 2016 slot for him. A close fought defeat to Canelo and the prospect of taking a smaller split of the purse against Brook becomes a more likely probability for later in the year. Although recent history tells us that Khan's camp might not want to entertain that (bigger name than Brook etc).

Fun to speculate but who knows what might happen as none of us saw yesterdays announcement coming.

[WCZ]

1.4 on Alvarez @ coral - free money. might put a sizable bet on.
can't possibly see how Kahn can win this fight.

[Fittster]

Alvarez is dropping in my estimations all the time, duck GGG to fight Khan

[Yiliterate]

Fittster said:

Alvarez is dropping in my estimations all the time, duck GGG to fight Khan

Don't think there's really a need for the winkie there mate...Canelo has never shown any great enthusiasm for that fight since day 1!

[Fittster]

Yiliterate said:

Fittster said:

Alvarez is dropping in my estimations all the time, duck GGG to fight Khan

Don't think there's really a need for the winkie there mate...Canelo has never shown any great enthusiasm for that fight since day 1!

I did mean a rolling eye smiley but I got it wrong and editing a one line post makes you look a bit of a div.

I thought GGG was a mandatory for Alvarez, so I'm hoping he'll get stripped of his belt.

The whole middleweight division is a bit of a farce at the moment with two of the champions refusing to fight GGG.

[MitchmachineUAE]

True, Canelo was probably the biggest fight for him at Middleweight. So step up to Super, he'd be a very lanky Welterweight if they tried to boil him down any.

There are a few more guys in that division that can bang too so it could setup some interesting fights.

The thing is that he is seen as being that good that even a loss to him is not going to be seen as a kind of career ending defeat. I'm sure it'd still be a good pay day for someone too, so I don't get it either.

[Yiliterate]

Fittster said:

Yiliterate said:

Fittster said:

Alvarez is dropping in my estimations all the time, duck GGG to fight Khan

Don't think there's really a need for the winkie there mate...Canelo has never shown any great enthusiasm for that fight since day 1!

I did mean a rolling eye smiley but I got it wrong and editing a one line post makes you look a bit of a div.

I thought GGG was a mandatory for Alvarez, so I'm hoping he'll get stripped of his belt.

The whole middleweight division is a bit of a farce at the moment with two of the champions refusing to fight GGG.

That's what I was speculating on the previous page - has Golovkin been shafted or been paid off?! Personally, I think the latter. Canelo's negotiating position from the start has been he'd only consider fighting GGG at 155lbs or he'd vacate and go back down to Light-Middle; while the WBC were explicit that Canelo had to defend against GGG next. So, assuming GGG didn't want to shift from 160lbs and that Canelo wasn't bluffing, the fight wasn't happening anyway. As such, I think they've paid Golovkin off not to enforce the mandatory (and presumably the WBC have said that as long as GGG is happy, so are they), so Canelo-Khan can be promoted as a World Title fight. Once that's done and dusted, GGG fights the winner in a massive unification fight or, should the winner still not fancy it, GGG gets the vacant belt, which is where he would be now if he enfored the mandatory, only a few hundred thousand dollars richer!

[Bring on the clowns]

Weight wise, I think they could male the Canelo - Golovkin fight at 160lb or any weight and come fight night Alvarez would be heavier. From what I understand Glolovkin doesn't put much weight on after weigh in whereas Alvarez is renowned for it, not far behind Chavez Jr, who seems to think he's a natural cruiserweight!

Also, even if Alvarez and Khan were the same weight exactly on the night, Alvarez would punch much harder. From what we've seen of his punch resistance there also seems no way Khan can hurt or stop Alvarez, probably not hurt (sting) him enough to make him wary or slow his attacks. Once he gets into the groove and Khan slows or makes a slip I can only envisage him catching Khan with enough to hurt him and then, even if it's not a single shot KO will, chances are batter him to the stop. Alvarez by KO or ref stoppage for me.

If Khan does manage to keep his movement and speed (esp. having gone up in weight which won't help) and that 100% concentration, and wins, it will be a miraculous performance. His best so far. Just can't see it.

[A10]

My knowledge of the sport is sorely lacking compared to many on here, so I can I ask, is GGG really that good? I've never known a fighter avoided as much as him. Even Tyson in his prime had plenty of opponents (sacrificial lambs). Are fighters just more savvy these days? Does a loss on your record mean more than it used to? Would GGG have held his own in the golden era of middleweights?

[FredClogs]

A10 said:

My knowledge of the sport is sorely lacking compared to many on here, so I can I ask, is GGG really that good? I've never known a fighter avoided as much as him. Even Tyson in his prime had plenty of opponents (sacrificial lambs). Are fighters just more savvy these days? Does a loss on your record mean more than it used to? Would GGG have held his own in the golden era of middleweights?

Yes he's very good, there's a lot of breakdown stuff and analysis on Youtube, I don't believe he's avoided just because of how good he is or how hard he hits (or how hard he can be hit though) I think fighters as sportsmen in general want to test themselves against the best but they have agents and managers and promoters and as a business the big money in boxing is centered around American TV PPVs and Golovkin just doesn't sell PPVs in America, or indeed anywhere else, the Americans, Mexican and South American fighters sell millions, I think Golovkin sold 150,000 PPV for his last fight at Madison Sq Gardens against a Canadian super star...

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/10/21/9587146/golo...

Cotto vs Canelo did 900,000

[Bring on the clowns]

A10 said:

My knowledge of the sport is sorely lacking compared to many on here, so I can I ask, is GGG really that good? I've never known a fighter avoided as much as him. Even Tyson in his prime had plenty of opponents (sacrificial lambs). Are fighters just more savvy these days? Does a loss on your record mean more than it used to? Would GGG have held his own in the golden era of middleweights?

I've been watching since the 60s and done a lot of training and sparring, including with some top notch amateurs and pros, and yes, to me he is right up there with my favourite fighters and as exciting as any. He takes more punches than he needs to (or should?) but doesn't seem to care as it's part of his please the fans and personal like to fight mentality. His footwork and control of the ring, of distance and opponents is spooky - he basically bullies people into being where he wants and to doing what he needs - and his punch technique and power first rate. He's the best around imho, now Mayweather has gone(?)

The oft reported (maybe exaggerated?) stories of how Kovalev wants no part of him after sparring is interesting, as is clips of him sparring a bigger Chavez Jr. He was clearly taking it really easy but Chavez then started going for it and hitting hard/taking liberties. Soon got put in his place!

Edited by Bring on the clowns on Wednesday 3rd February 19:22

[mikebradford]

Bring on the clowns said:

as is clips of him sparring a bigger Chavez Jr. He was clearly taking it really easy but Chavez then started going for it and hitting hard/taking liberties. Soon got put in his place!

I just watched that on Youtube, GGG definitely showed his skills even in that scenario. I imagine Chavez Jr knew he had been schooled afterwards

[A10]

Just watched it too. Only one guy in charge there.

I read the Americans have been warming to him since he moved over there, so that should help PPV figures. Be a travesty if TV money impacts the career of someone who could go down as one of the greats.

[Bring on the clowns]

Glad you found it! I loved how the cocksure Chavez tried it on, going beyond what they'd started and probably agreed, then got 'told'.

[mikebradford]

After watching that vid, i watched a few more GGG vids
Interesting comments from the trainer Abel Sanchez claiming that Kovalev was either scared of, or respectful of GGG's power in sparring.
Which may be more believable after watching his amateur fights.

Seeing him beat the likes of Andre Dirrell, and then even with head gear putting Lucian Bute on his arse.
Given Lucian Bute, and Andre Dirrell both went on to fight at higher weight than GG. It shows he carried a little bit more power than them at that original weight.

Youtube GGG vs Lucian Bute

[A10]

The ones that stand out for me are:-

KO of Geale: that shouldn't really be physically possible. Amazes me everytime I see it.

KO of Macklin: body shot that left Macklin in writhing in agony.

[FredClogs]

This has been posted up here before but it's a very good insight into what GGG does so well and why it works...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vijD09_O8ek