England Rugby - what is needed for a successful future....
Discussion
Kermit power said:
So, with Burgess slinking back off to Sydney with his tail between his legs, do we think that's going to make it harder for Lancaster and co to keep their jobs, or easier, with their embarrassing scapegoat out of the picture?
Easier? Shifts blame away from Lancaster and the coaches to whoever made the decisions/contractual commitments (if there were any). I'm guessing that wouldn't be Lancaster, but higher up in the RFU.Harder. Lancaster was front and centre in this fiasco from the beginning. He (and Farrell, no doubt) encouraged Burgess to think that he had a shot at being in the World Cup squad within a year, he contradicted his own rules about only selecting players on the basis of established performance levels, he introduced a disruptive element into the squad at the expense of proven international players, he screwed Bath (and Burgess) around by playing a 6 at 12, he created a selection dilemma that altered the way the entire backline would have to operate in the crucial Wales game, and he then failed to stick to his guns in the Australia game by dropping Burgess. And crucially, by doing all of this he made Burgess a target, and increased the pressure on the bloke.
Shocking effort.
Shocking effort.
0000 said:
I'm more keen on Farrell leaving than Lancaster.
I think Farrell had far too much influence in coaching and selection over Lancaster but the sooner they're both gone the better. In fact the sooner the RFU is rebuilt the better. I can't see myself following the national side much longer unless there are wholesale changes throughout the system. I did hear a good story about the Burgess selection stuff.
Apparently when Eastmond was initially dropped he asked Lancaster who the 4 were going to be. He was told Burgess would be in.
He just shook his hand and said good luck with that, he's not even the 4th best Centre at Bath (who I think were all English) let alone in the top 4 of all Englishmen.
Apparently when Eastmond was initially dropped he asked Lancaster who the 4 were going to be. He was told Burgess would be in.
He just shook his hand and said good luck with that, he's not even the 4th best Centre at Bath (who I think were all English) let alone in the top 4 of all Englishmen.
Smollet said:
I think Farrell had far too much influence in coaching and selection over Lancaster but the sooner they're both gone the better. In fact the sooner the RFU is rebuilt the better. I can't see myself following the national side much longer unless there are wholesale changes throughout the system.
AgreedJoey Ramone said:
Harder. Lancaster was front and centre in this fiasco from the beginning. He (and Farrell, no doubt) encouraged Burgess to think that he had a shot at being in the World Cup squad within a year, he contradicted his own rules about only selecting players on the basis of established performance levels, he introduced a disruptive element into the squad at the expense of proven international players, he screwed Bath (and Burgess) around by playing a 6 at 12, he created a selection dilemma that altered the way the entire backline would have to operate in the crucial Wales game, and he then failed to stick to his guns in the Australia game by dropping Burgess. And crucially, by doing all of this he made Burgess a target, and increased the pressure on the bloke.
Shocking effort.
Agree with this. Have it on good authority that Burgess was going back at the end of the RWC anyhow, for various reasons including family. He was always going back, this was a pure drafting for the RWC.Shocking effort.
With that 'review' comitee the sad thing is nothing is going to change as many have already said the problem is the teirs above the coaching team in the RFU.
However Lancaster and the rest need to fall on thier swords for being the first England team not to get out of the group and first home nation to progress to the quarters.
It's a shame how Burgess was handled, it seemed doomed from the start looking back. Set back initially through injury then club/country conflict. Shame he didn't stick around.
However Lancaster and the rest need to fall on thier swords for being the first England team not to get out of the group and first home nation to progress to the quarters.
It's a shame how Burgess was handled, it seemed doomed from the start looking back. Set back initially through injury then club/country conflict. Shame he didn't stick around.
"amusingly" enough can anyone name another RL great who played flanker for his club and centre for England? That's right Faz!
Fat Armitage has been whinging about the "disrupting the squad" comments and reasons for him not being selected... I'd say that the Burgess debacle pretty much confirms that theory - though to be fair fat boy can feel aggrieved that SB got the preferential treatment that none were meant to have. Beyond that though could he please f
k off. He chose to chase £££ (well in actuality €€€, for which I can't blame him) and then extended his contract knowing the rules - no sympathy.
Fat Armitage has been whinging about the "disrupting the squad" comments and reasons for him not being selected... I'd say that the Burgess debacle pretty much confirms that theory - though to be fair fat boy can feel aggrieved that SB got the preferential treatment that none were meant to have. Beyond that though could he please f
k off. He chose to chase £££ (well in actuality €€€, for which I can't blame him) and then extended his contract knowing the rules - no sympathy. Kermit power said:
What do we make of Robshaw playing at six for Quins last night?
Tacit acceptance that his England career is over, at least for now, so O'Shea no longer feels the need to play him where Lancaster wants him?
I thought he tended to play 6 anyhow with Wallace at 7 usually?Tacit acceptance that his England career is over, at least for now, so O'Shea no longer feels the need to play him where Lancaster wants him?
I feel a bit sorry for Robshaw he came in for a lot of stick and has been a consistent performer.
BUT if you're being brutally honest he was a bit meek as a captain and often buckled under pressure.
Was one of many 6.5's in the England set up, very much a all rounder work rate type player who doesn't really excel at any one facet of the game. I don't think his carrying is good enough to be an international 6, really no point of difference to his game.
a311 said:
I thought he tended to play 6 anyhow with Wallace at 7 usually?
I feel a bit sorry for Robshaw he came in for a lot of stick and has been a consistent performer.
BUT if you're being brutally honest he was a bit meek as a captain and often buckled under pressure.
Was one of many 6.5's in the England set up, very much a all rounder work rate type player who doesn't really excel at any one facet of the game. I don't think his carrying is good enough to be an international 6, really no point of difference to his game.
You may well be right. It feels like years since I last saw him play for Quins, and the commentators were making a big thing about him being in the Six shirt as though it was something new.I feel a bit sorry for Robshaw he came in for a lot of stick and has been a consistent performer.
BUT if you're being brutally honest he was a bit meek as a captain and often buckled under pressure.
Was one of many 6.5's in the England set up, very much a all rounder work rate type player who doesn't really excel at any one facet of the game. I don't think his carrying is good enough to be an international 6, really no point of difference to his game.
Kermit power said:
You may well be right. It feels like years since I last saw him play for Quins, and the commentators were making a big thing about him being in the Six shirt as though it was something new.
I don't get to watch a huge amount of Aviva Premiership games live, similarly Tom Wood looked like a potentially very good #7 not that long ago. Certainly a lasting memory of the Lancaster era assuming he goes will be among other things his penchant for playing players out of position. Wow.
www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international...
Article said:
Mike Brown: I have lost all trust in my England team-mates after Rugby World Cup leaks
Mike Brown says he no longer has any trust in the England squad in the wake of the stories that have emerged from sources within the camp about the ill-fated World Cup campaign.
Brown says he has been frustrated by England players who have made criticisms of Stuart Lancaster’s tenure under the cloak of anonymity and said the subsequent fall-out following their World Cup exit had “completely shot” his trust in the squad.
The Harlequins full-back, in an exclusive interview with Telegraph Sport, insisted that he did not think “anyone was good enough in an England shirt” to make criticisms following the side’s pool stage exit, following defeats by Wales and Australia.
The 30 year-old, who was one of England players who enhanced their reputation during the tournament with stand-out performances, admitted the side’s pool stage exit had been “massively disappointing”.
But he said the subsequent stories that have emerged had been difficult to take, such as revelation in The Sun on Sunday that the team’s kit manager, Dave Tennison, was under investigation by the Rugby Football Union after allegations he had encouraged players before the tournament to invest in shares in an energy company only for the share price to collapse.
“There has been a story at the weekend which is absolutely ridiculous so the trust has gone now as far as I am concerned,” Brown insisted. “I worked so hard to play in a World Cup and I am passionate about playing for England.
“It is just difficult because we have not left it in a good place and it doesn’t help with all these people deciding to pipe up in the squad that probably shouldn’t be, probably anonymously.
“I don’t think anyone was good enough in an England shirt to be piping up saying: ‘This was wrong, that was wrong’ and that sort of thing.
“If they are going to say something, I think they should put their name to it. That is going to make it even more difficult when we (the England squad) do meet up because I think the trust has been, as you can imagine, completely shot now.
“But it will come out who it was at the end of the day so it will be interesting when it does because I will be one of the first people to speak to them."
Brown claimed the squad would now require a clear-the-air meeting when it reassembles in January ahead of the Six Nations Championship if it is to move on from their failed campaign.
“It is going to be hard for me to call anyone team-mates until we meet up,” Brown added. “Yes, it is going to be tough. Everything good is built on trust. Everything good at Harlequins is built on trust.
“There is no trust (with England) now, as far as I am concerned. But it will all get sorted out with whoever is in charge or whoever is there. It will get sorted out, to move the team forwards, it always does in team environments.
“It is disappointing. It will come quick for all of us but we have to focus on our clubs now and doing the best job we can.”
Brown will first turn his focus to his club’s opening fixture in the European Challenge Cup against Montpellier at The Stoop on Thursday, a game to be shown live on Sky Sports. He has also set himself new targets with England, and insists that the squad does not require a major overhaul going into the Six Nations.
“In terms of the group of players we don’t need to rebuild,” Brown added. “If you look at that squad, you keep the majority of that together – obviously there will be people who play well and put their hands up that can force their way in – but you could end up with a squad with the same cap number of the New Zealand team that has just gone.
“There are some quality young players coming through, (Anthony) Watson, (Jack) Nowell, (Henry) Slade, (George) Ford and Faz (Owen Farrell) and there are other players who did not get picked who can push their way in as well.
“So if you keep the majority of those players together and you don’t need to rebuild in that sense but I think in terms of trust, given everything that has happened after the World Cup, that definitely needs rebuilding in my eyes.”
Omnishambles. Mike Brown says he no longer has any trust in the England squad in the wake of the stories that have emerged from sources within the camp about the ill-fated World Cup campaign.
Brown says he has been frustrated by England players who have made criticisms of Stuart Lancaster’s tenure under the cloak of anonymity and said the subsequent fall-out following their World Cup exit had “completely shot” his trust in the squad.
The Harlequins full-back, in an exclusive interview with Telegraph Sport, insisted that he did not think “anyone was good enough in an England shirt” to make criticisms following the side’s pool stage exit, following defeats by Wales and Australia.
The 30 year-old, who was one of England players who enhanced their reputation during the tournament with stand-out performances, admitted the side’s pool stage exit had been “massively disappointing”.
But he said the subsequent stories that have emerged had been difficult to take, such as revelation in The Sun on Sunday that the team’s kit manager, Dave Tennison, was under investigation by the Rugby Football Union after allegations he had encouraged players before the tournament to invest in shares in an energy company only for the share price to collapse.
“There has been a story at the weekend which is absolutely ridiculous so the trust has gone now as far as I am concerned,” Brown insisted. “I worked so hard to play in a World Cup and I am passionate about playing for England.
“It is just difficult because we have not left it in a good place and it doesn’t help with all these people deciding to pipe up in the squad that probably shouldn’t be, probably anonymously.
“I don’t think anyone was good enough in an England shirt to be piping up saying: ‘This was wrong, that was wrong’ and that sort of thing.
“If they are going to say something, I think they should put their name to it. That is going to make it even more difficult when we (the England squad) do meet up because I think the trust has been, as you can imagine, completely shot now.
“But it will come out who it was at the end of the day so it will be interesting when it does because I will be one of the first people to speak to them."
Brown claimed the squad would now require a clear-the-air meeting when it reassembles in January ahead of the Six Nations Championship if it is to move on from their failed campaign.
“It is going to be hard for me to call anyone team-mates until we meet up,” Brown added. “Yes, it is going to be tough. Everything good is built on trust. Everything good at Harlequins is built on trust.
“There is no trust (with England) now, as far as I am concerned. But it will all get sorted out with whoever is in charge or whoever is there. It will get sorted out, to move the team forwards, it always does in team environments.
“It is disappointing. It will come quick for all of us but we have to focus on our clubs now and doing the best job we can.”
Brown will first turn his focus to his club’s opening fixture in the European Challenge Cup against Montpellier at The Stoop on Thursday, a game to be shown live on Sky Sports. He has also set himself new targets with England, and insists that the squad does not require a major overhaul going into the Six Nations.
“In terms of the group of players we don’t need to rebuild,” Brown added. “If you look at that squad, you keep the majority of that together – obviously there will be people who play well and put their hands up that can force their way in – but you could end up with a squad with the same cap number of the New Zealand team that has just gone.
“There are some quality young players coming through, (Anthony) Watson, (Jack) Nowell, (Henry) Slade, (George) Ford and Faz (Owen Farrell) and there are other players who did not get picked who can push their way in as well.
“So if you keep the majority of those players together and you don’t need to rebuild in that sense but I think in terms of trust, given everything that has happened after the World Cup, that definitely needs rebuilding in my eyes.”
www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international...
Bye bye Lancaster: http://www.englandrugby.com/news/rfu-statement-stu...
timlongs said:
Bye bye Lancaster: http://www.englandrugby.com/news/rfu-statement-stu...
Bugger, beaten to it by three minutes, but good news I think, though very very dependent on who they replace him with.Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff