England Rugby - what is needed for a successful future....
Discussion
arguti said:
Pocock singlehandedly blew South Africa away in 2011 RWC quarterfinal - sure we can argue which side of the law he was playing but South Africa moaned at the ref instead of adapting to the situation. they lost. Cheika spent the last 12 months rebuilding the forward pack especially the front 5 and against some advice and opinions, stuck with both Hooper and Pocock.
From where I sit, two things struck me about England going into the WRC. loose forward trio (as a unit) are miles behind those of SA, Australia and NZ and the inability to choose a settled backline. Oh and the obvious lack of plan B when Marler's scrummaging was pinged by the ref.
RWC winning back rows:From where I sit, two things struck me about England going into the WRC. loose forward trio (as a unit) are miles behind those of SA, Australia and NZ and the inability to choose a settled backline. Oh and the obvious lack of plan B when Marler's scrummaging was pinged by the ref.
Edited by arguti on Wednesday 7th October 10:25
1987 Whetton/Jones/Shelford
1991 Poidevan/Ofahengaue/Croker
1995 Pienaar/Andrews/Krugar
1999 Cockbain/Wilson/Kefu
2003 Hill/Back/Dallaglio
2007 Burger/Smith/Roussow
2011 Kaino/McCaw/Read
You need a brilliant back row to win the cup. Our boys are light years away from this sort of quality.
It still hurts that it isn't Skinner/Teague/Winterbottom for 1991. My personal favourite back row ever.
bladerrw said:
RWC winning back rows:
1987 Whetton/Jones/Shelford
1991 Poidevan/Ofahengaue/Croker
1995 Pienaar/Andrews/Krugar
1999 Cockbain/Wilson/Kefu
2003 Hill/Back/Dallaglio
2007 Burger/Smith/Roussow
2011 Kaino/McCaw/Read
You need a brilliant back row to win the cup. Our boys are light years away from this sort of quality.
It still hurts that it isn't Skinner/Teague/Winterbottom for 1991. My personal favourite back row ever.
Still think we were robbed in 07, even though we weren't that good.1987 Whetton/Jones/Shelford
1991 Poidevan/Ofahengaue/Croker
1995 Pienaar/Andrews/Krugar
1999 Cockbain/Wilson/Kefu
2003 Hill/Back/Dallaglio
2007 Burger/Smith/Roussow
2011 Kaino/McCaw/Read
You need a brilliant back row to win the cup. Our boys are light years away from this sort of quality.
It still hurts that it isn't Skinner/Teague/Winterbottom for 1991. My personal favourite back row ever.
DocJock said:
Claims in the press now that Lancaster wanted Burrell (and gave him this impression) but acquiesced to Farrell and Catt who wanted Burgess.
Also suggestion that Eastmond is so pissed off he's considering going back to league.
hard to disagree with Eastwood (and LB!!!) being pissed off. Hope he doesn't go back to leagueAlso suggestion that Eastmond is so pissed off he's considering going back to league.
DocJock said:
Claims in the press now that Lancaster wanted Burrell (and gave him this impression) but acquiesced to Farrell and Catt who wanted Burgess.
Also suggestion that Eastmond is so pissed off he's considering going back to league.
Because Burgess got to play at 12 instead of him? Probably a reasonable shout on his behalf but he had some issues off field and we know Lancaster et al don't like that.Also suggestion that Eastmond is so pissed off he's considering going back to league.
DocJock said:
I think Sam Burgess is a fantastic rugby player but it was unfair to hype him up so much with so little experience (exacerbated by Mike Ford playing him in two completely disparate positions in that short time).
I don't know if it was tactical decision to use him as a crash-ball/decoy, but he seems to look for contact too often. Yes, he has great ability to get behind the man in the tackle before offloading, but once in a while he should attack the space instead to make defending against him less predictable.
Give him another season and he will be a real force imo.
Mike Ford was interviewed on R5L this week...he was categorical that Burgess is best at 6 and that the player agrees with him. "He's playing at 6 for Bath Rugby next season, England didn't pick him there because he can't jump in the lineout....that is our next priority"..."His intention is to get picked at 6 for the six nations". I don't know if it was tactical decision to use him as a crash-ball/decoy, but he seems to look for contact too often. Yes, he has great ability to get behind the man in the tackle before offloading, but once in a while he should attack the space instead to make defending against him less predictable.
Give him another season and he will be a real force imo.
Make of that what you will....clearly he's not the biggest fan of the current set up.
All the stuff coming out now about Lancaster wanting Burrell and Farrell/Catt wanted Burgess is a bit of a non story. You'd hardly expect 4 or 5 coaches to all want the same squad...of course there were f
king differences of opinion. What is clear is that the selection policy was wrong for a) the squad and b) the XV's that did get selected.
Amazing what pressure can do to what appear to be minds that normally function with relative clarity (Lancaster).
Regardless of what anyone thinks of Lancaster (and personally I thought he started off very well) as we got closer to RWC the wheels came off big time. Sure he was unlucky with the likes of Hartley (which was crucial) but he got many other things wrong....especially the back row. Robshaw is neither a great captain or a great No 7....if he good enough at 6 ? Don't know but he's certainly not an International standard No 8.
Pick Sam and build my team around him. I like him at 6 if Bath have another season of him there full time. Wood and Robshaw are not the answer for England, though The Bill & Ben show is good for 8. Step up a no 7 for England...
I've always said I like KE in the centre - closest thing to Billy Whizz I've seen in foot speed and that intimate knowledge of 1ft of space. KE and JJ could be interesting. I don't like the lack of midfield tackle oomph though so Manu needs to get his head together.
I've always said I like KE in the centre - closest thing to Billy Whizz I've seen in foot speed and that intimate knowledge of 1ft of space. KE and JJ could be interesting. I don't like the lack of midfield tackle oomph though so Manu needs to get his head together.
There are several problems areas for the next coach to sort out.
TH prop - Cole looks shot, he was playing last night looking like he genuinely didn't give a monkeys. Post the rule change on the 'hit' and his injury he looks nothing like the former world class player he was.
Hooker - Picking Youngs appears to weaken the scrum, he can't hook and we have to pick Parling to make the line out work and that weakens the scrum as well. Hartley has well known issues but his tight play is good (helped by not being part of the debacle). George may be the future.
LH - Good depth, Marler needs re-educating to stop getting refs on his back
Second row - great depth but to be fair its Launch + 1, if we have a better hooker for the lineout then we can go for more power Attwood vs Parling or Lawes
Back row - the biggest issue. No more Haskell (lack of rugby intelligence), Wood (too few good days) and Robshaw as a 7. No 8 not too bad with hopefully Hughes to come but Billy seems to be a whinging child listening to his interviews. With current players I think I would go for either Itoje or Burgess and Kvesic.
Backs - nowhere near as many issues as long as Barrett has gone. Slade really looks the business, just not sure what will be his best international position. Has to be Ford over Farrell as you've got Slade as a back up kicker when Ford has a bad day. Youngs to continue at 9, with a pack on the front foot he can be excellent, Robson to come into contention.
TH prop - Cole looks shot, he was playing last night looking like he genuinely didn't give a monkeys. Post the rule change on the 'hit' and his injury he looks nothing like the former world class player he was.
Hooker - Picking Youngs appears to weaken the scrum, he can't hook and we have to pick Parling to make the line out work and that weakens the scrum as well. Hartley has well known issues but his tight play is good (helped by not being part of the debacle). George may be the future.
LH - Good depth, Marler needs re-educating to stop getting refs on his back
Second row - great depth but to be fair its Launch + 1, if we have a better hooker for the lineout then we can go for more power Attwood vs Parling or Lawes
Back row - the biggest issue. No more Haskell (lack of rugby intelligence), Wood (too few good days) and Robshaw as a 7. No 8 not too bad with hopefully Hughes to come but Billy seems to be a whinging child listening to his interviews. With current players I think I would go for either Itoje or Burgess and Kvesic.
Backs - nowhere near as many issues as long as Barrett has gone. Slade really looks the business, just not sure what will be his best international position. Has to be Ford over Farrell as you've got Slade as a back up kicker when Ford has a bad day. Youngs to continue at 9, with a pack on the front foot he can be excellent, Robson to come into contention.
irocfan said:
Cheib said:
Robshaw is neither a great captain or a great No 7....if he good enough at 6 ? Don't know but he's certainly not an International standard No 8.
again though who would/could you pick as captain?? Launchbury could be the man to lead by example?
Who to pick instead of Robshaw?
Two options.
Firstly, the 'Robshaw option' whereby you piuck a captain and plkay him regardless if whether he is the best man in his position.
Secondly, pick your best fifteen then name a captain from those.
I prefer option two. The only guarantee of as place should be by being the best player in that position.
Two options.
Firstly, the 'Robshaw option' whereby you piuck a captain and plkay him regardless if whether he is the best man in his position.
Secondly, pick your best fifteen then name a captain from those.
I prefer option two. The only guarantee of as place should be by being the best player in that position.
Just listed to another R5L show which interviewed Billy V after the Uraguay game...had Dawson and Iain Robertson on too. Also had fuk me....so depressing
Dawson "Billy, did you have any inter-action with any former players at all ? Dallaglio, Dean Richards etc who had played in your position"
Billy V " None at all....wow, that would have been great. Why didn't we think of that?"
By contrast apparently the Aussie team were rung by a former player to be told they were in the RWC squad.
Vunipola also said that he wished he'd got to know his fellow players much better. "We didn't really get to know each other, have a beer together"
It's just so, so depressing. We just so totally fked this RWC up.
Dawson "Billy, did you have any inter-action with any former players at all ? Dallaglio, Dean Richards etc who had played in your position"
Billy V " None at all....wow, that would have been great. Why didn't we think of that?"
By contrast apparently the Aussie team were rung by a former player to be told they were in the RWC squad.
Vunipola also said that he wished he'd got to know his fellow players much better. "We didn't really get to know each other, have a beer together"
It's just so, so depressing. We just so totally f
ked this RWC up.Why have I not found this thread until now?!?!? Will have a read through but here are some of my thoughts.
Front row. Both props were ineffective in the tournament, Dan Cole looks very out of sorts but looked back to his best pre-tournament he's a very old 28 year old part of being a prop though? Youngs was getting separated when the England scrum was going awry, the majority of the pressure comes through the tight head so couple this with a lighter lock behind you I wouldn't write Cole off just yet.
I'll say this for each player though just pick on form. I'd suggest Wilson is injury cover only, he won't make the next World Cup.
Youngs, he's usually great around the park but we have to sort our set piece out if we're to rebuild successfully. I know he's a weapons grade bell end at times but Hartley to come back (Captain?!) to sort things out. George looks like a real all round prospect. Youngs to provide impact from the bench.
Loosehead. Mako looking a better all round loose head than Marler at the moment IMO. Nick Auterac from Bath is going to feature for England sooner or later I reckon.
All in all we have plenty of depth here, it's a slippery slope if refs perceive the front row as weak/problematic and before you know it your pre-WC Australia....
Locks. Lauchbury is one of my first names on the team sheet if fit seems a bit too reserved/quiet for captain? Lawes blows hot and cold but is a talented athlete, I think we need more grunt at least available on the bench. I'd like to see players like Slater and Kitchener get a run, Dave Attwood seemed far more effective as an impact sub than a starter. Depth in the second row is a blessing and a curse really need someone to step up and make it an easier decision.
Open side flanker. Some would say the game is moving into having a specialist open side, we could sort it by just getting a rocket up the arse and working on how we play and manage the breakdown. Uruguay were better than us in this area yesterday by a country mile, we need quick ball in attack and someone to pilfer/jackle/slow down the ball in attack. We were fricking glacial in both aspects in the WC.
Robshaw will loose the captaincy and should IMO, he should contest the blindside slot only. IMO he's traditionally been one of our most consistent performers but has been found wanting in pressure situations. From what I can see there aren't that many specialist opensides who are available and meet the age criteria Kvesic is the obvious one to give a run, Will Fraser is good but dogged with injury. On Robshaw he doesn't really excel at anyone thing so he may fall out of the reckoning for a while if not for good.
Blindside. I've cried for ages about the imbalance in the backrow, I'd quite happily not see Tom Wood in and England shirt ever again unless he serious turns his game/form around. See what a big, powerful ball carrier at 6 can bring. I want to see Dave Ewers have a run, he's an absolute beast will get you across the gain line and tackle all day long, he can also play 8.
There's actually quite a long list of prospects at 6. Maro Itoje is future captain material but young, he could be outstanding come the next World cup so I'd bring him in. He covers Lock and the back row so decent utility player to have. Burgess to come back at 6? He'll still be around come the next WC and if he stick with the code he'll be a hell of a player. I suspect he may go back to RL if he doesn't feature for England short term.
8. Morgan never looked fit or inform in the WC. Billy Vunipola was one who probably came out (on the field anyhow) with his credibility intact. Morgan and Billy V to contest 8 but again just pick on form.
Scrum half. Ben Youngs hot and cold Danny care ditto. These two need to develop their game as each has positives to their game that the other possess. Wigglesworth too old and too mediocre to ever feature again. Few Young guys coming through.
10. I hope George Ford's confidence isn't too knocked from his experience in the WC. I'd start Danny Cipriani with Ford as understudy. There's no room for Farrell in my new dawn for now.....
12. A lot depends on how the youngsters namely Slade are played at their clubs, he's got a better chance there than cracking 10 for England short term. In a similar vain to Slade there is Elliot Daly, really good ball playing centre. If you want someone more physical Bath's ollie Devoto is one to watch he's big and physical, really what a lot of people expected from Burgess at centre but knows the game infinitely better. Tuilangi might come back, he's not a 12 though and needs to add more to his game for me, when he's on form he gets in for what he brings in terms of physicality alone.
13. Jonathan Joseph is a country mile ahead of anyone else IMO. Tuilangi to offer bench impact if we crack 12.
Wings. May and Watson, Nowell I think is solid and a utility bench cover. I'd like to see Wade get a run of games.
Fullback. I think Brown will be past his prime come the next WC he should be around for the transition with possibly Watson being the next England FB.
So to answer the thread title- England Rugby - what is needed for a successful future? A new coaching team to come in and build a squad of players that can be contenders for the next World Cup. Lancaster lost it in selection and lack of experience IMO. We need a dominant pack back again, we have some exciting backs if they can get a platform.
I think we could be contenders for the the 6N sooner than people think.
A311's England XV Vs Scotland 2016 6N opeener
1. Vunipola
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Slater
6. Ewers
7. Kvesic
8. B Vunipola
9. Care
10. Cipriani
11. May
12. Slade
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Brown
Front row. Both props were ineffective in the tournament, Dan Cole looks very out of sorts but looked back to his best pre-tournament he's a very old 28 year old part of being a prop though? Youngs was getting separated when the England scrum was going awry, the majority of the pressure comes through the tight head so couple this with a lighter lock behind you I wouldn't write Cole off just yet.
I'll say this for each player though just pick on form. I'd suggest Wilson is injury cover only, he won't make the next World Cup.
Youngs, he's usually great around the park but we have to sort our set piece out if we're to rebuild successfully. I know he's a weapons grade bell end at times but Hartley to come back (Captain?!) to sort things out. George looks like a real all round prospect. Youngs to provide impact from the bench.
Loosehead. Mako looking a better all round loose head than Marler at the moment IMO. Nick Auterac from Bath is going to feature for England sooner or later I reckon.
All in all we have plenty of depth here, it's a slippery slope if refs perceive the front row as weak/problematic and before you know it your pre-WC Australia....
Locks. Lauchbury is one of my first names on the team sheet if fit seems a bit too reserved/quiet for captain? Lawes blows hot and cold but is a talented athlete, I think we need more grunt at least available on the bench. I'd like to see players like Slater and Kitchener get a run, Dave Attwood seemed far more effective as an impact sub than a starter. Depth in the second row is a blessing and a curse really need someone to step up and make it an easier decision.
Open side flanker. Some would say the game is moving into having a specialist open side, we could sort it by just getting a rocket up the arse and working on how we play and manage the breakdown. Uruguay were better than us in this area yesterday by a country mile, we need quick ball in attack and someone to pilfer/jackle/slow down the ball in attack. We were fricking glacial in both aspects in the WC.
Robshaw will loose the captaincy and should IMO, he should contest the blindside slot only. IMO he's traditionally been one of our most consistent performers but has been found wanting in pressure situations. From what I can see there aren't that many specialist opensides who are available and meet the age criteria Kvesic is the obvious one to give a run, Will Fraser is good but dogged with injury. On Robshaw he doesn't really excel at anyone thing so he may fall out of the reckoning for a while if not for good.
Blindside. I've cried for ages about the imbalance in the backrow, I'd quite happily not see Tom Wood in and England shirt ever again unless he serious turns his game/form around. See what a big, powerful ball carrier at 6 can bring. I want to see Dave Ewers have a run, he's an absolute beast will get you across the gain line and tackle all day long, he can also play 8.
There's actually quite a long list of prospects at 6. Maro Itoje is future captain material but young, he could be outstanding come the next World cup so I'd bring him in. He covers Lock and the back row so decent utility player to have. Burgess to come back at 6? He'll still be around come the next WC and if he stick with the code he'll be a hell of a player. I suspect he may go back to RL if he doesn't feature for England short term.
8. Morgan never looked fit or inform in the WC. Billy Vunipola was one who probably came out (on the field anyhow) with his credibility intact. Morgan and Billy V to contest 8 but again just pick on form.
Scrum half. Ben Youngs hot and cold Danny care ditto. These two need to develop their game as each has positives to their game that the other possess. Wigglesworth too old and too mediocre to ever feature again. Few Young guys coming through.
10. I hope George Ford's confidence isn't too knocked from his experience in the WC. I'd start Danny Cipriani with Ford as understudy. There's no room for Farrell in my new dawn for now.....
12. A lot depends on how the youngsters namely Slade are played at their clubs, he's got a better chance there than cracking 10 for England short term. In a similar vain to Slade there is Elliot Daly, really good ball playing centre. If you want someone more physical Bath's ollie Devoto is one to watch he's big and physical, really what a lot of people expected from Burgess at centre but knows the game infinitely better. Tuilangi might come back, he's not a 12 though and needs to add more to his game for me, when he's on form he gets in for what he brings in terms of physicality alone.
13. Jonathan Joseph is a country mile ahead of anyone else IMO. Tuilangi to offer bench impact if we crack 12.
Wings. May and Watson, Nowell I think is solid and a utility bench cover. I'd like to see Wade get a run of games.
Fullback. I think Brown will be past his prime come the next WC he should be around for the transition with possibly Watson being the next England FB.
So to answer the thread title- England Rugby - what is needed for a successful future? A new coaching team to come in and build a squad of players that can be contenders for the next World Cup. Lancaster lost it in selection and lack of experience IMO. We need a dominant pack back again, we have some exciting backs if they can get a platform.
I think we could be contenders for the the 6N sooner than people think.
A311's England XV Vs Scotland 2016 6N opeener
1. Vunipola
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Slater
6. Ewers
7. Kvesic
8. B Vunipola
9. Care
10. Cipriani
11. May
12. Slade
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Brown
Cheib said:
Just listed to another R5L show which interviewed Billy V after the Uraguay game...had Dawson and Iain Robertson on too. Also had fuk me....so depressing
Dawson "Billy, did you have any inter-action with any former players at all ? Dallaglio, Dean Richards etc who had played in your position"
Billy V " None at all....wow, that would have been great. Why didn't we think of that?"
By contrast apparently the Aussie team were rung by a former player to be told they were in the RWC squad.
Vunipola also said that he wished he'd got to know his fellow players much better. "We didn't really get to know each other, have a beer together"
It's just so, so depressing. We just so totally fked this RWC up.
Got a link to that show?Dawson "Billy, did you have any inter-action with any former players at all ? Dallaglio, Dean Richards etc who had played in your position"
Billy V " None at all....wow, that would have been great. Why didn't we think of that?"
By contrast apparently the Aussie team were rung by a former player to be told they were in the RWC squad.
Vunipola also said that he wished he'd got to know his fellow players much better. "We didn't really get to know each other, have a beer together"
It's just so, so depressing. We just so totally f
ked this RWC up.a311 said:
Why have I not found this thread until now?!?!? Will have a read through but here are some of my thoughts.
Front row. Both props were ineffective in the tournament, Dan Cole looks very out of sorts but looked back to his best pre-tournament he's a very old 28 year old part of being a prop though? Youngs was getting separated when the England scrum was going awry, the majority of the pressure comes through the tight head so couple this with a lighter lock behind you I wouldn't write Cole off just yet.
I'll say this for each player though just pick on form. I'd suggest Wilson is injury cover only, he won't make the next World Cup.
Youngs, he's usually great around the park but we have to sort our set piece out if we're to rebuild successfully. I know he's a weapons grade bell end at times but Hartley to come back (Captain?!) to sort things out. George looks like a real all round prospect. Youngs to provide impact from the bench.
Loosehead. Mako looking a better all round loose head than Marler at the moment IMO. Nick Auterac from Bath is going to feature for England sooner or later I reckon.
All in all we have plenty of depth here, it's a slippery slope if refs perceive the front row as weak/problematic and before you know it your pre-WC Australia....
Locks. Lauchbury is one of my first names on the team sheet if fit seems a bit too reserved/quiet for captain? Lawes blows hot and cold but is a talented athlete, I think we need more grunt at least available on the bench. I'd like to see players like Slater and Kitchener get a run, Dave Attwood seemed far more effective as an impact sub than a starter. Depth in the second row is a blessing and a curse really need someone to step up and make it an easier decision.
Open side flanker. Some would say the game is moving into having a specialist open side, we could sort it by just getting a rocket up the arse and working on how we play and manage the breakdown. Uruguay were better than us in this area yesterday by a country mile, we need quick ball in attack and someone to pilfer/jackle/slow down the ball in attack. We were fricking glacial in both aspects in the WC.
Robshaw will loose the captaincy and should IMO, he should contest the blindside slot only. IMO he's traditionally been one of our most consistent performers but has been found wanting in pressure situations. From what I can see there aren't that many specialist opensides who are available and meet the age criteria Kvesic is the obvious one to give a run, Will Fraser is good but dogged with injury. On Robshaw he doesn't really excel at anyone thing so he may fall out of the reckoning for a while if not for good.
Blindside. I've cried for ages about the imbalance in the backrow, I'd quite happily not see Tom Wood in and England shirt ever again unless he serious turns his game/form around. See what a big, powerful ball carrier at 6 can bring. I want to see Dave Ewers have a run, he's an absolute beast will get you across the gain line and tackle all day long, he can also play 8.
There's actually quite a long list of prospects at 6. Maro Itoje is future captain material but young, he could be outstanding come the next World cup so I'd bring him in. He covers Lock and the back row so decent utility player to have. Burgess to come back at 6? He'll still be around come the next WC and if he stick with the code he'll be a hell of a player. I suspect he may go back to RL if he doesn't feature for England short term.
8. Morgan never looked fit or inform in the WC. Billy Vunipola was one who probably came out (on the field anyhow) with his credibility intact. Morgan and Billy V to contest 8 but again just pick on form.
Scrum half. Ben Youngs hot and cold Danny care ditto. These two need to develop their game as each has positives to their game that the other possess. Wigglesworth too old and too mediocre to ever feature again. Few Young guys coming through.
10. I hope George Ford's confidence isn't too knocked from his experience in the WC. I'd start Danny Cipriani with Ford as understudy. There's no room for Farrell in my new dawn for now.....
12. A lot depends on how the youngsters namely Slade are played at their clubs, he's got a better chance there than cracking 10 for England short term. In a similar vain to Slade there is Elliot Daly, really good ball playing centre. If you want someone more physical Bath's ollie Devoto is one to watch he's big and physical, really what a lot of people expected from Burgess at centre but knows the game infinitely better. Tuilangi might come back, he's not a 12 though and needs to add more to his game for me, when he's on form he gets in for what he brings in terms of physicality alone.
13. Jonathan Joseph is a country mile ahead of anyone else IMO. Tuilangi to offer bench impact if we crack 12.
Wings. May and Watson, Nowell I think is solid and a utility bench cover. I'd like to see Wade get a run of games.
Fullback. I think Brown will be past his prime come the next WC he should be around for the transition with possibly Watson being the next England FB.
So to answer the thread title- England Rugby - what is needed for a successful future? A new coaching team to come in and build a squad of players that can be contenders for the next World Cup. Lancaster lost it in selection and lack of experience IMO. We need a dominant pack back again, we have some exciting backs if they can get a platform.
I think we could be contenders for the the 6N sooner than people think.
A311's England XV Vs Scotland 2016 6N opeener
1. Vunipola
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Slater
6. Ewers
7. Kvesic
8. B Vunipola
9. Care
10. Cipriani
11. May
12. Slade
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Brown
No Kruis anywhere?Front row. Both props were ineffective in the tournament, Dan Cole looks very out of sorts but looked back to his best pre-tournament he's a very old 28 year old part of being a prop though? Youngs was getting separated when the England scrum was going awry, the majority of the pressure comes through the tight head so couple this with a lighter lock behind you I wouldn't write Cole off just yet.
I'll say this for each player though just pick on form. I'd suggest Wilson is injury cover only, he won't make the next World Cup.
Youngs, he's usually great around the park but we have to sort our set piece out if we're to rebuild successfully. I know he's a weapons grade bell end at times but Hartley to come back (Captain?!) to sort things out. George looks like a real all round prospect. Youngs to provide impact from the bench.
Loosehead. Mako looking a better all round loose head than Marler at the moment IMO. Nick Auterac from Bath is going to feature for England sooner or later I reckon.
All in all we have plenty of depth here, it's a slippery slope if refs perceive the front row as weak/problematic and before you know it your pre-WC Australia....
Locks. Lauchbury is one of my first names on the team sheet if fit seems a bit too reserved/quiet for captain? Lawes blows hot and cold but is a talented athlete, I think we need more grunt at least available on the bench. I'd like to see players like Slater and Kitchener get a run, Dave Attwood seemed far more effective as an impact sub than a starter. Depth in the second row is a blessing and a curse really need someone to step up and make it an easier decision.
Open side flanker. Some would say the game is moving into having a specialist open side, we could sort it by just getting a rocket up the arse and working on how we play and manage the breakdown. Uruguay were better than us in this area yesterday by a country mile, we need quick ball in attack and someone to pilfer/jackle/slow down the ball in attack. We were fricking glacial in both aspects in the WC.
Robshaw will loose the captaincy and should IMO, he should contest the blindside slot only. IMO he's traditionally been one of our most consistent performers but has been found wanting in pressure situations. From what I can see there aren't that many specialist opensides who are available and meet the age criteria Kvesic is the obvious one to give a run, Will Fraser is good but dogged with injury. On Robshaw he doesn't really excel at anyone thing so he may fall out of the reckoning for a while if not for good.
Blindside. I've cried for ages about the imbalance in the backrow, I'd quite happily not see Tom Wood in and England shirt ever again unless he serious turns his game/form around. See what a big, powerful ball carrier at 6 can bring. I want to see Dave Ewers have a run, he's an absolute beast will get you across the gain line and tackle all day long, he can also play 8.
There's actually quite a long list of prospects at 6. Maro Itoje is future captain material but young, he could be outstanding come the next World cup so I'd bring him in. He covers Lock and the back row so decent utility player to have. Burgess to come back at 6? He'll still be around come the next WC and if he stick with the code he'll be a hell of a player. I suspect he may go back to RL if he doesn't feature for England short term.
8. Morgan never looked fit or inform in the WC. Billy Vunipola was one who probably came out (on the field anyhow) with his credibility intact. Morgan and Billy V to contest 8 but again just pick on form.
Scrum half. Ben Youngs hot and cold Danny care ditto. These two need to develop their game as each has positives to their game that the other possess. Wigglesworth too old and too mediocre to ever feature again. Few Young guys coming through.
10. I hope George Ford's confidence isn't too knocked from his experience in the WC. I'd start Danny Cipriani with Ford as understudy. There's no room for Farrell in my new dawn for now.....
12. A lot depends on how the youngsters namely Slade are played at their clubs, he's got a better chance there than cracking 10 for England short term. In a similar vain to Slade there is Elliot Daly, really good ball playing centre. If you want someone more physical Bath's ollie Devoto is one to watch he's big and physical, really what a lot of people expected from Burgess at centre but knows the game infinitely better. Tuilangi might come back, he's not a 12 though and needs to add more to his game for me, when he's on form he gets in for what he brings in terms of physicality alone.
13. Jonathan Joseph is a country mile ahead of anyone else IMO. Tuilangi to offer bench impact if we crack 12.
Wings. May and Watson, Nowell I think is solid and a utility bench cover. I'd like to see Wade get a run of games.
Fullback. I think Brown will be past his prime come the next WC he should be around for the transition with possibly Watson being the next England FB.
So to answer the thread title- England Rugby - what is needed for a successful future? A new coaching team to come in and build a squad of players that can be contenders for the next World Cup. Lancaster lost it in selection and lack of experience IMO. We need a dominant pack back again, we have some exciting backs if they can get a platform.
I think we could be contenders for the the 6N sooner than people think.
A311's England XV Vs Scotland 2016 6N opeener
1. Vunipola
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Slater
6. Ewers
7. Kvesic
8. B Vunipola
9. Care
10. Cipriani
11. May
12. Slade
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Brown
timlongs said:
Cheib said:
Just listed to another R5L show which interviewed Billy V after the Uraguay game...had Dawson and Iain Robertson on too. Also had fuk me....so depressing
Dawson "Billy, did you have any inter-action with any former players at all ? Dallaglio, Dean Richards etc who had played in your position"
Billy V " None at all....wow, that would have been great. Why didn't we think of that?"
By contrast apparently the Aussie team were rung by a former player to be told they were in the RWC squad.
Vunipola also said that he wished he'd got to know his fellow players much better. "We didn't really get to know each other, have a beer together"
It's just so, so depressing. We just so totally fked this RWC up.
Got a link to that show?Dawson "Billy, did you have any inter-action with any former players at all ? Dallaglio, Dean Richards etc who had played in your position"
Billy V " None at all....wow, that would have been great. Why didn't we think of that?"
By contrast apparently the Aussie team were rung by a former player to be told they were in the RWC squad.
Vunipola also said that he wished he'd got to know his fellow players much better. "We didn't really get to know each other, have a beer together"
It's just so, so depressing. We just so totally f
ked this RWC up.http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p034x301
The Radio 5 Live Sports Specials have some pretty good stuff on them.
One of thing in that programme is a post match interview with Lancaster....does not sound like a man who will be in his job for much longer.
Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff