Sam Burgess goes back to rugby league!
Discussion
I think we should view them as completely different games, and apart from some very unique circumstances, if you choose to play league as a youngster, then go that route, same if you choose union.
Union is such a different beast and has evolved significantly in how different positions function, and with a decent talent pool in most positions why is there the need for any crossover?
It was too late for Burgess to make the switch, at 26 he's established a league mindset and is an amazing player, so I have no idea why he suddenly thought it was a good idea to make a change.
I still say wing might have suited him better, he's pretty quick and could have done some damage out wide. The type of play is more like league than what center is, and there's less looking after the ball when going to ground, or joining rucks etc. Number 6 is out of the question IMO, look at how the best sixes play and it's pure instinct, Burgess left it too late for that.
Overall it was a massive non event. Loads of hype, loads of expectations, and in the end nothing to show for it except a return back to where he was.
Union is such a different beast and has evolved significantly in how different positions function, and with a decent talent pool in most positions why is there the need for any crossover?
It was too late for Burgess to make the switch, at 26 he's established a league mindset and is an amazing player, so I have no idea why he suddenly thought it was a good idea to make a change.
I still say wing might have suited him better, he's pretty quick and could have done some damage out wide. The type of play is more like league than what center is, and there's less looking after the ball when going to ground, or joining rucks etc. Number 6 is out of the question IMO, look at how the best sixes play and it's pure instinct, Burgess left it too late for that.
Overall it was a massive non event. Loads of hype, loads of expectations, and in the end nothing to show for it except a return back to where he was.
hornetrider said:
Actually Will Greenwood (as usual) writes an excellent article.
For once, I thought he actually wrote a completely rubbish article! It struck me as a load of rambling guff that never really got anywhere, and started from a rock solid belief that just because Burgess was good in League, he should've been good in Union.
Thunderhead said:
I think we should view them as completely different games, and apart from some very unique circumstances, if you choose to play league as a youngster, then go that route, same if you choose union.
Union is such a different beast and has evolved significantly in how different positions function, and with a decent talent pool in most positions why is there the need for any crossover?
It was too late for Burgess to make the switch, at 26 he's established a league mindset and is an amazing player, so I have no idea why he suddenly thought it was a good idea to make a change.
I still say wing might have suited him better, he's pretty quick and could have done some damage out wide. The type of play is more like league than what center is, and there's less looking after the ball when going to ground, or joining rucks etc. Number 6 is out of the question IMO, look at how the best sixes play and it's pure instinct, Burgess left it too late for that.
Overall it was a massive non event. Loads of hype, loads of expectations, and in the end nothing to show for it except a return back to where he was.
Too slow, and he had no kicking game. The modern back 3 need a kicking game.Union is such a different beast and has evolved significantly in how different positions function, and with a decent talent pool in most positions why is there the need for any crossover?
It was too late for Burgess to make the switch, at 26 he's established a league mindset and is an amazing player, so I have no idea why he suddenly thought it was a good idea to make a change.
I still say wing might have suited him better, he's pretty quick and could have done some damage out wide. The type of play is more like league than what center is, and there's less looking after the ball when going to ground, or joining rucks etc. Number 6 is out of the question IMO, look at how the best sixes play and it's pure instinct, Burgess left it too late for that.
Overall it was a massive non event. Loads of hype, loads of expectations, and in the end nothing to show for it except a return back to where he was.
Perhaps I'm being cynical as to me he never looked at ease in Union and I reckon the only reason he swapped codes was because he was guaranteed a place in our WC squad(by Farrell snr who really was running the whole thing and not Burt. Why else would Redmond or Burrell be dropped for someone playing out of position with little experience in the game) and he would've left and gone back to league regardless. If we'd done well in the RWC he could've said I've enjoyed my time and it was great to be part of the squad or as it happens we tanked and he has gone back to where he's most comfortable. All in all a fairly shoddy affair by all concerned imgo.
Massively simplistic but Burgess was built like an RFU back row but played in the centre (for England at least)....plenty of other big men like him on the park. Looking at the England Rugby League team all the squad players are roughly 85kg to 105 kg...Burgess is 115KG. Physically he towered over the rest of the GB RL team....much less so on the Union pitch. I was listening to one of his England RL team mates of R5 the other night....he talked about how Burgess for 90 mins could just detroy teams with his phyciality and his ability to do it repeatedly over 90 mins. I am sure he's got some amazing stats but when the opposition has got half a dozen blokes as big and a few bigger than you it's not quite so easy.
I know there's a lot more to his game but physically he was nowhere near as dominating.
I know there's a lot more to his game but physically he was nowhere near as dominating.
Cheib said:
Massively simplistic but Burgess was built like an RFU back row but played in the centre (for England at least)....plenty of other big men like him on the park. Looking at the England Rugby League team all the squad players are roughly 85kg to 105 kg...Burgess is 115KG. Physically he towered over the rest of the GB RL team....much less so on the Union pitch. I was listening to one of his England RL team mates of R5 the other night....he talked about how Burgess for 90 mins could just detroy teams with his phyciality and his ability to do it repeatedly over 90 mins. I am sure he's got some amazing stats but when the opposition has got half a dozen blokes as big and a few bigger than you it's not quite so easy.
I know there's a lot more to his game but physically he was nowhere near as dominating.
This is true. He never exhibited the sort of physical domination that people expected of him. I think much of that was to do with the time and space he was provided in League to take the ball into contact. You just don't get that in Union, and when you're playing 6 you may well be the lightest bloke in the pack.I know there's a lot more to his game but physically he was nowhere near as dominating.
Joey Ramone said:
Cheib said:
Massively simplistic but Burgess was built like an RFU back row but played in the centre (for England at least)....plenty of other big men like him on the park. Looking at the England Rugby League team all the squad players are roughly 85kg to 105 kg...Burgess is 115KG. Physically he towered over the rest of the GB RL team....much less so on the Union pitch. I was listening to one of his England RL team mates of R5 the other night....he talked about how Burgess for 90 mins could just detroy teams with his phyciality and his ability to do it repeatedly over 90 mins. I am sure he's got some amazing stats but when the opposition has got half a dozen blokes as big and a few bigger than you it's not quite so easy.
I know there's a lot more to his game but physically he was nowhere near as dominating.
This is true. He never exhibited the sort of physical domination that people expected of him. I think much of that was to do with the time and space he was provided in League to take the ball into contact. You just don't get that in Union, and when you're playing 6 you may well be the lightest bloke in the pack.I know there's a lot more to his game but physically he was nowhere near as dominating.
If I were him I'd me going back to my family and friends, too - one downside of the World Cup for me is an increasingly football-esque hysteria in the media, and he's been on the wrong end of that: why put up with it when the alternative is to be at the very top of the tree in League?
IroningMan said:
One my Australian colleagues is an accomplished Aussie Rules player and RL fan: listening to him talk about Burgess a year ago I was expecting a Jonah Lomu moment when he first ran out for Bath - and he made a difference, but nothing like as much of a difference as Peter Stringer did at the opposite end of the spectrum a year (or was it two years?) earlier.
If I were him I'd me going back to my family and friends, too - one downside of the World Cup for me is an increasingly football-esque hysteria in the media, and he's been on the wrong end of that: why put up with it when the alternative is to be at the very top of the tree in League?
I suppose for someone with his level of achievement in league, finding out he can't hack it in union must be hard to take.If I were him I'd me going back to my family and friends, too - one downside of the World Cup for me is an increasingly football-esque hysteria in the media, and he's been on the wrong end of that: why put up with it when the alternative is to be at the very top of the tree in League?
He could've stuck around to see if he could hack it, I suppose, but the risk then is that he takes a couple of extra years to find out that he really can't hack it, at which point how would he look people in the eye when he went back to league?
I reckon he's realised he's never going to be anything special in union, so he's using all the crap over the England selection as an excuse to do a runner without having to admit his failure.
Cheib said:
albundy89 said:
Sonny bill managed the transition,quite successfully and back again and back again
Yes but he spent two years playing club rugby in France before going to NZ.Good article from Burgess explaining why he's left: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/articl...
..and another reason why he's going back. He misses his mum.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/sam-bu...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/sam-bu...
Smollet said:
..and another reason why he's going back. He misses his mum.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/sam-bu...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/sam-bu...
0000 said:
Didn't realise he had three brothers playing league back there, that must be a reasonable pull.
Anyone interested in learning a bit more about him - Slammin Sam (Youtube)Just read Mike Ford's comments today about Burgess and it all sounds a bit petty. A few days ago Burgess for the main man but now signing Denton from Edinburgh to replace Burgess apparently leaves Bath in a "stronger position". Good luck to SB, he went on his terms and he probably has no regrets after seeing the superb backing shown by Mike Ford...
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