World Athletic Championships.
Discussion
mcelliott said:
That's a fantastic article exposing the hypocritical Team on the BBC, even Darren Campbell who I truly believe was a clean athlete has never rounded on Linford but never hides his disgust for Gatlin & Co. Cram was again delighted for the Jamaican 4x100m win but never mentioned a certain Asafa Powell in the Team. ash73 said:
Gatlin is considering a boycott of the British media? Oh no, that's terrible. Bye then 
I agree they should be consistent with British cheats though. I was celebrating Felix's victory over Ohuruogu just as much.
Got to agree with you there Oliver Holts dismantling of Ohuruogu's missed tests a few years ago was fantastic journalism.I agree they should be consistent with British cheats though. I was celebrating Felix's victory over Ohuruogu just as much.
Alison Felix has been a thoroughbred for years she's poetry in motion.
272BHP said:
Athletics is much cleaner now than it was in the past. Cleaner in that they cannot take the mega doses Flo-Jo took without falling foul of the detectors. Without doubt her times should be struck from the record book.
These days its all about maximising hormonal profile - some of them don't even believe it is cheating. The doctors/coaches convince them that their hormone levels are less than optimal and that they are disadvantaged with regards to the competition.
There is a 3 monkeys approach to athletics these days but now that the genie is out of the bottle there is no way of putting the bugger back in. People bend the rules in every sport don't they though? I am struggling to think of a professional sport that is not beset by cheaters in some form or another. Anyone know any?
Why do you say Fol jo's times should be struck from the record book? These days its all about maximising hormonal profile - some of them don't even believe it is cheating. The doctors/coaches convince them that their hormone levels are less than optimal and that they are disadvantaged with regards to the competition.
There is a 3 monkeys approach to athletics these days but now that the genie is out of the bottle there is no way of putting the bugger back in. People bend the rules in every sport don't they though? I am struggling to think of a professional sport that is not beset by cheaters in some form or another. Anyone know any?
Thankyou4calling said:
Why do you say Fol jo's times should be struck from the record book?
That whole episode is disturbing - she (and her coach, same coach as Allyson Felix by the way) lost all perspective and turned her into something grotesque - loaded to the gills with a cocktail of growth hormone and male hormones. Yes, she turned into a sprinting machine, but at what cost?272BHP said:
That whole episode is disturbing - she (and her coach, same coach as Allyson Felix by the way) lost all perspective and turned her into something grotesque - loaded to the gills with a cocktail of growth hormone and male hormones. Yes, she turned into a sprinting machine, but at what cost?
Pardon? As far as I'm aware she never failed a drugs tested and because of her achievements was tested rigorously. As for turning herb to one thing grotesque I look and see a stunning woman athlete.She was one of the best sprinters in the world, trained like crazy to become the best ever.
Throwing in anecdotes and guilt by association is what I find disturbing.
Thankyou4calling said:
272BHP said:
That whole episode is disturbing - she (and her coach, same coach as Allyson Felix by the way) lost all perspective and turned her into something grotesque - loaded to the gills with a cocktail of growth hormone and male hormones. Yes, she turned into a sprinting machine, but at what cost?
Pardon? As far as I'm aware she never failed a drugs tested and because of her achievements was tested rigorously. As for turning herb to one thing grotesque I look and see a stunning woman athlete.She was one of the best sprinters in the world, trained like crazy to become the best ever.
Throwing in anecdotes and guilt by association is what I find disturbing.
I can't believe someone in the entire world believes in FLo Jo I'm calling troll!!
lerate said:
I can't believe someone in the entire world believes in FLo Jo I'm calling troll!!
Me too. The trouble is that if you chuck out her records you then have to look at the Eastern European/Russian 400m and 800m records, then move over to some of the men's ones. Where would you stop? But on the other hand, today's women have to train hard for these events knowing that they cant get anywhere near the world's best times. A difficult one.
And the fans miss the excitement of seeing records broken. Seeing Dibaba break the 1500m record a couple of weeks ago was like going back to the "old days".lerate said:
I'm not sure if you are being serious but hey ho. You can't seriously trot out the "never failed a drug test line" - Marion Jones, Lance Armstrong, Dwain Chambers etc etc it's widely acknowledged as an intelligence test not a drug test. The Panorama journalist showed how easily it is to pass. A fellow American athlete admitted selling her HGH did she sue him - not a hope.
I can't believe someone in the entire world believes in FLo Jo I'm calling troll!!
I'm being totally serious, are you? I can't believe someone in the entire world believes in FLo Jo I'm calling troll!!
If I can get this clear, you are now using any arbitrary comment or observation you choose to support your theory that Flo Jo ( I was talking specifically about her) used banned drugs to achieve her times whilst calling me a troll, whatever that is for accepting the facts that she always tested clean.
Fair enough lets just make up the rules as we go along, no need to liase with doping agencies and suchlike, you just decide on the basis that somebody said they sold her drugs, that seems a pretty good and reliable test. NOT!
Edited by Thankyou4calling on Monday 31st August 17:49
Whilst I'm fairly cynical on Flo Jo being clean, I must admit to being much more inclined to regard CO as clean on the fairly simplistic grounds that she isn't fast enough. She wins the big ones on her presence/reputation of being a finishing straight beast. Felix finally applied a mental toughness against her that other hadn't and then turned on the speed - and blew her away. Burned her.
If CO is on the juice then it's a very English Yeoman application!
If CO is on the juice then it's a very English Yeoman application!
Thankyou4calling said:
272BHP said:
That whole episode is disturbing - she (and her coach, same coach as Allyson Felix by the way) lost all perspective and turned her into something grotesque - loaded to the gills with a cocktail of growth hormone and male hormones. Yes, she turned into a sprinting machine, but at what cost?
Pardon? As far as I'm aware she never failed a drugs tested and because of her achievements was tested rigorously. As for turning herb to one thing grotesque I look and see a stunning woman athlete.She was one of the best sprinters in the world, trained like crazy to become the best ever.
Throwing in anecdotes and guilt by association is what I find disturbing.
Randy Winkman said:
Greg66 said:
Flo Jo's 10.49 WR owes more to a notoriously fast track and illegal but misread wind assistance. Her next fastest time is only 0.03 faster than Jeter.
What about her 200m times? 20.34 versus Marion Jones 
next at 20.62. Though Flo-Jo did have wind again. 
Flo Jo, in the grand scheme of things hadn't done a whole lot up to 87, then suddenly body shape changes drastically, voice changes pitch and then in 88 blitzes everyone and everything. Then retires from the sport in 89 when they announce mandatory testing. Drops dead at 38.
Sounds legit.
DJRC said:
Whilst I'm fairly cynical on Flo Jo being clean, I must admit to being much more inclined to regard CO as clean on the fairly simplistic grounds that she isn't fast enough. She wins the big ones on her presence/reputation of being a finishing straight beast. Felix finally applied a mental toughness against her that other hadn't and then turned on the speed - and blew her away. Burned her.
If CO is on the juice then it's a very English Yeoman application!
CO has served a ban for drugs offences you do realise that? 3 missed tests that an award winning journalist proved she could of got to easily. No one said she's on the juice now, but the BBC never mention it If CO is on the juice then it's a very English Yeoman application!
London424 said:
Ah, but Jones never tested positive either!
Flo Jo, in the grand scheme of things hadn't done a whole lot up to 87, then suddenly body shape changes drastically, voice changes pitch and then in 88 blitzes everyone and everything. Then retires from the sport in 89 when they announce mandatory testing. Drops dead at 38.
Sounds legit.
Don't forget the fast track!,??Flo Jo, in the grand scheme of things hadn't done a whole lot up to 87, then suddenly body shape changes drastically, voice changes pitch and then in 88 blitzes everyone and everything. Then retires from the sport in 89 when they announce mandatory testing. Drops dead at 38.
Sounds legit.
Comparing Flo Jo's time to Jeter as a way of proving she's clean!!! Total Madness
Thankyou4calling said:
I'm being totally serious, are you?
If I can get this clear, you are now using any arbitrary comment or observation you choose to support your theory that Flo Jo ( I was talking specifically about her) used banned drugs to achieve her times whilst calling me a troll, whatever that is for accepting the facts that she always tested clean.
Fair enough lets just make up the rules as we go along, no need to liase with doping agencies and suchlike, you just decide on the basis that somebody said they sold her drugs, that seems a pretty good and reliable test. NOT!
Steady on old chap, you'll be getting people saying your a stereotypical "powerfully built company director" type. If I can get this clear, you are now using any arbitrary comment or observation you choose to support your theory that Flo Jo ( I was talking specifically about her) used banned drugs to achieve her times whilst calling me a troll, whatever that is for accepting the facts that she always tested clean.
Fair enough lets just make up the rules as we go along, no need to liase with doping agencies and suchlike, you just decide on the basis that somebody said they sold her drugs, that seems a pretty good and reliable test. NOT!
Edited by Thankyou4calling on Monday 31st August 17:49
You didn't address the point by the way, you think a clean test proves they're clean do you? Oh dear
London424 said:
Flo Jo, in the grand scheme of things hadn't done a whole lot up to 87, then suddenly body shape changes drastically, voice changes pitch and then in 88 blitzes everyone and everything. Then retires from the sport in 89 when they announce mandatory testing.
What do you mean "hadn't done alot"? She was very well respected for her amazing ......... er, fingernails". 
you're forgetting her lunchbox - it was as impressive as Linfords lerate said:
Steady on old chap, you'll be getting people saying your a stereotypical "powerfully built company director" type.
You didn't address the point by the way, you think a clean test proves they're clean do you? Oh dear
Ha ha! No goatee but all the rest applies:-) You didn't address the point by the way, you think a clean test proves they're clean do you? Oh dear
Do I think a clean test proves they are clean?
My answer to that is an assured NO! It means they passed a test, nothing more or less.
However, I do think we can only use the official test results, even if they may be flawed because using other methods is so random it just gets silly.
With Flo Jo, my take is that she passed all tests and she was focussed on more than most. She was a phenomenal sprinter for a good while before the world records. They were set on a fast track with a wind. She worked her ass off, and it was a hell of an ass:-)
In most sports you do get freaks every so often. A Bolt, a Tyson, A Jonah Lomu, Ronaldo, Woods, Flo Jo. Seb Coe. To say it's drugs really tarnishes these (type of ) people. What should they do? Not perform as well to fit in with the norm?
Yes Flo Jo died at an early age but that isn't unusual at all, far from it and it had nothing to do with drugs. People will throw things around but I'd prefer to stick to the facts.
Finally, I've commented on plenty of other threads that I think athletes should be allowed by the IAAF to take ANYTHING.
And on a personal level as manager, operator and owner of a moderately sized Health Club Group I'm pretty well clued up on the use of Anabolics and similar believe you me
Thankyou4calling said:
lerate said:
Steady on old chap, you'll be getting people saying your a stereotypical "powerfully built company director" type.
You didn't address the point by the way, you think a clean test proves they're clean do you? Oh dear
Ha ha! No goatee but all the rest applies:-) You didn't address the point by the way, you think a clean test proves they're clean do you? Oh dear
Do I think a clean test proves they are clean?
My answer to that is an assured NO! It means they passed a test, nothing more or less.
However, I do think we can only use the official test results, even if they may be flawed because using other methods is so random it just gets silly.
With Flo Jo, my take is that she passed all tests and she was focussed on more than most. She was a phenomenal sprinter for a good while before the world records. They were set on a fast track with a wind. She worked her ass off, and it was a hell of an ass:-)
In most sports you do get freaks every so often. A Bolt, a Tyson, A Jonah Lomu, Ronaldo, Woods, Flo Jo. Seb Coe. To say it's drugs really tarnishes these (type of ) people. What should they do? Not perform as well to fit in with the norm?
Yes Flo Jo died at an early age but that isn't unusual at all, far from it and it had nothing to do with drugs. People will throw things around but I'd prefer to stick to the facts.
Finally, I've commented on plenty of other threads that I think athletes should be allowed by the IAAF to take ANYTHING.
And on a personal level as manager, operator and owner of a moderately sized Health Club Group I'm pretty well clued up on the use of Anabolics and similar believe you me
Randy Winkman said:
In the thread about allowing drugs you seem to think that taking them is already commonplace in a number of sports ..... but you wont acknowledge that Flo-Jo took them?
In the drugs threads what I've said, in a nutshell, is that ALL sports people take drugs. And they do. I'm including alcohol, nicotine, aspirin, nurofen, night nurse, lucozade etc as drugs, they are and all take them. The IAAF have decided their athletes can't fail a test for certain drugs that they think give an unfair advantage but they allow loads of others that give an unfair advantage. That's a fact.Anabolics as an example make a minute difference. The top people will be the top people with or without. That's a fact.
Drugs, any drugs, won't make an also ran a champ, they just don't although also rans often cite so called non drug use as an excuse for why they can't win.
I'm putting forward an argument for saying that I don't think Flo Jo used Anabolics. She would've used drugs for sure, all do as I said but she, along with others was a freak. A genetic freak who worked hard and chose a sport she was suited to. It happens, not often but it does.
More often a genetic freak doesn't work hard (they don't have the desire as they're good anyway) or chooses the wrong sport or vocation.
The single biggest factor for success in any sport is genetics. Nature. What God given talent you are born with via your parentage. No drug, training regime, diet, or motivation will ever overcome your our genetics. You cannot make a racehorse out of a carthorse.
Edited by Thankyou4calling on Monday 31st August 21:28
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