The Running Thread Vol 2

[944fan]

Gargamel said:

944fan said:

Yeah. My Garmin is showing for an 18km run I am burning 2200. Even if that's over estimating by 20% it is still a lot.

I don't think I am doing too much. ts either fueling or I don't have the endurance to maintain that speed.

The first half of the HM is up hill so I am going to focus on keeping my pace slow and then speed up when I get to the flat.

I think you are already over fueling. 4 gels for a 12m run ? Plus a Lucozade sport and a carb heavy breakfast. My reckoning is that is close to 600 calories in that lot. Most Gels are around 100 calories.
Porridge (with water) is 50 calories per 100g - so weigh it out.
Lucozade around 50 Calories.

To me that seems a lot, I will typically run anything up to about 8 miles on empty (water only) admittedly I am only 80 kgs, but even so.

Think you leg strength sessions are also an issue. Try a week of just stretching and short dynamic (weight free) exercise. Eg weight free squats, lunges, hip rotations etc - about 2 sets of 5 or 6 maximum.

Then long stretches, hip flexor always hard to really stretch, lots of hip/trunk rotations.

Distance/speed you are going long, but at a slow pace. Mix it up. try a four mile run at 9mm or even 8:30 mm if you can hold it. It should help you build strength in those muscles without taking them too far to soon.

What is the deal with your weight are you a gym hound with a lot of muscle on, or are you a big lad looking to lose some tub ? If the latter, then diet is quicker and easier than long runs, especially if you need to pack the suger away to get round.

Thanks. I am 6'5', 17 stone. I have a large frame and am broad, but am also carrying a chunk of fat. Am working in calorie deficit to bring the weight down and that is working fine.

I am following a training plan from a coach with different sessions in. Its only the LSD runs that I have a problem with. At the mo I do an intervals session one day (either hill repeats or 2 x 2.5 km at 10k pace), a Z1 recovery job and then a long run. From next week the plan move to more intense intervals (500m repeats, tempo runs etc) and the Z1 recovery is replaced with a 30 min Z2, increasing 5 mins each week.

I think you and Halb are right and its leg strength/endurance that is the issue and not fuel.

The HM on 2nd May was never in the plan originally. The training plan takes me to a Half Ironman Tri in July. I entered the laugh because it is down the road, my wife is doing it and I thought it would be fun.

I have dropped the strength sessions last few weeks, still doing core work 3 x week but nothing else.

I will work on the stretching and free weight exercises

[bigandclever]

944fan said:

Thanks. I am 6'5', 17 stone. I have a large frame and am broad, but am also carrying a chunk of fat. Am working in calorie deficit to bring the weight down and that is working fine.

This is personal opinion, not scientific fact ... you may be better off training your body to use its fat reserves for fuel, not rely on sugar gels. I don't bother with gels on halves, or any lower training mileages; I don't think the body needs that extra, 'easy' fuel.

[ocrx8]

2:38 yesterday, first marathon and what an atmosphere - would recommend London to anyone. Legs today...

[Mothersruin]

Well done! ^^

I, on the other hand, have only just started running really.

I used to be mega-fit (Army for six years) but that was a long time ago.

I gave up smoking last October and decided before Christmas to start running. I was in Dubai then and I hated running in the heat and humidity so I wasn't exactly motivated. I'm now back in the UK on the Welsh borders so it's hilly and has 'weather' but I'm loving it.

I had the intention of doing a couple of 5km runs a week but I've found a loop I really like that is 7km and I've done that a few times now. I tried a 5km last week at a faster than usual pace, but not killing it, and managed a 28:41. Hardly going to set the world on fire but I'm proud of myself as I couldn't have done it even a few months ago.

I intend to get some more mileage going each week and then later in the year look at fun runs as a starter.

Great to find this thread and I've joined the PH Strava club. Don't laugh at my times

Going to try and do over 10km for the first this evening, at a gentle pace for the hell of it and to place a marker.

[john2443]

y2blade said:

So the bint from TOWIE ran the second half in just under 48mins?!

http://results-2016.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/...




"TAXI"

And yes, she is now under investigation by the VLM organisers...................

Did she take the 'shortcut' as she came off Tower bridge and miss out docklands?

[Halb]

944fan said:

I think you and Halb are right and its leg strength/endurance that is the issue and not fuel.

I have dropped the strength sessions last few weeks, still doing core work 3 x week but nothing else.

I will work on the stretching and free weight exercises

I know I can't do both running and legs. In my annual run to the the 10k, I have learned to drop the legs. I go back to them after normal service is resumed.

bigandclever said:

This is personal opinion, not scientific fact ... you may be better off training your body to use its fat reserves for fuel, not rely on sugar gels. I don't bother with gels on halves, or any lower training mileages; I don't think the body needs that extra, 'easy' fuel.

I agree, when I started my 16/8 a few years ago it was a revelation, I lost my chunk and got down at my best to 10% bf at around 110kgs. However, I will add the proviso that if athletic endeavour is the more immediate goal, as opposed to general fitness/aesthetics, I have found that adding 'easy' sugar is necessary/beneficial. It's a fine balance but after playing around with weights/running for the last 8 years or so, I think it is what works best for me. I change my fasted runs to fuelled runs.


...after saying that....fk, just done my big run. Utter disaster. Had to stop around a dozen times.
I just don't know what is going on, felt so tired, I had chicken, mayo and beetroot at 1, but felt bloated and crampy. I was wearing skins, and...fk, just was so tired. Strava says it was 9.5km when I know it was 10.5 minimum, maybe the stop start thing took off a klick. I burned 1,200 kcals which seems right.
I did have a gym sesh yesterday, but no lower body stuff, all upper body, it was lengthy, could that have carried over...

[markh1973]

Halb said:

944fan said:

I think you and Halb are right and its leg strength/endurance that is the issue and not fuel.

I have dropped the strength sessions last few weeks, still doing core work 3 x week but nothing else.

I will work on the stretching and free weight exercises

I know I can't do both running and legs. In my annual run to the the 10k, I have learned to drop the legs. I go back to them after normal service is resumed.

bigandclever said:

This is personal opinion, not scientific fact ... you may be better off training your body to use its fat reserves for fuel, not rely on sugar gels. I don't bother with gels on halves, or any lower training mileages; I don't think the body needs that extra, 'easy' fuel.

I agree, when I started my 16/8 a few years ago it was a revelation, I lost my chunk and got down at my best to 10% bf at around 110kgs. However, I will add the proviso that if athletic endeavour is the more immediate goal, as opposed to general fitness/aesthetics, I have found that adding 'easy' sugar is necessary/beneficial. It's a fine balance but after playing around with weights/running for the last 8 years or so, I think it is what works best for me. I change my fasted runs to fuelled runs.


...after saying that....fk, just done my big run. Utter disaster. Had to stop around a dozen times.
I just don't know what is going on, felt so tired, I had chicken, mayo and beetroot at 1, but felt bloated and crampy. I was wearing skins, and...fk, just was so tired. Strava says it was 9.5km when I know it was 10.5 minimum, maybe the stop start thing took off a klick. I burned 1,200 kcals which seems right.
I did have a gym sesh yesterday, but no lower body stuff, all upper body, it was lengthy, could that have carried over...

Sometimes you just have an off day - everyone has one from time to time.

Fuelling is a very personal thing - I never use anything for 15 miles or less. Above that it gets a bit hit and miss but can depend on the event. Beachy Head marathon and Steyning Stinger were mars bars and sausage rolls. Brighton marathon was gels.

[Mothersruin]

Well I did it!

My first 10km run and by proxy, my first 5 miler, 6 miler and hour plus run too. I did it in 1:06

I managed to keep my heart rate to an average of 156 and maxed at 163 which is exactly what I wanted as my Garmin told me the other day that it was my Lactate Threshold, and I didn't want to go any higher than that. I also kept to the 3 beat breath thing too.

Quite pleased with myself.

I know it's at a snail's pace compared to you whippets.

Edited by Mothersruin on Monday 25th April 22:15

[Gargamel]

10k in 1:05 for a first one is pretty decent. so don't be too hard,

My PB is only 50mins though I tend to run hilly trails.

good stuff

[Jordan210]

If anyones interested.

I think you can get a Tom tom runner 2 cardio and music with bluetooth headphones for £130.

Just seeing if another place will price match it with free postage to make i cheaper. Will post details late if any ones interested.

[944fan]

bigandclever said:

944fan said:

Thanks. I am 6'5', 17 stone. I have a large frame and am broad, but am also carrying a chunk of fat. Am working in calorie deficit to bring the weight down and that is working fine.

This is personal opinion, not scientific fact ... you may be better off training your body to use its fat reserves for fuel, not rely on sugar gels. I don't bother with gels on halves, or any lower training mileages; I don't think the body needs that extra, 'easy' fuel.

Yes I think that is what I am doing in some respects. A lot of my training is long slow on the bike and run to build that fat burning process. I am either going off too fast and using too much glycogen, or as others have said above its strength/endurance in the legs that is slowing me down.

[AbzST64]

Hi guys

Bit of information required for marathon training for those in the know...!
Looking at doing a Marathon end of July but not ran one before but I am a very competent runner.
I run 5k 18min, 10k 38min & have done a half in 1.30 so I can 'run'.
What type of training would I need to do for a marathon? Just up my mileage a bit?
I run around 50k a week split between, steady 6/10mile runs to hill reps to interval training.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[callmedave]

AbzST64 said:

Hi guys

Bit of information required for marathon training for those in the know...!
Looking at doing a Marathon end of July but not ran one before but I am a very competent runner.
I run 5k 18min, 10k 38min & have done a half in 1.30 so I can 'run'.
What type of training would I need to do for a marathon? Just up my mileage a bit?
I run around 50k a week split between, steady 6/10mile runs to hill reps to interval training.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

10k in 38 mins? that quick. have you got really long legs?

My advice is this
do a quick 5-8k run
rest
do a medium 10-14k run
rest
do a slow run as far as you can.

Repeat.
increase your slow run distance about 2 k each time until you are up to marathon ish distance 35/40k

before the marathon do your quick and medium runs as usual, count the marathon as your slow long run.

Your body will get use to the pattern and find the marathon much easier.

This is just my advice gained from experience. please pick and choose what you want from it.

[KTF]

AbzST64 said:

Hi guys

Bit of information required for marathon training for those in the know...!
Looking at doing a Marathon end of July but not ran one before but I am a very competent runner.
I run 5k 18min, 10k 38min & have done a half in 1.30 so I can 'run'.
What type of training would I need to do for a marathon? Just up my mileage a bit?
I run around 50k a week split between, steady 6/10mile runs to hill reps to interval training.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Here are a couple of guides to give you an idea of a plan:

3:15 http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/racing/rws-ultimate-...
3:30 http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/racing/rws-ultimate-...

[nofuse22]

I am/was pretty similar to you: 5km park run low 18mns and 10k c.38mins. I did an off road (but flat) marathon in 3hrs 15. This was 2nd mara but looking at strava did no more than 30 miles a week in 4 weeks coming up to it. So one long run of 15-20 miles per week and a few others.

Up until 20 miles was on track for 3 hrs (just under 7min /mile splits) and felt pretty good. Regret not doing more 20 mi + training runs but work and family got in way!

If you have rptime to train defo aim for sub 3 hrs.

[AbzST64]

Thanks for your input guys

Yes I was hoping to be around the 3hr mark so with adjusting my training a bit it shouldn't be too out of reach for me! Think as you guys say, get a few more longer runs into my legs which I know I need and the rest is already there pretty much!

Have 3 races in May (5k, 10k & a hill race) so won't be till end of May I can fully commit but 8 weeks should be enough..!

[andy_s]

ewenm - I see Robbie is doing the Fling this w/end - should be a fast year as it's part of UK Ultra Trail series, thanks feck I'm at work!

Doing Glen Lyon next week though, last biggy until Cape Wrath...

[944fan]

Went out for a quick run tonight. Took 1:40 off my 5k PB. 26 mins dead. Not too bad considering I still weigh 107 Kg. I had already swum 3.5km this morning as well.

[Mothersruin]

944fan said:

Went out for a quick run tonight. Took 1:40 off my 5k PB. 26 mins dead. Not too bad considering I still weigh 107 Kg. I had already swum 3.5km this morning as well.

Awesome stuff!

I'm still trying simply get miles under my belt to get fitter and try and repair the damage after 30 plus years of smoking 20 a day. I'm just taking it easy and going to add a few extra kms each week.

Oh, and I'm bizarrely enjoying the running in the crappy weather, although the freezing rain this afternoon near the end of the run was brutal. I much preferred the snow earlier in the week

Edited by Mothersruin on Thursday 28th April 23:42

[ewenm]

andy_s said:

ewenm - I see Robbie is doing the Fling this w/end - should be a fast year as it's part of UK Ultra Trail series, thanks feck I'm at work!

Doing Glen Lyon next week though, last biggy until Cape Wrath...

Yes, stacked field this year. Hopefully Robbie can do well though.