The Running Thread Vol 2
Discussion
AndStilliRise said:
Thanks man, incredible times. Can i ask what age you were when you were doing those sorts of times? I am 40 this year and feeling it! Sub3 just seems sooo difficult!
I turned 30 about week before that log starts. 36 now and feel that that marathon time is achievable, but only after a consistent block of 80mpw+. That's the tough part as I'm too busy working on powerful build, company directorships, facial hair (and 2 young kids) to run more than 60ish. 40 shouldn't be a barrier, but you may need to balance intensity with recovery (which is not the same as rest). One of my club mates has to be the master of getting this right - there's some of his secrets in this article: http://www.athleticsweekly.com/featured/consistenc...
onedsla said:
AndStilliRise said:
Thanks man, incredible times. Can i ask what age you were when you were doing those sorts of times? I am 40 this year and feeling it! Sub3 just seems sooo difficult!
I turned 30 about week before that log starts. 36 now and feel that that marathon time is achievable, but only after a consistent block of 80mpw+. That's the tough part as I'm too busy working on powerful build, company directorships, facial hair (and 2 young kids) to run more than 60ish. 40 shouldn't be a barrier, but you may need to balance intensity with recovery (which is not the same as rest). One of my club mates has to be the master of getting this right - there's some of his secrets in this article: http://www.athleticsweekly.com/featured/consistenc...
10m for me today, 1:20. Nice and steady. Hamstring is still hurting, but good to finally get some steady running in. Most of the medium/longs are generally at 9mm pace. Last year i read a few things/talked to a few people about running slow to race fast. Didn't think it made sense but now that i am doing it seems to be offering an enjoyable way to mile.
At some stage need to start doing tempos at 7mm again, at the moment it is a scary thought but if i am to progress. Want to get another couple of weeks of endurance in first though before i start attacking times.
I'm sure this has come up before but any suggestions for a decent but not excessively expensive running head torch? Signing up for a night race in Bristol in February but don't currently have the kit. There aren't too many events where I can make use of it so ideally don't want to spend more than £30-50.
ukaskew said:
I'm sure this has come up before but any suggestions for a decent but not excessively expensive running head torch? Signing up for a night race in Bristol in February but don't currently have the kit. There aren't too many events where I can make use of it so ideally don't want to spend more than £30-50.
I use a Nitecore HC30 and think it's brilliant. It runs off an 18650 or a pair of CR123A's. If you're only going to be using it occasionally the latter would probably be fine; for regular use a decent 18650 and smart charger can be had for a tenner (avoid cheap ones though.) And if you can wait for delivery from the far east (2-5 weeks normally) it can be had at a lot less than UK sellers currently have it at.http://flashlight.nitecore.com/product/hc30
ukaskew said:
I'm sure this has come up before but any suggestions for a decent but not excessively expensive running head torch? Signing up for a night race in Bristol in February but don't currently have the kit. There aren't too many events where I can make use of it so ideally don't want to spend more than £30-50.
I like my Led Lenser H7.2. Four AA batts and a variable brighness. Some complain the pool of light is inconsistent and has halos, but I find it fine - I can run down pretty technical trails in the dark just fine. It will rinse the batteries fast on full blast - it reckons five hours, but I'd say a bit less, so to avoid paying millions for AA's I got rechargables and a fast charger. This way runs don't turn into a battery economy test, constantly cutting brightness to make sure I have enough juice for tomorrow's run too.Smitters said:
I like my Led Lenser H7.2. Four AA batts and a variable brighness. Some complain the pool of light is inconsistent and has halos, but I find it fine - I can run down pretty technical trails in the dark just fine. It will rinse the batteries fast on full blast - it reckons five hours, but I'd say a bit less, so to avoid paying millions for AA's I got rechargables and a fast charger. This way runs don't turn into a battery economy test, constantly cutting brightness to make sure I have enough juice for tomorrow's run too.
That was my old trail HT. Couldn't get on with it, found that if I wanted to look well ahead briefly (say to pick out a turning, or just to make sure that those ARE fox eyes) I couldn't see what was at my feet. A bit fiddly to zoom with mitts on too. I also had a slightly scary moment getting briefly lost in the mountains at 3am (not running) and pledged on my return to get something better.Relegated to found the house duties now. It's still not a bad HT, it just didn't suit my needs.
Big fan of the LED Lenser kit.
I've had this for awhile, rechargeable, lasts a good 3 hours on full brightness
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ledlenser-SEO7R-BL-Rechar...
Spare batteries are around £11 and the unit can be had for around £40.
5 year warranty too.
I've had this for awhile, rechargeable, lasts a good 3 hours on full brightness
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ledlenser-SEO7R-BL-Rechar...
Spare batteries are around £11 and the unit can be had for around £40.
5 year warranty too.
MattS5 said:
Big fan of the LED Lenser kit.
I've had this for awhile, rechargeable, lasts a good 3 hours on full brightness
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ledlenser-SEO7R-BL-Rechar...
Spare batteries are around £11 and the unit can be had for around £40.
5 year warranty too.
Thanks, that looks ideal as I don't fancy a big battery pack at the bag.I've had this for awhile, rechargeable, lasts a good 3 hours on full brightness
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ledlenser-SEO7R-BL-Rechar...
Spare batteries are around £11 and the unit can be had for around £40.
5 year warranty too.
onedsla said:
But you tend to get out what you put in, subject to talent (there's always somebody more talented).
If you are training for a marathon, focus should be on fat metabolism at target pace. Assuming your target is realistic, this is best achieved by running at target pace, supplemented by general aerobic running without getting too tired (pace not too important). Also, as training is about providing a new stimulus to evoke a particular improvement in your body, doing the same thing week in week out is not usually a great approach. Also remember that improvement doesn't come from a single run or session; it's the cumulative affect of all activities over the last few years, months, weeks.
These are my final few weeks for my last marathon buildup. It was not an ideal buildup - would have preferred an extra long run or two and a better half marathon race - but it does show the principal of specificity, 'mixing up' the long run, and progression towards target. There are only 2 track sessions listed (and one was after a 10M warmup as a 'different' long run). If I was training for a 5000m (as I was up until the week before this), training looks quite different.
M: 10 with 1.5M tempo and 5.4 easy
T: 7 easy and 8.8 track (2km 6:54, 2km 6:12, 1km 3:04, 800 2:24, 3 x 400 70, 68, 71) Felt tired!
W: 5.75 and 7.5
T: 10.1 with some 'easy tempo' offroad 5:53 (153), 5:48 (161), 5:49 (165), 5:45 (167), 5:49 (169), 5:49 (171), 5:45 (173)
F: 9.9 and 4.2
S: 10.25
S: 22.2 slow (big step up in distance, but never felt too tired - picked up a little towards the end (6:30s) to show willing)
M: 7.4 and 3.8
T: 10.5 with middle 10km in 34:37 (165bpm average)
W: 5.35
T: 4 and 9.6 with middle 5M in 27:24 (progression run)
F: 5.7
S: 4
S: 17.5 including Chippenham HM - disaster - sick at 4M and again at around 9M. Made it home but reduced to easy pace by the end - 76:28. Ouch. Not good.
M: 7.7 recovery
T: 17.2 with track session towards the end (was going well for 400s but 1200s slow and hard)
W: 6.4 / 4.3 General recovery day.
T: 9.4 with 30mins @ 5:56 pace (163bpm) avoiding tourists around Green Park (so all slight inclines, on and off road, nothing flat)
F: 10.1 with 5 @ 5:50 pace (163bpm) offroad, mostly flat around Wimbledon Common
S: 9 with '5M' Club champs XC. Turned out 4.8M. First 4.5 felt like jogging, then increased effort to pull away and win by a good 10s (achieved in last 300m). Steep in parts and pretty overgrown - logs to jump over, brambles, nettles, a water jump etc. Averaged 5:50 pace (169bpm)
S: 22.3 with fartlek - 4 busts between 1 and 1.5M in 5:20 - 6:00 pace range
M: 7.5 and 6.3
T: 10.2 inc 8.2 averaging 5:52 pace offroad (161bpm) and 3.7
W: 7.2 (7:28) and 4.4 (7:22)
T: 4.2 (7:27) and 9.2 including 7M tempo (5:32, 5:33, 5:33, 5:34, 5:33, 5:28, 5:15) 168bpm
F: 6 (7:24) and 4 (7:51)
S: 6 (7:18)
S: Southern 6 stage: 2.4 warm up, 6km leg in 19:25 (5:09) 6 down. A little tired and caught myself napping in 2nd lap - really should have been 30s faster.
M: 7.8 (6:35 - alternating 1M normal and 1M easy tempo) and 4.1 (7:45)
T: 13.04 with 10M easy tempo offroad - 5:49, 5:41, 5:49, 5:47, 5:51, 5:50, 5:57, 5:44, 5:55, 5:57. Grass section was very wet which didn't help - hard towards the end with HR ending up 170+ (though avg more like mid 160s) and 4 (8:05)
W: 6.5 (7:11) - tired
T: 7.1 (6:57) and 9.8 including 30mins tempo (5:36, 5:36, 5:33, 5:34, 5:28 + half at 5:18 pace. Pushing towards the end but HR in the 160s for most.
F: 7.28 (7:18)
S: 7 (7:07)
S: 21 inc 20M 'easy tempo' - 1:58:45 - won 'Spitfire 20' in pretty crap (windy, wet) conditions. Average HR 166, but backed off in last 3 miles as feeling a little tired (only 2 weeks before M-day, so keen not to push on tired legs - a lot of people tend to get this wrong and work far too hard in the 20M build up 'race')
M: 5.3 (7:16) - tired
T: 7.5 (6:29 - threw in 2 x 1M offroad efforts at marathon pace) - wanted a bit more speed but still tired.
W: 7.7 (6:57) - feeling better
T: 12.3 with 8M MP with slightly faster section in middle 5:37, 5:34, 5:39, 5:34, 5:30, 5:31, 5:33, 5:34. 169bpm. Hard, but feeling good.
F: 4.9 (7:24)
S: 6.2 (7:39) including 3 x under 10s hill sprints
S: 12.9 (6:56) - felt great
M: 6 (6:58)
T: 7.2 (6:48)
W: 5.6 with 2 ~6min reps trying and failing to run as slowly as MP (5:29 and 5:23 pace)
T: 4 (6:43)
F: 2.1 (7:31) - travel to Amsterdam. Try to register - get lucky and find our contact, but he seems a little laid back 'come back tomorrow at 5pm' so not quite sure. Eat with the Kenyans / Ethiopians - lots of competition!
S: 2 (7:20) - cold! Go to the technical briefing at 5pm. Number still not there, but I'm not alone. Get sorted out with an unassigned number - 99 - about 14 hours before the race start. Phew. Meet a couple of Dutch runners looking for similar time - and learn of 3:30/km pace maker set to go until 30km.
S: very early - 0.9M slow. Trying to wake up the body for 9:45 (8:45 UK time) race start. Have a light breakfast and coffee. Head on bus to stadium and have a room to relax in for an hour or so. 0.5M light warm up with 35mins to go. Out to the start at 9:30. A light warm up with some MP stides at the start. 26.2M race in 2:28:57.
Awesome time and training plan. I did my first marathon last year (2:38:08) and want to go quicker at London this year but can't understand how you fit all that training in, and more how your body copes with it! Do you have rest days? Do you cross-train? If you are training for a marathon, focus should be on fat metabolism at target pace. Assuming your target is realistic, this is best achieved by running at target pace, supplemented by general aerobic running without getting too tired (pace not too important). Also, as training is about providing a new stimulus to evoke a particular improvement in your body, doing the same thing week in week out is not usually a great approach. Also remember that improvement doesn't come from a single run or session; it's the cumulative affect of all activities over the last few years, months, weeks.
These are my final few weeks for my last marathon buildup. It was not an ideal buildup - would have preferred an extra long run or two and a better half marathon race - but it does show the principal of specificity, 'mixing up' the long run, and progression towards target. There are only 2 track sessions listed (and one was after a 10M warmup as a 'different' long run). If I was training for a 5000m (as I was up until the week before this), training looks quite different.
M: 10 with 1.5M tempo and 5.4 easy
T: 7 easy and 8.8 track (2km 6:54, 2km 6:12, 1km 3:04, 800 2:24, 3 x 400 70, 68, 71) Felt tired!
W: 5.75 and 7.5
T: 10.1 with some 'easy tempo' offroad 5:53 (153), 5:48 (161), 5:49 (165), 5:45 (167), 5:49 (169), 5:49 (171), 5:45 (173)
F: 9.9 and 4.2
S: 10.25
S: 22.2 slow (big step up in distance, but never felt too tired - picked up a little towards the end (6:30s) to show willing)
M: 7.4 and 3.8
T: 10.5 with middle 10km in 34:37 (165bpm average)
W: 5.35
T: 4 and 9.6 with middle 5M in 27:24 (progression run)
F: 5.7
S: 4
S: 17.5 including Chippenham HM - disaster - sick at 4M and again at around 9M. Made it home but reduced to easy pace by the end - 76:28. Ouch. Not good.
M: 7.7 recovery
T: 17.2 with track session towards the end (was going well for 400s but 1200s slow and hard)
W: 6.4 / 4.3 General recovery day.
T: 9.4 with 30mins @ 5:56 pace (163bpm) avoiding tourists around Green Park (so all slight inclines, on and off road, nothing flat)
F: 10.1 with 5 @ 5:50 pace (163bpm) offroad, mostly flat around Wimbledon Common
S: 9 with '5M' Club champs XC. Turned out 4.8M. First 4.5 felt like jogging, then increased effort to pull away and win by a good 10s (achieved in last 300m). Steep in parts and pretty overgrown - logs to jump over, brambles, nettles, a water jump etc. Averaged 5:50 pace (169bpm)
S: 22.3 with fartlek - 4 busts between 1 and 1.5M in 5:20 - 6:00 pace range
M: 7.5 and 6.3
T: 10.2 inc 8.2 averaging 5:52 pace offroad (161bpm) and 3.7
W: 7.2 (7:28) and 4.4 (7:22)
T: 4.2 (7:27) and 9.2 including 7M tempo (5:32, 5:33, 5:33, 5:34, 5:33, 5:28, 5:15) 168bpm
F: 6 (7:24) and 4 (7:51)
S: 6 (7:18)
S: Southern 6 stage: 2.4 warm up, 6km leg in 19:25 (5:09) 6 down. A little tired and caught myself napping in 2nd lap - really should have been 30s faster.
M: 7.8 (6:35 - alternating 1M normal and 1M easy tempo) and 4.1 (7:45)
T: 13.04 with 10M easy tempo offroad - 5:49, 5:41, 5:49, 5:47, 5:51, 5:50, 5:57, 5:44, 5:55, 5:57. Grass section was very wet which didn't help - hard towards the end with HR ending up 170+ (though avg more like mid 160s) and 4 (8:05)
W: 6.5 (7:11) - tired
T: 7.1 (6:57) and 9.8 including 30mins tempo (5:36, 5:36, 5:33, 5:34, 5:28 + half at 5:18 pace. Pushing towards the end but HR in the 160s for most.
F: 7.28 (7:18)
S: 7 (7:07)
S: 21 inc 20M 'easy tempo' - 1:58:45 - won 'Spitfire 20' in pretty crap (windy, wet) conditions. Average HR 166, but backed off in last 3 miles as feeling a little tired (only 2 weeks before M-day, so keen not to push on tired legs - a lot of people tend to get this wrong and work far too hard in the 20M build up 'race')
M: 5.3 (7:16) - tired
T: 7.5 (6:29 - threw in 2 x 1M offroad efforts at marathon pace) - wanted a bit more speed but still tired.
W: 7.7 (6:57) - feeling better
T: 12.3 with 8M MP with slightly faster section in middle 5:37, 5:34, 5:39, 5:34, 5:30, 5:31, 5:33, 5:34. 169bpm. Hard, but feeling good.
F: 4.9 (7:24)
S: 6.2 (7:39) including 3 x under 10s hill sprints
S: 12.9 (6:56) - felt great
M: 6 (6:58)
T: 7.2 (6:48)
W: 5.6 with 2 ~6min reps trying and failing to run as slowly as MP (5:29 and 5:23 pace)
T: 4 (6:43)
F: 2.1 (7:31) - travel to Amsterdam. Try to register - get lucky and find our contact, but he seems a little laid back 'come back tomorrow at 5pm' so not quite sure. Eat with the Kenyans / Ethiopians - lots of competition!
S: 2 (7:20) - cold! Go to the technical briefing at 5pm. Number still not there, but I'm not alone. Get sorted out with an unassigned number - 99 - about 14 hours before the race start. Phew. Meet a couple of Dutch runners looking for similar time - and learn of 3:30/km pace maker set to go until 30km.
S: very early - 0.9M slow. Trying to wake up the body for 9:45 (8:45 UK time) race start. Have a light breakfast and coffee. Head on bus to stadium and have a room to relax in for an hour or so. 0.5M light warm up with 35mins to go. Out to the start at 9:30. A light warm up with some MP stides at the start. 26.2M race in 2:28:57.
At the moment I'm doing 4 runs a week: easy, track session, tempo and long at the weekend. 2 sets of leg strengthening work per week and cross-train in the gym on either the elliptical or bike.
What did you do to spice up your long runs? Last year I kept all mine at a steady pace (generally 6:15/mile) and I'm keen to do something different this time round as mixing it up a bit will hopefully prevent the niggles creeping in.
39:44 at a local 10k on Sunday. It was hard work but not staggering around feeling ill at the finish hard which was good really. 1m6s off the time from last year on the same course and a new 10k PB.
Am on the 4th run through of a 16 week marathon plan (minus the very long Sunday runs) which I have been tweaking along the way and each time I go through another iteration my times are quicker.
A flatter 10k is coming up in March. That was a 39:58 last year so will be interesting to see what happens this time round.
Am on the 4th run through of a 16 week marathon plan (minus the very long Sunday runs) which I have been tweaking along the way and each time I go through another iteration my times are quicker.
A flatter 10k is coming up in March. That was a 39:58 last year so will be interesting to see what happens this time round.
KTF said:
39:44 at a local 10k on Sunday. It was hard work but not staggering around feeling ill at the finish hard which was good really. 1m6s off the time from last year on the same course and a new 10k PB.
Am on the 4th run through of a 16 week marathon plan (minus the very long Sunday runs) which I have been tweaking along the way and each time I go through another iteration my times are quicker.
A flatter 10k is coming up in March. That was a 39:58 last year so will be interesting to see what happens this time round.
Good stuff! Aiming for sub 3:30 in the marathon?Am on the 4th run through of a 16 week marathon plan (minus the very long Sunday runs) which I have been tweaking along the way and each time I go through another iteration my times are quicker.
A flatter 10k is coming up in March. That was a 39:58 last year so will be interesting to see what happens this time round.
Jacobyte said:
Good stuff! Aiming for sub 3:30 in the marathon?
That is the target as the sub 3:30 marathon still escapes me (3:33:24 from 2015 is the closest). I have the sub 20 5k, sub 40 10k, sub 90 half all ticked off so the sub 3:30 is back on the radar after a year of reasonably structured training.My fitness is certainly much better than last year and this is reflected in my times so its all heading in the right direction
ukaskew said:
MattS5 said:
Big fan of the LED Lenser kit.
I've had this for awhile, rechargeable, lasts a good 3 hours on full brightness
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ledlenser-SEO7R-BL-Rechar...
Spare batteries are around £11 and the unit can be had for around £40.
5 year warranty too.
Thanks, that looks ideal as I don't fancy a big battery pack at the bag.I've had this for awhile, rechargeable, lasts a good 3 hours on full brightness
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ledlenser-SEO7R-BL-Rechar...
Spare batteries are around £11 and the unit can be had for around £40.
5 year warranty too.
Smitters said:
I would say in caution that having a lamp at the front and a battery at the back balances things, whereas everything up front can result in a bit of wobble as you run. Everyone's head is different though, but the reason I have the lap I have is because my old Petzl had batts behind the bulb and as the trail got rougher and steeper, if bounced up and down slightly on my head, especially if I was wearing a hat. It was worst at exactly the times you didn't want it happening, steep technical descents!
With a good strap, fitted well and low overall weight it's really not an issue. All 85g of my HT sits on the front...no problem. I'm not sure that weight at the back would actually balance it out - you'd end up with both see-sawing in theory - and it makes me wonder if the difference you noticed was more down to a strap that fitted your head better?tenohfive said:
With a good strap, fitted well and low overall weight it's really not an issue.
Agree. The Petzl was none of these - perfect for mooching round a campfire. Not so good for running. It was down to the ratcheted mechanism to direct the beam - as you pointed the torch more downwards it pivoted from the bottom of the unit, so basically moved the weight away from your head and the strap. Its not impossible to resolve, obviously, but some torches will do this on some heads.Ah, I see. I hadn't really considered it before but it's probably the reason that the Zebralight style works so well for my trail running - it's a cylinder that rotates through a circular rubber mount; no mechanical parts to go wrong, you can get it pointed exactly where you want it and it stays equally close to your head throughout.
And a new one has just turned up - I'm in the process of making b
dising a Skilhunt HT with a shorter tube, different (18350 li-ion) battery and lighter strap for a fairly niche role - a just in case/mandatory kitlist headtorch that's still powerful enough to be useful if I need it. It should put out up to 900 lumens but weigh about 50g all in. Probably overkill to save 40-50g or so, but it'll get used.
And a new one has just turned up - I'm in the process of making b
dising a Skilhunt HT with a shorter tube, different (18350 li-ion) battery and lighter strap for a fairly niche role - a just in case/mandatory kitlist headtorch that's still powerful enough to be useful if I need it. It should put out up to 900 lumens but weigh about 50g all in. Probably overkill to save 40-50g or so, but it'll get used.Thanks guys, bit undecided but will see if my local running shop has any to try.
They've just announced a Bath Skyline Night Race (which is mental, the course was scary in the day on Sunday!) 16 hours before the final Sunday morning Skyline of the series. I was feeling brave and signed up, so I'm doing both 10ks
They've just announced a Bath Skyline Night Race (which is mental, the course was scary in the day on Sunday!) 16 hours before the final Sunday morning Skyline of the series. I was feeling brave and signed up, so I'm doing both 10ks
Our clubs choice of head torch is this: https://www.alpkit.com/products/gamma
Have not tried it myself as for endure 24 I just ran with a hand torch. If you spend hundreds+ then you can get ones that turn night into day but it's how often you will use it...
If it's a clear night with a full moon then you can see where you are going anyway.
Have not tried it myself as for endure 24 I just ran with a hand torch. If you spend hundreds+ then you can get ones that turn night into day but it's how often you will use it...
If it's a clear night with a full moon then you can see where you are going anyway.
KTF said:
Jacobyte said:
Good stuff! Aiming for sub 3:30 in the marathon?
That is the target as the sub 3:30 marathon still escapes me (3:33:24 from 2015 is the closest). I have the sub 20 5k, sub 40 10k, sub 90 half all ticked off so the sub 3:30 is back on the radar after a year of reasonably structured training.My fitness is certainly much better than last year and this is reflected in my times so its all heading in the right direction
but annoyingly I just struggle with 10k, and my best is 40m 52s..
I just don't seem to enjoy the distance at all.
Good luck with your sub 3h 30m though, sounds like you should be in good form for it.
KTF said:
Our clubs choice of head torch is this: https://www.alpkit.com/products/gamma
Have not tried it myself as for endure 24 I just ran with a hand torch. If you spend hundreds+ then you can get ones that turn night into day but it's how often you will use it...
If it's a clear night with a full moon then you can see where you are going anyway.
Never tried one, but heard good things about them.Have not tried it myself as for endure 24 I just ran with a hand torch. If you spend hundreds+ then you can get ones that turn night into day but it's how often you will use it...
If it's a clear night with a full moon then you can see where you are going anyway.
One tip I saw from an ultra runner called Gary Robbins is to use your light on full beam and take spare batteries, don't try and eke out the battery life to save a tiny amount of weight. The dimmer light will cause eye strain and induce/increase tiredness. Perhaps not a big issue over a short distance, but if anyone is doing a run through the night, or of several hours in the dark, it could be worth noting.
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