The **BOXING** thread Vol 2
Discussion
Yiliterate said:
FredClogs said:
Badou Jack is a decent argument for a return to 15 rounder's.
What do you mean by that mate?Edited by tuscaneer on Monday 16th January 08:23
Yiliterate said:
I'm surprised not one official scorecard had it to Jack. I thought it was pretty even going into the last, maybe a round either way. Certainly felt the first card was wide; put it this way, if DeGale hadn't gone down and instead had shaded the round, that card would have had him winning by 5...!
I thought it was a great display of guts and fortitude by DeGale but also was a reminder that he isn't quite the silky-skilled, slick boxer that his reputation would indicate. Once he gets past his initial freshness in a fight, quite a lot of his attacks are wild, winging shots (nothing particularly wrong in that per se, given he has long arms for a Super-Middleweight and that plays to his physical advantage), but begins to look crude for a 'slickster' against a solid and tight defence (where the majority of that is taken on the arms and gloves), particularly when the opponent can then counter with something tidy.
Here's a question I found myself asking at the end of the fight...money aside, if I were Callum Smith, who out of those two would I want in the opposite corner when finally fighting for a world title? What do you guys think...?
jack went up in my estimations from a skillset point of view after saturday night...degale showed a massive amount of heart that i didn't think he had...knowing what he CAN do from a pure boxing point of view i have to ask myself ....did he lose his temperament or did jack's efficient style present him with less opportunities to turn on the flashy stuff??I thought it was a great display of guts and fortitude by DeGale but also was a reminder that he isn't quite the silky-skilled, slick boxer that his reputation would indicate. Once he gets past his initial freshness in a fight, quite a lot of his attacks are wild, winging shots (nothing particularly wrong in that per se, given he has long arms for a Super-Middleweight and that plays to his physical advantage), but begins to look crude for a 'slickster' against a solid and tight defence (where the majority of that is taken on the arms and gloves), particularly when the opponent can then counter with something tidy.
Here's a question I found myself asking at the end of the fight...money aside, if I were Callum Smith, who out of those two would I want in the opposite corner when finally fighting for a world title? What do you guys think...?
if you have to ask yourself who imposed who's style on the other then i think that jack had to adapt less than degale..
for me a draw seemed fair after degale's late rally in 9,10 and 11 was undermined by jack's knockdown and dominance of the 12th....
if i was callum smith right now i would feel that my stalking body attack would work better on degale who might build up an early lead but would get untidy more easily than jack.
jack would tuck up tight all night and draw mistakes whereas degale would perhaps get into brawl mode and leave himself open...jack had him hurt badly a few times and smith seems to punch way harder than jack
tuscaneer said:
Yiliterate said:
FredClogs said:
Badou Jack is a decent argument for a return to 15 rounder's.
What do you mean by that mate?Edited by tuscaneer on Monday 16th January 08:23
Anyway, I just feel like Jack and fighters of his ilk would be best suited to the longer 15 round format, he has 3 draws in his pro career of 24 fights... That's pretty unusual. Whilst I agree De Gale was the better boxer, fast hands and feet and he did show amazing courage, I got the feeling Jack could have done another 10 rounds at that pace, De Gale's shots were getting increasingly "cuffy" and held no real threat to Jack. Jack's got a sort of rigid and controlled durability that has to be commended, it's not massively exciting but if you can't beat the guy in 12 rounds and he can't beat you then the obvious thing to do is to extend the fight, no? I just think he's built mentally and physically for longer than 12 rounds, unfortunate and largely irrelevant I know as the game is only 12 rounds long! I'm not sure the referee looked fit to go another 3 rounds though!
I'm a huge admirer of De Gale, I like him and his style of boxing but I think Callum Smith will walk him down and beat him up with one twos as well.
Personally, I thought the ref was lucky not to get a standing 8-count in the fifth. Though he didn't technically touch down, it was only by hanging onto Jack and then the ropes that he avoided the canvas... 
The question about who Smith would prefer looks to be moot anyway, as it seems Jack will head up to Light-Heavy and Smith will fight Andre Dirrell for the vacant WBC belt. However, I think I'm leaning towards DeGale as Jack seems to have this uncanny knack of capitalising on an opponent's shortcomings; and given Smith's relative inexperience at world level, I could see Jack just finding a way through.
Regarding Jack looking like a 15 round fighter, you'd have to say that was all the more impressive if he is genuinely struggling to make the weight...
The question about who Smith would prefer looks to be moot anyway, as it seems Jack will head up to Light-Heavy and Smith will fight Andre Dirrell for the vacant WBC belt. However, I think I'm leaning towards DeGale as Jack seems to have this uncanny knack of capitalising on an opponent's shortcomings; and given Smith's relative inexperience at world level, I could see Jack just finding a way through.
Regarding Jack looking like a 15 round fighter, you'd have to say that was all the more impressive if he is genuinely struggling to make the weight...
Just looking at the Super Middleweight division, thinking that GGG would destroy just about everyone in there at the moment. Canelo doesn't want to fight him which is very clear now so is it time for him to step up?
The division isn't what it was 5-10 years ago when Froch, Ward, Kessler, Abraham were all in their primes and going head to head in the Super 6.
The division isn't what it was 5-10 years ago when Froch, Ward, Kessler, Abraham were all in their primes and going head to head in the Super 6.
tuscaneer said:
FredClogs said:
Amirhussain said:
Looks like Audleys got Frank Warren a little pissed off
https://www.frankwarren.com/an-open-letter-to-frau...
In response to this, Harrison's open letter to the Eubanks
http://www.boxingnews24.com/2017/01/audley-harriso...
I recognize that posting style, I'm pretty sure Frank Warren is lurking the PH N,P&E forum... I don't lime Frank Warren he gives me the creeps but he's got a fair point, why Audley think anyone would listen to him is a bit weird.https://www.frankwarren.com/an-open-letter-to-frau...
In response to this, Harrison's open letter to the Eubanks
http://www.boxingnews24.com/2017/01/audley-harriso...
Edited by Amirhussain on Wednesday 11th January 20:46
hole there!!
FredClogs said:
I fell asleep last night in front of Sherlock, what a load of pants...
Anyway, I just feel like Jack and fighters of his ilk would be best suited to the longer 15 round format, he has 3 draws in his pro career of 24 fights... That's pretty unusual. Whilst I agree De Gale was the better boxer, fast hands and feet and he did show amazing courage, I got the feeling Jack could have done another 10 rounds at that pace, De Gale's shots were getting increasingly "cuffy" and held no real threat to Jack. Jack's got a sort of rigid and controlled durability that has to be commended, it's not massively exciting but if you can't beat the guy in 12 rounds and he can't beat you then the obvious thing to do is to extend the fight, no? I just think he's built mentally and physically for longer than 12 rounds, unfortunate and largely irrelevant I know as the game is only 12 rounds long! I'm not sure the referee looked fit to go another 3 rounds though!
I'm a huge admirer of De Gale, I like him and his style of boxing but I think Callum Smith will walk him down and beat him up with one twos as well.
i think you may be right about smith, his attack on the way in followed by that devastating salvo of body shots would slow him down for sureAnyway, I just feel like Jack and fighters of his ilk would be best suited to the longer 15 round format, he has 3 draws in his pro career of 24 fights... That's pretty unusual. Whilst I agree De Gale was the better boxer, fast hands and feet and he did show amazing courage, I got the feeling Jack could have done another 10 rounds at that pace, De Gale's shots were getting increasingly "cuffy" and held no real threat to Jack. Jack's got a sort of rigid and controlled durability that has to be commended, it's not massively exciting but if you can't beat the guy in 12 rounds and he can't beat you then the obvious thing to do is to extend the fight, no? I just think he's built mentally and physically for longer than 12 rounds, unfortunate and largely irrelevant I know as the game is only 12 rounds long! I'm not sure the referee looked fit to go another 3 rounds though!
I'm a huge admirer of De Gale, I like him and his style of boxing but I think Callum Smith will walk him down and beat him up with one twos as well.
Yiliterate said:
Personally, I thought the ref was lucky not to get a standing 8-count in the fifth. Though he didn't technically touch down, it was only by hanging onto Jack and then the ropes that he avoided the canvas...
The question about who Smith would prefer looks to be moot anyway, as it seems Jack will head up to Light-Heavy and Smith will fight Andre Dirrell for the vacant WBC belt. However, I think I'm leaning towards DeGale as Jack seems to have this uncanny knack of capitalising on an opponent's shortcomings; and given Smith's relative inexperience at world level, I could see Jack just finding a way through.
Regarding Jack looking like a 15 round fighter, you'd have to say that was all the more impressive if he is genuinely struggling to make the weight...
i think his old man would be turning in his grave shouting at him to man up and not flop all round the ringThe question about who Smith would prefer looks to be moot anyway, as it seems Jack will head up to Light-Heavy and Smith will fight Andre Dirrell for the vacant WBC belt. However, I think I'm leaning towards DeGale as Jack seems to have this uncanny knack of capitalising on an opponent's shortcomings; and given Smith's relative inexperience at world level, I could see Jack just finding a way through.
Regarding Jack looking like a 15 round fighter, you'd have to say that was all the more impressive if he is genuinely struggling to make the weight...
uk66fastback said:
Fraudley's letter is just embarrassing. There's hardly a wasted word in the Warren reply, good on him for exposing that 'carnage on canvas'!
he has gone right down in my estimations......and i didn't think that highly of him to begin with!!.....i would always defend him in arguments pointing out the difficulties of coming through as a pro after such a high profile signing on after an olympic gold....he's made millions out of getting flattened time and time again but still people like warren have given him yet more undeserved opportunities....f
k audley man,Having A Barth said:
Just looking at the Super Middleweight division, thinking that GGG would destroy just about everyone in there at the moment. Canelo doesn't want to fight him which is very clear now so is it time for him to step up?
The division isn't what it was 5-10 years ago when Froch, Ward, Kessler, Abraham were all in their primes and going head to head in the Super 6.
I think it would be very interesting to see Golovkin up at Super-Middleweight. For me, he’s a natural Middleweight…actually, he’s a pretty small Middleweight, frequently weighing in comfortably inside the 160lbs limit. As such, I don’t think a step-up in weight would suit him as much as it might fighters who are big (or struggling) at a particular weight. Consequently, I wouldn’t expect much change between the Middleweight version of Golovkin and the Super-Middleweight version…but there will be in terms of the opponent. Will he be quite as destructive against naturally bigger fighters; particularly if they had the toughness of a Froch, a Kessler or an Abraham of 3-4yrs ago (though doubtful if there is anyone with quite that level of durability currently operating at Super-Middleweight)? And would he be able to stalk his opponents in quite the same relentless manner if they had the ability to properly hurt him? It’s one thing standing your ground and absorbing Kell Brook’s shots, then smiling and beckoning him in again…something else when the opponent weighs 180-185lbs on fight-night and hits as hard as a Groves or a Callum Smith. The division isn't what it was 5-10 years ago when Froch, Ward, Kessler, Abraham were all in their primes and going head to head in the Super 6.
In a way, it’s unfortunately that Saturday’s fight ended in a draw…going up against a unified belt-holder and widely-accepted #1 Super-Middleweight might have been a big enough carrot for Golovkin to take that gamble. As things stand, I think he’ll be more inclined to continue to campaign at Middleweight for the time being – he’s got the Jacobs fight coming up and there’s still the WBO belt to pursue for the clean sweep. And personally, I think the Alvarez fight is still there to be made, which is still the biggest realistic fight out there for Golovkin. There just needs to be the right incentive for Alvarez to bite.
As I’ve argued on here before, if team GGG were absolutely intent on making the fight, the obvious incentive would be to offer a catchweight at 157-158lbs (bearing in mind the comments above around Golovkin making 160lbs with plenty to spare). Publicly, at least, they haven’t, so we can probably set that one aside. As such, the most likely incentive for Alvarez to make the fight would be, quite simply, if Golovkin doesn’t look good against Jacobs (having already shown some vulnerabilities against Brook). If that’s the case – and assuming Canelo comes through against Chavez Jr – I think there’s a pretty good chance that fight will start to come back onto the radar. Probably not straight away, mind; perhaps more likely Golden Boy will throw a big amount of cash in the direction of Billy Joe Saunders to fight for his WBO belt (maybe late summer/autumn), then start the back-and-forth for the rest of the year with an eye on Cinco de Mayo next year (by which time there’ll be another candle on Golovkin’s birthday cake). We may know a little more after 18th March
Edited by Yiliterate on Monday 16th January 18:33
tuscaneer said:
He didn't seem that convinced he expected either.He's always been a bit - open mouth, see what comes out.
tuscaneer said:
i think his old man would be turning in his grave shouting at him to man up and not flop all round the ring
Just had a look at his old man's career highlights; reffed Patterson-Johansson II, Ali-Frazier I and Foreman-Frazier I...and served under Gene Tunney in the Second World War! Steeped in heavyweight history!!!
By the way....just arrived, this delicious muhammad ali inscribed restaurant menu from his visit to Birmingham in August '83.....sadly showing the early signs of parkinsons in the signature bur a nice piece...
The real sexy bit???? It's from a dinner in his honour at RUSTIE LEE'S CARIBBEAN RESTAURANT!!!... now that makes it priceless in my eyes
BrerRabbit said:
Haven't you stopped just short of the big one?
2nd phase of tickets sold out yesterday in 90 minutes apparently(much to yiliterate's dispair i think!!).....they are pushing to break 90,000 with the layout i see.....which will surpass froch/groves2 and equal harvey/mcavoy as the biggest gate in british boxing history........makes you wonder what it must have felt like in soldiers field for tunney/dempsey....105,000 paid attendance but estimates run in at around 145,000....must have been a sight!tuscaneer said:
BrerRabbit said:
Haven't you stopped just short of the big one?
2nd phase of tickets sold out yesterday in 90 minutes apparently(much to yiliterate's dispair i think!!).....they are pushing to break 90,000 with the layout i see.....which will surpass froch/groves2 and equal harvey/mcavoy as the biggest gate in british boxing history........makes you wonder what it must have felt like in soldiers field for tunney/dempsey....105,000 paid attendance but estimates run in at around 145,000....must have been a sight!https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/comments/552g...
http://www.josportsinc.com/catalog/view.php?id=170...
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