The **BOXING** thread Vol 2
Discussion
Big problem for AJ IMO is that he hasnt been boxing long enough. He started boxing at 18, Mike Tyson had fought 15 professional fights at 18, never mind his time as an amateur.
That means things like head movement and footwork are still very forced, and Im wondering how much he will improve over time.
He's not fought anyone good as yet, and I want to see how he handles adversity, as well as manages a fight where his opponent has good basic skills and takes him into a war, although to be fair he can only fight the competition that is available, and the HW division isnt exactly brimming with great talent. As a result he may well appear a lot better than he is, and his weaknesses may never get exposed.
That means things like head movement and footwork are still very forced, and Im wondering how much he will improve over time.
He's not fought anyone good as yet, and I want to see how he handles adversity, as well as manages a fight where his opponent has good basic skills and takes him into a war, although to be fair he can only fight the competition that is available, and the HW division isnt exactly brimming with great talent. As a result he may well appear a lot better than he is, and his weaknesses may never get exposed.
AJ is a left, right, left hook, move... specialist. He's no Ali or Tyson but he could be a Foreman, Vlad or Frank Bruno which is still very high praise, he's not a bad boxer by any stretch of the imagination. He has a very fast jab, and fast hands, an incredibly hard right hand, he's huge and stands up straight and appears to have at least a decent chin and gas tank (based on what we saw in the White fight). He doesn't do the Haye or Foreman esque head movement because he doesn't have to, he's 6ft 7 and stands up straight, even for someone his own size that make him very hard to land on.
If he can stick to doing the basics very well he can beat almost everything put in front of him whilst he still has the desire and physical fitness. But I'd agree with those that are saying Haye would cause him all sorts of troubles, but then Vlad dealt with Haye more than convincingly, styles make fights and generally (mind goes back to Naseem vs Barrera) the unconventional guy will come unstuck by the fitter, stronger guy doing the basics very very well. For me he definitely beats Fury, horse meat or no horse meat.
If he can stick to doing the basics very well he can beat almost everything put in front of him whilst he still has the desire and physical fitness. But I'd agree with those that are saying Haye would cause him all sorts of troubles, but then Vlad dealt with Haye more than convincingly, styles make fights and generally (mind goes back to Naseem vs Barrera) the unconventional guy will come unstuck by the fitter, stronger guy doing the basics very very well. For me he definitely beats Fury, horse meat or no horse meat.
Fact is, he didn't need to show any variety against Breazeale as he was easy to hit and offered little danger in return. Breazeale took some serious shots in that fight, anyone see his face after? He took a serious beating so is clearly very cabable of taking a punch.
Fact remains, again, as Breazeale didn't pose Joshua any real danger, we've not learned a great deal about what AJ can do and how he can adapt. What we did learn is that he can be patient and bide his time and not throw the kitchen sink at someone unecessarily.
I still consider Haye a seriously dangerous customer. We've not see fleeting footwork from AJ and until we do, I think Haye would cause him some issues. Not to mention Haye hits very hard and is very elusive.
Let's just move on. AJ got the job done well against a big and tough man, what more can he do.
Parker will be game, another undefeated fighter, big, quite athletic and has reasonably fast hand speed, so it's certainly a step up for AJ.
Until he gets in the ring with better guys, we won't know what level he's at, simple as that.
Fact remains, again, as Breazeale didn't pose Joshua any real danger, we've not learned a great deal about what AJ can do and how he can adapt. What we did learn is that he can be patient and bide his time and not throw the kitchen sink at someone unecessarily.
I still consider Haye a seriously dangerous customer. We've not see fleeting footwork from AJ and until we do, I think Haye would cause him some issues. Not to mention Haye hits very hard and is very elusive.
Let's just move on. AJ got the job done well against a big and tough man, what more can he do.
Parker will be game, another undefeated fighter, big, quite athletic and has reasonably fast hand speed, so it's certainly a step up for AJ.
Until he gets in the ring with better guys, we won't know what level he's at, simple as that.
Thunderhead said:
Big problem for AJ IMO is that he hasnt been boxing long enough. He started boxing at 18, Mike Tyson had fought 15 professional fights at 18, never mind his time as an amateur.
That means things like head movement and footwork are still very forced, and Im wondering how much he will improve over time.
He's not fought anyone good as yet, and I want to see how he handles adversity, as well as manages a fight where his opponent has good basic skills and takes him into a war, although to be fair he can only fight the competition that is available, and the HW division isnt exactly brimming with great talent. As a result he may well appear a lot better than he is, and his weaknesses may never get exposed.
Although not a 'great' boxer; Dylan Whyte is pretty tasty and certainly hit AJ with a few hard shots.That means things like head movement and footwork are still very forced, and Im wondering how much he will improve over time.
He's not fought anyone good as yet, and I want to see how he handles adversity, as well as manages a fight where his opponent has good basic skills and takes him into a war, although to be fair he can only fight the competition that is available, and the HW division isnt exactly brimming with great talent. As a result he may well appear a lot better than he is, and his weaknesses may never get exposed.
I personally think with AJ that anyone who gets caught flush with his right is going to become rattled at the least. I think Haye is a little old to take on AJ even in his current status.
Don't think age comes into it. Haye would argue that he's in the best shape that he has ever been in as a heavyweight. Yet to see that proven against a decent opponent since his comeback but he is still quick and has always trained very hard.
I'm sure that AJ, Wlad and Fury etc. will duck and dodge a match with him until it becomes a mandatory. The fact that he still hasn't fought a decent opponent since his comeback will be used against him to mask the fact that he's being avoided due to his in ring prowess.
I'm sure that AJ, Wlad and Fury etc. will duck and dodge a match with him until it becomes a mandatory. The fact that he still hasn't fought a decent opponent since his comeback will be used against him to mask the fact that he's being avoided due to his in ring prowess.
^^ Agree with that age is not the main factor.
Haye is 35 by the way. That's not very old for a heavyweight- not when we are talking about a one off fight. A lot of boxers are in better condition in their 30's than 20's for a variety of reasons.
His power, speed, superior movement, superior experience and also inevitable mind games he will play will all present a huge challenge to AJ- on last nights performance Haye would knock him out in my opinion. If the fight is next year I would call it as 50:50. I would be surprised if AJ takes this fight though- he has a lot to lose and from his point of view not much to gain.
Parker is a great fight for AJ hope it happens, Parker is very quick, dangerous, and will come to fight. Eddie Hearn really has to get AJ some better opposition than Breazele. As people have said, 17 fights in we still don't know how good he is the opposition has been so poor.
Haye is 35 by the way. That's not very old for a heavyweight- not when we are talking about a one off fight. A lot of boxers are in better condition in their 30's than 20's for a variety of reasons.
His power, speed, superior movement, superior experience and also inevitable mind games he will play will all present a huge challenge to AJ- on last nights performance Haye would knock him out in my opinion. If the fight is next year I would call it as 50:50. I would be surprised if AJ takes this fight though- he has a lot to lose and from his point of view not much to gain.
Parker is a great fight for AJ hope it happens, Parker is very quick, dangerous, and will come to fight. Eddie Hearn really has to get AJ some better opposition than Breazele. As people have said, 17 fights in we still don't know how good he is the opposition has been so poor.
Having A Barth said:
Don't think age comes into it. Haye would argue that he's in the best shape that he has ever been in as a heavyweight. Yet to see that proven against a decent opponent since his comeback but he is still quick and has always trained very hard.
I'm sure that AJ, Wlad and Fury etc. will duck and dodge a match with him until it becomes a mandatory. The fact that he still hasn't fought a decent opponent since his comeback will be used against him to mask the fact that he's being avoided due to his in ring prowess.
I think saying Fury will duck him is a bit strong. Haye ducked Fury multiple times, so now Fury won't give Haye the pay day he craves. I'm sure that AJ, Wlad and Fury etc. will duck and dodge a match with him until it becomes a mandatory. The fact that he still hasn't fought a decent opponent since his comeback will be used against him to mask the fact that he's being avoided due to his in ring prowess.
stick to the basics in terms of shot selection (ones/twos/lead hook) and make sure your footwork is flawless. nobody seems to worry about footwork but being able to pressure and push people where YOU want them positioned is a craft all on it's own. golovkin is a master at this.
wlad is seen as one dimensional, and haye is seen as having flair and varied punch output....which he has in spades,,, but what happened when they fought? wlad's "keeping it simple" punch output left minimal gaps for david to exploit and given how slippery haye is he still got shut down by klitschko's superior footwork.....
i don't have a problem with aj keeping it simple. however where he lacks is his footwork. he's a bit of a shuffler i feel.....not in the same way joe louis shuffled forward hiding what he was doing and "creeping" into range before turning your lights out...he seems to shuffle forward following too much......and that's why i think haye would have more success against joshua than he did against klitschko.
wlad is seen as one dimensional, and haye is seen as having flair and varied punch output....which he has in spades,,, but what happened when they fought? wlad's "keeping it simple" punch output left minimal gaps for david to exploit and given how slippery haye is he still got shut down by klitschko's superior footwork.....
i don't have a problem with aj keeping it simple. however where he lacks is his footwork. he's a bit of a shuffler i feel.....not in the same way joe louis shuffled forward hiding what he was doing and "creeping" into range before turning your lights out...he seems to shuffle forward following too much......and that's why i think haye would have more success against joshua than he did against klitschko.
Don't get the love for Haye.
He'd be at least 36 before fighting AJ.
He's short
The best HW scalp on his CV is Del Boy.
I don't see this power everyone harps on about. Knocking out Audley doesn't many you have killer power.
He's not fought anyone credible since 2012.
Haye may have name recognition but that's as much about his reality TV appearances as his boxing. Would someone who liked him in 'I'm a celebrity' stump up for a PPV? Doubtful.
If AJ fights Parker next and wins, which isn't certain. Would he really earn more for fighting Haye than taking on either Wilder or Fury?
He'd be at least 36 before fighting AJ.
He's short
The best HW scalp on his CV is Del Boy.
I don't see this power everyone harps on about. Knocking out Audley doesn't many you have killer power.
He's not fought anyone credible since 2012.
Haye may have name recognition but that's as much about his reality TV appearances as his boxing. Would someone who liked him in 'I'm a celebrity' stump up for a PPV? Doubtful.
If AJ fights Parker next and wins, which isn't certain. Would he really earn more for fighting Haye than taking on either Wilder or Fury?
Fittster said:
Don't get the love for Haye.
He'd be at least 36 before fighting AJ.
He's short
The best HW scalp on his CV is Del Boy.
I don't see this power everyone harps on about. Knocking out Audley doesn't many you have killer power.
He's not fought anyone credible since 2012.
Haye may have name recognition but that's as much about his reality TV appearances as his boxing. Would someone who liked him in 'I'm a celebrity' stump up for a PPV? Doubtful.
If AJ fights Parker next and wins, which isn't certain. Would he really earn more for fighting Haye than taking on either Wilder or Fury?
Yep, Wilder doesn't bring much to the table money wise. Fury does but no where near what Haye brings. Haye just made He'd be at least 36 before fighting AJ.
He's short
The best HW scalp on his CV is Del Boy.
I don't see this power everyone harps on about. Knocking out Audley doesn't many you have killer power.
He's not fought anyone credible since 2012.
Haye may have name recognition but that's as much about his reality TV appearances as his boxing. Would someone who liked him in 'I'm a celebrity' stump up for a PPV? Doubtful.
If AJ fights Parker next and wins, which isn't certain. Would he really earn more for fighting Haye than taking on either Wilder or Fury?
a few million fighting two nobodies.
I see Haye going after Wilder if Wilder doesn't duck him. That would be an easy win IMHO for Haye. I don't think AJ will fight Haye in the near future. More likely to see him versus Fury/Klitch
Edited by ExocetApe on Wednesday 29th June 15:34
Fittster said:
Don't get the love for Haye.
He'd be at least 36 before fighting AJ.
He's short
The best HW scalp on his CV is Del Boy.
I don't see this power everyone harps on about. Knocking out Audley doesn't many you have killer power.
He's not fought anyone credible since 2012.
Haye may have name recognition but that's as much about his reality TV appearances as his boxing. Would someone who liked him in 'I'm a celebrity' stump up for a PPV? Doubtful.
If AJ fights Parker next and wins, which isn't certain. Would he really earn more for fighting Haye than taking on either Wilder or Fury?
Yep, Wilder doesn't bring much to the table money wise. Fury does but no where near what Haye brings. Haye just made He'd be at least 36 before fighting AJ.
He's short
The best HW scalp on his CV is Del Boy.
I don't see this power everyone harps on about. Knocking out Audley doesn't many you have killer power.
He's not fought anyone credible since 2012.
Haye may have name recognition but that's as much about his reality TV appearances as his boxing. Would someone who liked him in 'I'm a celebrity' stump up for a PPV? Doubtful.
If AJ fights Parker next and wins, which isn't certain. Would he really earn more for fighting Haye than taking on either Wilder or Fury?
a few million fighting two nobodies.
I see Haye going after Wilder if Wilder doesn't duck him. That would be an easy win IMHO for Haye. I don't think AJ will fight Haye in the near future. More likely to see him versus Fury/Klitch
Edited by ExocetApe on Wednesday 29th June 23:39
I wouldn't take Wilder for granted at all, if he beats Arreola he's got a good case for being the champ with the best CV (Wlad aside obviously depending on how that pans out with the rematch etc...) He's 36 wins, 35 KOs, been in with equal to Fury, AJ and Haye combined and he's a genuine wild man.
FredClogs said:
I wouldn't take Wilder for granted at all, if he beats Arreola he's got a good case for being the champ with the best CV (Wlad aside obviously depending on how that pans out with the rematch etc...) He's 36 wins, 35 KOs, been in with equal to Fury, AJ and Haye combined and he's a genuine wild man.
It's a shame about the Povetkin fight. That would have earned Wilder a lot more respect than fighting Arreola.I watched Parker's last fight. I genuinely don't see anything that would concern AJ.
Wilder would be a big money draw if he came over here, the show was pumped up enough and they did it at Wembley (so next summer perhaps). The UK fans would pack that venue twice over to watch that fight. People would, however, pay double to watch AJ have a crack at knocking Fury out.
I think the commercial plan is to get AJ to the point of being a big name in the US of A, and then setting up the fight with Wilder. That would probably be beyond next summer though.
Wilder would be a big money draw if he came over here, the show was pumped up enough and they did it at Wembley (so next summer perhaps). The UK fans would pack that venue twice over to watch that fight. People would, however, pay double to watch AJ have a crack at knocking Fury out.
I think the commercial plan is to get AJ to the point of being a big name in the US of A, and then setting up the fight with Wilder. That would probably be beyond next summer though.
Yiliterate said:
Fittster said:
Chad_Hugo said:
It is very interesting if he takes the Haye fight. As much as I like AJ and want him to do well, based on what he did last night he would get the shock of his life vs Haye.
Which credible HW has Haye ever beaten? I think Haye vs Joshua would be a very intriguing fight (assuming Haye can get close to his previous level).
I would like to see people like Whyte, Price and Breazeale fight each other. Whyte was beaten by AJ, but has the injury to talk about; Price was the next big thing until Thompson turned up, and Breazeale is now being dismissed as being talentless but with Homer Simpson syndrome. Even better, Whyte vs Haye, the winner takes on AJ!
Yiliterate said:
Well, we're in a bit of an tricky time at the moment. I think there are actually quite a few credible heavyweights around...it's just a fair chunk of them potentially have failed drugs tests hanging over them: Tyson Fury, Povetkin, Teper, Browne, Hughie Fury... 
I like the comedian suggestion of having a separate class for the drug takers. Imagine having the 'Doped Heavyweight' division! I would gladly pay to see two beefed up animals beat the s
t out of each other (and giggle whilst doing it).StuTheGrouch said:
I like the comedian suggestion of having a separate class for the drug takers. Imagine having the 'Doped Heavyweight' division! I would gladly pay to see two beefed up animals beat the st out of each other (and giggle whilst doing it).
Errr... It's available and called the UFC, get on Fight Pass and watch anything pre 2015, they're jacked to the gills.t out of each other (and giggle whilst doing it).StuTheGrouch said:
Yiliterate said:
Fittster said:
Chad_Hugo said:
It is very interesting if he takes the Haye fight. As much as I like AJ and want him to do well, based on what he did last night he would get the shock of his life vs Haye.
Which credible HW has Haye ever beaten? I think Haye vs Joshua would be a very intriguing fight (assuming Haye can get close to his previous level).
I would like to see people like Whyte, Price and Breazeale fight each other. Whyte was beaten by AJ, but has the injury to talk about; Price was the next big thing until Thompson turned up, and Breazeale is now being dismissed as being talentless but with Homer Simpson syndrome. Even better, Whyte vs Haye, the winner takes on AJ!
Would love to see that happen, not the most high profile but has got to be one of the most exciting fights that can be made.
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