The **BOXING** thread Vol 2
Discussion
tuscaneer said:
well.....he's had a furter 8 wins since haye, povetkin and pulev top tier legacy fights while thompson and wach were solid wins.....i suppose at least with the timing now it's certainly an age toll.....
They all laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the world was round... etc... etc...I know I'm prone to displays of contrarianism as any bored internet keyboard warrior should be but I did tell you so, and did put my money on Fury (but had him to win by KO) I'm not a massive fan of Fury as a person but it's plain that the combination of his size, speed and agility and overwhelming self belief will mean that a fighter like Vlad who is about precision and control and finding and exploiting his proponents rhythm and timing will never beat a guy like Fury, he's just too random, like a giant Naz. My worry was that Fury didn't really believe in himself and all the chat was bluster but when he started putting his hands behind his back in the 2nd or 3rd round it was clear to me that he had the better of Vlad and I don't see that changing - I doubt there will be a rematch, Vlad will not want anymore of this and I don't believe his public want to see it again either, you can't prepare for Fury other than just getting wound up into a beserk rage and trying to rip his head off, who can you get to spar with that can even copy what Fury did on Saturday night? I do think that Fury could well be beaten early rounds by a big aggressive all in puncher like Wilder or Joshua, so game on - the next few years could be very interesting for British heavyweights.
lemmingjames said:
How comes quite a few are dismissing Dylan White or is it due to not believing that he will beat AJ on the 12th December?
Not sure I've seen many posts dismissing Whyte? He's undefeated, as experienced as Joshua, has fought roughly the same quality of opponents (the only fighter of any note that either of them has faced was the past it Kevin Thompson that Joshua disposed of), neither of them have proven their stamina over 12 rounds, he's just not looked quite as polished as Joshua.Joshua has never had his chin tested, not sure about Whyte.
I don't think too much can be read into the result of their amateur bout, it was too long ago and they have both progressed a lot since then. To me you can argue it either way, I'd probably give a slight edge to Joshua based on his better amateur record and his more polished skills but if Whyte lands a decent shot a Joshua crumples in a David Price style I couldn't be hugely shocked
I follow boxing to a reasonable interest level, I mean it's usually the first sporting thing I check in the paper and I check the Boxing news website at least once a week and I must confess I hadn't heard of Dyllian Whyte until about a year ago when stories emerged of him calling out Joshua and his defeat of Joshua in the amateurs, that says nothing about his chance or boxing skills but probably does tell you where the industry experts, promotional money and opinion makers are hanging their hopes. He does seem like a decent chap though and a very good, hard hitting fighter, it'll be interesting to see whether he and Joshua can get to world level or regardless of the outcome of their fight next month whether one of them will fall by the wayside to allow the other one to get the chances (you have to say Joshua must be favoured) - there can be only one!
Fittster said:
Not sure I've seen many posts dismissing Whyte? He's undefeated, as experienced as Joshua, has fought roughly the same quality of opponents (the only fighter of any note that either of them has faced was the past it Kevin Thompson that Joshua disposed of), neither of them have proven their stamina over 12 rounds, he's just not looked quite as polished as Joshua.
Joshua has never had his chin tested, not sure about Whyte.
I don't think too much can be read into the result of their amateur bout, it was too long ago and they have both progressed a lot since then. To me you can argue it either way, I'd probably give a slight edge to Joshua based on his better amateur record and his more polished skills but if Whyte lands a decent shot a Joshua crumples in a David Price style I couldn't be hugely shocked
not wishing to be smart but any heavy weight who gets in a ring will have had his chin tested these guys now are huge 17 and 18 stone of power. Joshua does look very good and at his stage in a professional career I doubt he will be given too many difficult bouts. Its a very different sport to that of the "greats".Joshua has never had his chin tested, not sure about Whyte.
I don't think too much can be read into the result of their amateur bout, it was too long ago and they have both progressed a lot since then. To me you can argue it either way, I'd probably give a slight edge to Joshua based on his better amateur record and his more polished skills but if Whyte lands a decent shot a Joshua crumples in a David Price style I couldn't be hugely shocked
Its not a criticism of Tyson Fury but can you ever remember a unified champion of 10 years going out with such a whimper.
johnxjsc1985 said:
Fittster said:
Not sure I've seen many posts dismissing Whyte? He's undefeated, as experienced as Joshua, has fought roughly the same quality of opponents (the only fighter of any note that either of them has faced was the past it Kevin Thompson that Joshua disposed of), neither of them have proven their stamina over 12 rounds, he's just not looked quite as polished as Joshua.
Joshua has never had his chin tested, not sure about Whyte.
I don't think too much can be read into the result of their amateur bout, it was too long ago and they have both progressed a lot since then. To me you can argue it either way, I'd probably give a slight edge to Joshua based on his better amateur record and his more polished skills but if Whyte lands a decent shot a Joshua crumples in a David Price style I couldn't be hugely shocked
not wishing to be smart but any heavy weight who gets in a ring will have had his chin tested these guys now are huge 17 and 18 stone of power. Joshua does look very good and at his stage in a professional career I doubt he will be given too many difficult bouts. Its a very different sport to that of the "greats".Joshua has never had his chin tested, not sure about Whyte.
I don't think too much can be read into the result of their amateur bout, it was too long ago and they have both progressed a lot since then. To me you can argue it either way, I'd probably give a slight edge to Joshua based on his better amateur record and his more polished skills but if Whyte lands a decent shot a Joshua crumples in a David Price style I couldn't be hugely shocked
Fittster said:
Who has landed a decent blow on Joshua's chin? He's been so explosive he's knocked out all of his opponents before they have been able to connect a reasonable punch. Look at David Price's career, until his 16th fight he was knocking out opponents with the same prowess as Joshua, then comes Tony Thomson and it's pretty much career over. How can anyone be sure the same won't apply to Joshua?
nobody can be sure but a good punch in the right spot from an 18 stone powerful man means a good nights sleep for the recipient.this is why heavyweights with potential are so careful in their opponents. I David Price is not in the same league as Joshua imho.
Live presser:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/34413690
Tyson: I stripped away the mystique of the steel hammer. When it comes down to it he's not superhuman we're all just bare bums in the shower.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/34413690
Tyson: I stripped away the mystique of the steel hammer. When it comes down to it he's not superhuman we're all just bare bums in the shower.
tuscaneer said:
absolutely gutted at that result at the weekend. not because i particularly dislike fury but rather a fighter of wlad's stature shouldn't be losing to a guy like that. i had put the jennings performance down to a bad day at the office but i have to accept now that maybe it's time to go for "my" heavyweight champ. as much as i loved lennox, wladimir was always my guy. through the losses, the rebuilding and ultimate dominance i have watched in admiration as an unashamed fanboy.
i've become so accustomed to him winning i was in total shock on saturday night. the stats just don't make any sense. 18 right hands thrown the entire fight! he threw that many at pulev in the first round for f
ks sake.
you take the wlad from the haye fight and stick him in there last saturday and fury is out.
i know it happens, it still breaks my heart watching rocky marciano crying after knocking out joe louis.....but at least marciano was another great......fury may prove me wrong but i've got a horrible feeling that we're gonna get the belts passed around like a cheap we for a few years now until the cream rises to the top. and even then how long will we wait for the true next great???
here's what i would like to see happen now. klitschko regroups , sorts the problems he had ( i suppose we will never find out but something was definately wrong in there on saturday) and takes the immediate rematch.
here's hoping he winds the clock back and pulls out one last great performance to get all the marbles back then retires on top.
apart from lennox and marciano all the other greats haven't had such a dignified end to their careers. here's hoping.
edited to add........
the blueprint for wladimir in the second fight must be what he did in the 12th round. how glen mccrory scored that round to fury is beyond me because wlad was all over tyson.
a bit more of that much earlier in the rematch please.
There hasn't been a true champion since Lennox lewis. Tyson fury and family, great boxing ambassador i've become so accustomed to him winning i was in total shock on saturday night. the stats just don't make any sense. 18 right hands thrown the entire fight! he threw that many at pulev in the first round for f
ks sake.you take the wlad from the haye fight and stick him in there last saturday and fury is out.
i know it happens, it still breaks my heart watching rocky marciano crying after knocking out joe louis.....but at least marciano was another great......fury may prove me wrong but i've got a horrible feeling that we're gonna get the belts passed around like a cheap w
e for a few years now until the cream rises to the top. and even then how long will we wait for the true next great???here's what i would like to see happen now. klitschko regroups , sorts the problems he had ( i suppose we will never find out but something was definately wrong in there on saturday) and takes the immediate rematch.
here's hoping he winds the clock back and pulls out one last great performance to get all the marbles back then retires on top.
apart from lennox and marciano all the other greats haven't had such a dignified end to their careers. here's hoping.
edited to add........
the blueprint for wladimir in the second fight must be what he did in the 12th round. how glen mccrory scored that round to fury is beyond me because wlad was all over tyson.
a bit more of that much earlier in the rematch please.
Edited by tuscaneer on Monday 30th November 08:33
Edited by tuscaneer on Monday 30th November 08:33
I thought the jesting fight was one of those days, we've all had them. You arrive at the gym and things don't feel right, every shot just feels wrong, you're slow, tired and weak for no reason. Seems that something changed in the klitshcko camp training wise and he's not been in top shape or age is starting to win.
Given his last 2 performances I'd like to see what change trainer, maybe a move to the states to join bhop as he's managed to work miracles despite walking to the ring with a zimmer
Given his last 2 performances I'd like to see what change trainer, maybe a move to the states to join bhop as he's managed to work miracles despite walking to the ring with a zimmer
hornetrider said:
Live presser:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/34413690
Tyson: I stripped away the mystique of the steel hammer. When it comes down to it he's not superhuman we're all just bare bums in the shower.
Well if Tyson gets SPOTY I'll watch (I haven't seen it for years it's proper dull and Sue Barker in a dinner gown doesn't stir me like it use too, don't know if it's her or me) but the sight of all the BBC exec knobs holding their collective breath as Fury is passed a mic on live TV might be worth it...http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/34413690
Tyson: I stripped away the mystique of the steel hammer. When it comes down to it he's not superhuman we're all just bare bums in the shower.
Gerradi said:
In the commentary just before the fight it was said that Vlads wife had been admitted to a clinic for Post natal depression. If anyone has had a partner who has suffered this rotten illness will know that it takes all the life out of ALL the family...If he has been trying to cope with this that may explain why he was under par , because he clearly was. I wanted Fury to win & I was impressed at his performance buy equally puzzled by Klitchko's lack of his.
the wife was on about this yesterday...i'm not one for heat magazine/jeremy kyle etc. but apparently it's been well documented in "celebrity" press that she has spent the last couple of months being treated in clinics/hospital for post natal. pretty bad by all accounts.i remember the missus commenting at the time we watched "carl meets wladimir" that he looked really tired and pre occupied....which went over my head at the time but as it was still in the sky planner i watched it back and i must say in that interview he very much looked the 40 year old man.
the bit about the fight i can't get my head round (having watched it a few times now) isn't the banner headline of " wlad never threw any punches" but rather the lack of foot pressure.
klitschko's thing was always about carefully moving you into position without you realizing he was doing it then "boom" your lights were out after being softened up for half a dozen rounds.
he did not do it in this fight. all this talk about fury being too quick and nimble for him to cope with is b
ks. he's fought super quick guys before and completely shut them down (haye for example) ....he's fought guys with really long reaches before in bryant jennings, mariusz wach, tony thompson etc who all had a longer reach than he did....and completely shut them down.bottom line is that fury has been flattered by the worst i've ever seen version of wlad.
here's hoping his wife recovers well, wlad regroups and gets his mojo back then obliterates this guy in the rematch because there is no way he had any business losing to such a lowly challenger.
at least liston lost to a great in clay, dempsey lost to a great in tunny, joe louis lost to a great in ezzard charles .......
if wlad can't go out on his own terms i at least want him to go out against the next superstar. and that isn't fury.
FredClogs said:
They all laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the world was round... etc... etc...
I know I'm prone to displays of contrarianism as any bored internet keyboard warrior should be but I did tell you so, and did put my money on Fury (but had him to win by KO) I'm not a massive fan of Fury as a person but it's plain that the combination of his size, speed and agility and overwhelming self belief will mean that a fighter like Vlad who is about precision and control and finding and exploiting his proponents rhythm and timing will never beat a guy like Fury, he's just too random, like a giant Naz. My worry was that Fury didn't really believe in himself and all the chat was bluster but when he started putting his hands behind his back in the 2nd or 3rd round it was clear to me that he had the better of Vlad and I don't see that changing - I doubt there will be a rematch, Vlad will not want anymore of this and I don't believe his public want to see it again either, you can't prepare for Fury other than just getting wound up into a beserk rage and trying to rip his head off, who can you get to spar with that can even copy what Fury did on Saturday night? I do think that Fury could well be beaten early rounds by a big aggressive all in puncher like Wilder or Joshua, so game on - the next few years could be very interesting for British heavyweights.
i'd counter that with my post above fella...I know I'm prone to displays of contrarianism as any bored internet keyboard warrior should be but I did tell you so, and did put my money on Fury (but had him to win by KO) I'm not a massive fan of Fury as a person but it's plain that the combination of his size, speed and agility and overwhelming self belief will mean that a fighter like Vlad who is about precision and control and finding and exploiting his proponents rhythm and timing will never beat a guy like Fury, he's just too random, like a giant Naz. My worry was that Fury didn't really believe in himself and all the chat was bluster but when he started putting his hands behind his back in the 2nd or 3rd round it was clear to me that he had the better of Vlad and I don't see that changing - I doubt there will be a rematch, Vlad will not want anymore of this and I don't believe his public want to see it again either, you can't prepare for Fury other than just getting wound up into a beserk rage and trying to rip his head off, who can you get to spar with that can even copy what Fury did on Saturday night? I do think that Fury could well be beaten early rounds by a big aggressive all in puncher like Wilder or Joshua, so game on - the next few years could be very interesting for British heavyweights.
Burwood said:
tuscaneer said:
absolutely gutted at that result at the weekend. not because i particularly dislike fury but rather a fighter of wlad's stature shouldn't be losing to a guy like that. i had put the jennings performance down to a bad day at the office but i have to accept now that maybe it's time to go for "my" heavyweight champ. as much as i loved lennox, wladimir was always my guy. through the losses, the rebuilding and ultimate dominance i have watched in admiration as an unashamed fanboy.
i've become so accustomed to him winning i was in total shock on saturday night. the stats just don't make any sense. 18 right hands thrown the entire fight! he threw that many at pulev in the first round for fks sake.
you take the wlad from the haye fight and stick him in there last saturday and fury is out.
i know it happens, it still breaks my heart watching rocky marciano crying after knocking out joe louis.....but at least marciano was another great......fury may prove me wrong but i've got a horrible feeling that we're gonna get the belts passed around like a cheap we for a few years now until the cream rises to the top. and even then how long will we wait for the true next great???
here's what i would like to see happen now. klitschko regroups , sorts the problems he had ( i suppose we will never find out but something was definately wrong in there on saturday) and takes the immediate rematch.
here's hoping he winds the clock back and pulls out one last great performance to get all the marbles back then retires on top.
apart from lennox and marciano all the other greats haven't had such a dignified end to their careers. here's hoping.
edited to add........
the blueprint for wladimir in the second fight must be what he did in the 12th round. how glen mccrory scored that round to fury is beyond me because wlad was all over tyson.
a bit more of that much earlier in the rematch please.
There hasn't been a true champion since Lennox lewis. Tyson fury and family, great boxing ambassador i've become so accustomed to him winning i was in total shock on saturday night. the stats just don't make any sense. 18 right hands thrown the entire fight! he threw that many at pulev in the first round for f
ks sake.you take the wlad from the haye fight and stick him in there last saturday and fury is out.
i know it happens, it still breaks my heart watching rocky marciano crying after knocking out joe louis.....but at least marciano was another great......fury may prove me wrong but i've got a horrible feeling that we're gonna get the belts passed around like a cheap w
e for a few years now until the cream rises to the top. and even then how long will we wait for the true next great???here's what i would like to see happen now. klitschko regroups , sorts the problems he had ( i suppose we will never find out but something was definately wrong in there on saturday) and takes the immediate rematch.
here's hoping he winds the clock back and pulls out one last great performance to get all the marbles back then retires on top.
apart from lennox and marciano all the other greats haven't had such a dignified end to their careers. here's hoping.
edited to add........
the blueprint for wladimir in the second fight must be what he did in the 12th round. how glen mccrory scored that round to fury is beyond me because wlad was all over tyson.
a bit more of that much earlier in the rematch please.
Edited by tuscaneer on Monday 30th November 08:33
Edited by tuscaneer on Monday 30th November 08:33
FredClogs said:
hornetrider said:
Live presser:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/34413690
Tyson: I stripped away the mystique of the steel hammer. When it comes down to it he's not superhuman we're all just bare bums in the shower.
Well if Tyson gets SPOTY I'll watch (I haven't seen it for years it's proper dull and Sue Barker in a dinner gown doesn't stir me like it use too, don't know if it's her or me) but the sight of all the BBC exec knobs holding their collective breath as Fury is passed a mic on live TV might be worth it...http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/34413690
Tyson: I stripped away the mystique of the steel hammer. When it comes down to it he's not superhuman we're all just bare bums in the shower.
Burwood said:
FredClogs said:
hornetrider said:
Live presser:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/34413690
Tyson: I stripped away the mystique of the steel hammer. When it comes down to it he's not superhuman we're all just bare bums in the shower.
Well if Tyson gets SPOTY I'll watch (I haven't seen it for years it's proper dull and Sue Barker in a dinner gown doesn't stir me like it use too, don't know if it's her or me) but the sight of all the BBC exec knobs holding their collective breath as Fury is passed a mic on live TV might be worth it...http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/34413690
Tyson: I stripped away the mystique of the steel hammer. When it comes down to it he's not superhuman we're all just bare bums in the shower.
Tusc, I know you're a Wlad fan, but I really do think there's an element of rose tinted glasses I've not yet seen from you before.
Haye may be faster than Fury and Jennings have the reach, but Fury did have both of those attributes and looked incredibly awkward to hit.
What I distinctly remember hearing Fury say in his corner was "he's not as strong as I thought" after a bit of the usual leaning had taken place and perhaps Wlad was surprised too, given there's little between them weight wise and you'd obviously think Wladimir to be far stronger.
I think Fury deserves a bit more credit at not allowing Wlad to settle his feet and unload. That's after my second viewing last night. Fury didn't need to do a lot and did what was required.
What will be interesting about a rematch is that Fury said "it's like winning the lottery and buying another lottery ticket" I think that says a lot about his mentality and I doubt whether Fury will be able to motivate himself like that again. It will be a short reign sadly. I hope i'm wrong though.
Haye may be faster than Fury and Jennings have the reach, but Fury did have both of those attributes and looked incredibly awkward to hit.
What I distinctly remember hearing Fury say in his corner was "he's not as strong as I thought" after a bit of the usual leaning had taken place and perhaps Wlad was surprised too, given there's little between them weight wise and you'd obviously think Wladimir to be far stronger.
I think Fury deserves a bit more credit at not allowing Wlad to settle his feet and unload. That's after my second viewing last night. Fury didn't need to do a lot and did what was required.
What will be interesting about a rematch is that Fury said "it's like winning the lottery and buying another lottery ticket" I think that says a lot about his mentality and I doubt whether Fury will be able to motivate himself like that again. It will be a short reign sadly. I hope i'm wrong though.
There's no doubt the Vlad's footwork is sublime and for a man of his size his movement in and out in straight lines is almost like he's hovering over the canvas and he was doing it against Fury but the problem is he was placing his front foot, letting the jab go and immediately realising he was still out of range, either because Fury had moved, lent back or lent forward or even beaten him to the jab. I think the only way to deal with a bigger, longer and quicker guy is to go all Joe Fraser on his arse, cross guard cover up get underneath and launch over hand rights... Which Vlad was hinting at in round 12, or at least throwing caution to the wind and just letting the punches fly rather than trying surgical one twos and trying to get Fury with "perfect boxing". It's what Chisora does and Fury still picked him apart too mind you... (not that Chisora is in the league of Joe Frasier). Wilder's very capable of knocking Fury out I think but I don't think Vlad is of an age or mentality where he's going to try new things.
dirty boy said:
Tusc, I know you're a Wlad fan, but I really do think there's an element of rose tinted glasses I've not yet seen from you before.
Haye may be faster than Fury and Jennings have the reach, but Fury did have both of those attributes and looked incredibly awkward to hit.
What I distinctly remember hearing Fury say in his corner was "he's not as strong as I thought" after a bit of the usual leaning had taken place and perhaps Wlad was surprised too, given there's little between them weight wise and you'd obviously think Wladimir to be far stronger.
I think Fury deserves a bit more credit at not allowing Wlad to settle his feet and unload. That's after my second viewing last night. Fury didn't need to do a lot and did what was required.
What will be interesting about a rematch is that Fury said "it's like winning the lottery and buying another lottery ticket" I think that says a lot about his mentality and I doubt whether Fury will be able to motivate himself like that again. It will be a short reign sadly. I hope i'm wrong though.
absolutely i'm an unashamed fanboy mate as i said before. but the reason for my admiration for the man is how he was this unstoppable aggressive force as a young fighter who's weaknesses were exposed and he was subsequently written off.even his brother told him to retire back in 2004. i love the fact that he recognized his conditioning and whiskers let him down so he started again. the hunger , dedication and hard work required to do that, to climb all the way to the very top and stay there for a decade......Haye may be faster than Fury and Jennings have the reach, but Fury did have both of those attributes and looked incredibly awkward to hit.
What I distinctly remember hearing Fury say in his corner was "he's not as strong as I thought" after a bit of the usual leaning had taken place and perhaps Wlad was surprised too, given there's little between them weight wise and you'd obviously think Wladimir to be far stronger.
I think Fury deserves a bit more credit at not allowing Wlad to settle his feet and unload. That's after my second viewing last night. Fury didn't need to do a lot and did what was required.
What will be interesting about a rematch is that Fury said "it's like winning the lottery and buying another lottery ticket" I think that says a lot about his mentality and I doubt whether Fury will be able to motivate himself like that again. It will be a short reign sadly. I hope i'm wrong though.
the man has been a phenominal champion and if you watch some of his fights over the last couple of years even you can see that he wasn't there on saturday night. to throw 18 right hands in an entire fight is more than a poor effort, it's indicitave of something wrong.watch how he has dealt with speed in the past, his mastery of foot placement and foot pressure is phenominal......was fury better than david haye???? or was wlad just not there like he was against haye??
i'm finding it hard to credit fury's win with some new found wizardry when in reality he's shown me nothing amateur or pro (other than freakish size and a fair amount of speed for that size) that makes me think he's a wonderous heavyweight. he whipped himself into the best shape of his life in something like a 5 month camp creating the best ever version of himself to fight the worst wlad i've ever seen.......and won by 2 rounds on my scorecard.
he's delusional if he thinks he's THAT good and the wlad he fought last week was 100%.....
i'm sure that klitschko will do what he did over a decade ago and get the bit between his teeth to silence all the doubters that have resurfaced once again.
incidentally, i agree that fury's comments about his future and the possibility of maybe never even fighting again speak volumes. even if wlad elected to walk away without using his rematch clause ( which i highly doubt)...i'm pretty sure that the belts will get passed around a few guys over the next few years if wlad doesn't come back.
one thing's for sure .....we won't see another champion so dominant for a very long time
Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff