Rugby Union - Gym Monkey's Watch Out
Discussion
Went to the game yesterday and ended up discussing the issues and future of the game with some very well known aficionado's.
Plans are afoot to follow a similar code to that adopted , and being adopted in League. The main concerns are as follows:
1) Actual time ball is in play
2) Injuries
3) Appeal to the broader public
The ball is in play for a whole 24 minutes on average, in premiership and international rugby......24 minutes. Thats it. Unbelievable.
in League it's 59 minutes.
The main reason for this is the ridiculous time it takes to set scrums and line-outs, something they call 'Committee time'. They want to reduce it, and now.
They are proposing to implement strict time limits on all areas of the game to reduce this 'Committee Time', and encouraging rapid turnarounds at set pieces.
This massive shift would place far more emphasis on the aerobic capacity of the players, rather than the bulk as the forwards currently, simply could not maintain the stamina to reach and set each set piece within the time limits being proposed.
Scrums would still be 'scrums' and not League chicken scratches, but with far less weight and pressure due to the lighter players, leading to less injuries combined with more ball time in play.....appealing to a wider audience.
Personally, I think its an inspired idea, and the sooner this is implemented the better.
Burgess was also touched on....looking back at Aus and not surprising.
Plans are afoot to follow a similar code to that adopted , and being adopted in League. The main concerns are as follows:
1) Actual time ball is in play
2) Injuries
3) Appeal to the broader public
The ball is in play for a whole 24 minutes on average, in premiership and international rugby......24 minutes. Thats it. Unbelievable.
in League it's 59 minutes.
The main reason for this is the ridiculous time it takes to set scrums and line-outs, something they call 'Committee time'. They want to reduce it, and now.
They are proposing to implement strict time limits on all areas of the game to reduce this 'Committee Time', and encouraging rapid turnarounds at set pieces.
This massive shift would place far more emphasis on the aerobic capacity of the players, rather than the bulk as the forwards currently, simply could not maintain the stamina to reach and set each set piece within the time limits being proposed.
Scrums would still be 'scrums' and not League chicken scratches, but with far less weight and pressure due to the lighter players, leading to less injuries combined with more ball time in play.....appealing to a wider audience.
Personally, I think its an inspired idea, and the sooner this is implemented the better.
Burgess was also touched on....looking back at Aus and not surprising.
Seems like a great idea.
I'd also like to see a ban on the teams from bringing tea and cakes onto the pitch everytime play stops, that might also encourage them to speed up as well.
Maybe someone from the forwards union can answer something I've wondered for a while.
If the ball is put in straighter at the scrums would it reduce the shove and likelihood of collapsing?
Losing 1/8th of the legs pushing on each side could only be a good thing couldn't it?
I'd also like to see a ban on the teams from bringing tea and cakes onto the pitch everytime play stops, that might also encourage them to speed up as well.
Maybe someone from the forwards union can answer something I've wondered for a while.
If the ball is put in straighter at the scrums would it reduce the shove and likelihood of collapsing?
Losing 1/8th of the legs pushing on each side could only be a good thing couldn't it?
90,000 people turned out to watch Romania v Ireland. I don't think there's an issue with public appeal. As for the time that the ball is in play? Well, it didn't exactly reduce the watchability of the Wales-Australia game, or the Japan-SA game. Or countless others so far this world cup. I'd rather watch them than basketball, where the ball is in play all the bloody time.
Anything that turns rugby union into a form of rugby league is to be resisted. Not because league is an inferior game (I love it) but because I don't think people need to be spoon fed entertainment. Union is what it is. Sometimes fast and mad, sometimes slow and attritional. Speed up the scrums, certainly, and the line-out, but props are props and there will be a natural limit to their size anyway. We already know that the average weight of players is slowing dramatically due to the fact that you can only shift a certain amount of weight around the park for 80 minutes. I doubt forwards in particular will get much bigger than they are now to be honest.
League may see the ball in play for twice the time but if you're telling me that there's no such thing as a dull rugby league game, I'd consider you mistaken.
Anything that turns rugby union into a form of rugby league is to be resisted. Not because league is an inferior game (I love it) but because I don't think people need to be spoon fed entertainment. Union is what it is. Sometimes fast and mad, sometimes slow and attritional. Speed up the scrums, certainly, and the line-out, but props are props and there will be a natural limit to their size anyway. We already know that the average weight of players is slowing dramatically due to the fact that you can only shift a certain amount of weight around the park for 80 minutes. I doubt forwards in particular will get much bigger than they are now to be honest.
League may see the ball in play for twice the time but if you're telling me that there's no such thing as a dull rugby league game, I'd consider you mistaken.
Joey Ramone said:
90,000 people turned out to watch Romania v Ireland. I don't think there's an issue with public appeal. As for the time that the ball is in play? Well, it didn't exactly reduce the watchability of the Wales-Australia game, or the Japan-SA game. Or countless others so far this world cup. I'd rather watch them than basketball, where the ball is in play all the bloody time.
Anything that turns rugby union into a form of rugby league is to be resisted. Not because league is an inferior game (I love it) but because I don't think people need to be spoon fed entertainment. Union is what it is. Sometimes fast and mad, sometimes slow and attritional. Speed up the scrums, certainly, and the line-out, but props are props and there will be a natural limit to their size anyway. We already know that the average weight of players is slowing dramatically due to the fact that you can only shift a certain amount of weight around the park for 80 minutes. I doubt forwards in particular will get much bigger than they are now to be honest.
League may see the ball in play for twice the time but if you're telling me that there's no such thing as a dull rugby league game, I'd consider you mistaken.
Would agree with that. I actually play both and am a season ticket holder at Leeds Rhinos. The last few weeks of the League season have seen some phenomenal games, but previous to that I have watched some abysmally one sided games this year.Anything that turns rugby union into a form of rugby league is to be resisted. Not because league is an inferior game (I love it) but because I don't think people need to be spoon fed entertainment. Union is what it is. Sometimes fast and mad, sometimes slow and attritional. Speed up the scrums, certainly, and the line-out, but props are props and there will be a natural limit to their size anyway. We already know that the average weight of players is slowing dramatically due to the fact that you can only shift a certain amount of weight around the park for 80 minutes. I doubt forwards in particular will get much bigger than they are now to be honest.
League may see the ball in play for twice the time but if you're telling me that there's no such thing as a dull rugby league game, I'd consider you mistaken.
I've always appreciated that the fitness set needed for the codes are very different. League demands much more explosive power with the ability to stop and reset (certainly in an offensive set) whereas I always felt that Union tested my stamina more due to the constant need to be on the move to get to the breakdown - however more recently the amount of time spent on the set piece has reduced this aerobic element somewhat
I have seen something about a trial of 6 point tries and 2 point kicks which I think would be a good idea to attempt to move the game away from place kicking
League has its' issues as well (I hate the scrums) but I think that union has definitely moved closer to it in certain ways (crash ball, crooked feeds etc.)
rugby union could benefit from independent time keeping and wider use of Time off...the delays in place kicks in particular are embarrassing.
league doesn't have everything right and union is a more complex game but suffers at levels below international as a tv product as it is generally slower than league and a victim of its technicalities until you get to the top level.
if you simplify the rules though you risk losing some of the skills in the game like proper rucking and mauling which shouldn't be sacrificed in the aim of simpler rules.
enforcing straighter line out and scrum feeds would help as that seems to have slipped a bit.
i've been impressed by the levels of physicality and impacts in the RWC though.
league doesn't have everything right and union is a more complex game but suffers at levels below international as a tv product as it is generally slower than league and a victim of its technicalities until you get to the top level.
if you simplify the rules though you risk losing some of the skills in the game like proper rucking and mauling which shouldn't be sacrificed in the aim of simpler rules.
enforcing straighter line out and scrum feeds would help as that seems to have slipped a bit.
i've been impressed by the levels of physicality and impacts in the RWC though.
London424 said:
Matt_N said:
Time limits on penalty and conversion kicks would help, some players milk a minute or so with their routines.
I think there already is one. isn't it 60 or 90 seconds?Also pretty sure I watched officials watching crooked feeds at scrums and not bothering.
Don Veloci said:
London424 said:
Matt_N said:
Time limits on penalty and conversion kicks would help, some players milk a minute or so with their routines.
I think there already is one. isn't it 60 or 90 seconds?Also pretty sure I watched officials watching crooked feeds at scrums and not bothering.
So I have been tolled, in the scrum the hooker has to lift his foot to strike the ball to feed it to the second row/no8
To do this he must not take any pressure on that side of his body and moves slightly away from the tight heads shoulder.
the tight head then has to take all of the force from the opposition hooker and loose head prop
the crooked feed comes from this as the hooker doesn't want to lift his foot and stop pushing on that side to give the opposition the advantage
I played second row for a while and this is how one of my front row friends described the problem
To do this he must not take any pressure on that side of his body and moves slightly away from the tight heads shoulder.
the tight head then has to take all of the force from the opposition hooker and loose head prop
the crooked feed comes from this as the hooker doesn't want to lift his foot and stop pushing on that side to give the opposition the advantage
I played second row for a while and this is how one of my front row friends described the problem
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