The Running Thread Vol 2
Discussion
Urgh.
Today's hangover recovery plan:
Drink water until it starts coming out again. Check.
Couple of coffees to raise perceived feeling of anxiety to fever pitch. Check.
Half marathon distance slow run with 250m of hills. That's next.
Hopefully I'll be cured afterwards. I'm really not feeling the love at the moment but it's a nice day out there, so start spinning the legs over and get some good tunes on... We'll see.
Today's hangover recovery plan:
Drink water until it starts coming out again. Check.
Couple of coffees to raise perceived feeling of anxiety to fever pitch. Check.
Half marathon distance slow run with 250m of hills. That's next.
Hopefully I'll be cured afterwards. I'm really not feeling the love at the moment but it's a nice day out there, so start spinning the legs over and get some good tunes on... We'll see.
It worked!
And a new fastest half, just running by feel rather than heart rate.
Why can you run faster hungover? Is it because everything hurts already?
And a new fastest half, just running by feel rather than heart rate.
Why can you run faster hungover? Is it because everything hurts already?
cwis said:
Urgh.
Today's hangover recovery plan:
Drink water until it starts coming out again. Check.
Couple of coffees to raise perceived feeling of anxiety to fever pitch. Check.
Half marathon distance slow run with 250m of hills. That's next.
Hopefully I'll be cured afterwards. I'm really not feeling the love at the moment but it's a nice day out there, so start spinning the legs over and get some good tunes on... We'll see.
Today's hangover recovery plan:
Drink water until it starts coming out again. Check.
Couple of coffees to raise perceived feeling of anxiety to fever pitch. Check.
Half marathon distance slow run with 250m of hills. That's next.
Hopefully I'll be cured afterwards. I'm really not feeling the love at the moment but it's a nice day out there, so start spinning the legs over and get some good tunes on... We'll see.
Gargamel said:
Portsmouth half marathon for me today, cold but at least dry. Lovely run, surprising scenic and a PB for me. (nice and flat)
1:56 - felt good at the end, have eaten a lot of pizza since.
Good times
Well done! Getting under a major time milestone like 2 hours is rather satisfying!1:56 - felt good at the end, have eaten a lot of pizza since.
Good times
Cybertronian said:
Well done! Getting under a major time milestone like 2 hours is rather satisfying!
Strange isn't it, the difference between a 2:01 and a 1:59 is nothing really, but it just feels so much better...! I didn't enter to try and run a time, I only entered to have a goal to get me out the door through the winter. Has worked though, have lost about 10 pounds in weight since November.
Thanks for all the replies, it looks like fartlek is the way forward and just getting used to running a bit faster so I gave it a go on Saturday in a completely unstructured way –
Not sure how well that will come out, but hopefully you can see me running a bit faster for a few hundred m, then slowly for a bit, then about 1200m a bit faster (looks like about 10-16 mins mark on the graph), a few sprint/walk then a bit faster at the end.
I did find my slow recovery stages gradually sped up so I think I need some more discipline to keep slow!
I can grit my teeth and push through for a bit, but I get distracted easily and when my mind wanders I settle back down to cruising pace annoyingly.
Not sure how well that will come out, but hopefully you can see me running a bit faster for a few hundred m, then slowly for a bit, then about 1200m a bit faster (looks like about 10-16 mins mark on the graph), a few sprint/walk then a bit faster at the end.
I did find my slow recovery stages gradually sped up so I think I need some more discipline to keep slow!
MC Bodge said:
You might need to shorten your stride, increase your step rate and run "lighter on your feet". Running with other people could help too.
Are you someone who can grit their teeth, push through discomfort and get stuck in? At your age and weight I'd expect that you are physically capable of running faster.
Garmin tells me my average stride length last Wednesday was 1.22m and 161 strides per minute which is in the orange zone so I guess I need to spin my legs a bit quicker -Are you someone who can grit their teeth, push through discomfort and get stuck in? At your age and weight I'd expect that you are physically capable of running faster.
I can grit my teeth and push through for a bit, but I get distracted easily and when my mind wanders I settle back down to cruising pace annoyingly.
Gargamel said:
Portsmouth half marathon for me today, cold but at least dry. Lovely run, surprising scenic and a PB for me. (nice and flat)
1:56 - felt good at the end, have eaten a lot of pizza since.
Good times
Also ran that race, 1.49. I wanted 1.45 but was running with a mate who was keeping/slowing me slightly until the turn around before the first shoreline mud run. If I'd have gone at my own pace from the start 1.45 would have been easy enough.1:56 - felt good at the end, have eaten a lot of pizza since.
Good times
Was a fun course, single track mud toward 27 was another choke hold though unfortunately
Still 100 acres half April 3rd, 1100m of climbing and all off road. Should be fun, no chance of a sub 2hrs there though I don't think
FunkyNige said:
Thanks for all the replies, it looks like fartlek is the way forward and just getting used to running a bit faster so I gave it a go on Saturday in a completely unstructured way –
Not sure how well that will come out, but hopefully you can see me running a bit faster for a few hundred m, then slowly for a bit, then about 1200m a bit faster (looks like about 10-16 mins mark on the graph), a few sprint/walk then a bit faster at the end.
I'm not that experienced on the subject so take this with a hefty pinch of salt - but when I do fartlek I rarely do more than 100m at any given pace (unless I'm shagged and need a longer recovery.) My rotation is sprint, fast run, recovery jog. And mix up depending on how I'm feeling. That last part I like, I don't use it as an excuse to cheat but do try to keep the energy levels up so that the sprints and fast runs are at a decent clip.Not sure how well that will come out, but hopefully you can see me running a bit faster for a few hundred m, then slowly for a bit, then about 1200m a bit faster (looks like about 10-16 mins mark on the graph), a few sprint/walk then a bit faster at the end.
No idea if that's the right way but my training has been more endurance and ascent based, so chucking in a fortnightly fartlek session is just to break things up and keep some sort of balance - so I've not studied it in detail. So it may be that the several hundred metre approach is better, but it keeps my interest doing things shorter and running between lampposts/street signs etc.
I think the whole translation of fartlek as "speed-play" means there are no rules. I would think the more you do it the more you can judge the pace you can sustain for the distance you pick.
For what it's worth, I've done it with a partner or in a group (stop sniggering at the back there), where everyone takes a turn in naming the finishing post and it's flat out to get there, then back to recovery jog pace and also solo (again, with the sniggering), where I'm just spotting landmarks and upping the effort. The solo fartlek always seems to end up more structured. I use HR as a signal, so effort, recovery, wait for HR to drop below xxx during recovery jog, pick target, go for it.
On a separate topic, I've been thinking about recovery runs and how easy they should be. The longer I've been training the more I've come to realise that I run my slow runs too fast, which seems to impact on my faster runs, making them too slow. I've followed a few pro athletes on Strava and their recovery runs are very similar in pace to mine... making me think - just how slow can I go? I suspect that the time-crunch most runners that have a full time job means we assume by running our LSD and recovery runs just that little bit quicker we'll get more out of our training, whereas perhaps the opposite is true.
I'm going to try making two of my slow runs even slower for a few months, and really go for it in the third, and see what happens. I've a couple of halfs coming up so I'll see how I feel.
For what it's worth, I've done it with a partner or in a group (stop sniggering at the back there), where everyone takes a turn in naming the finishing post and it's flat out to get there, then back to recovery jog pace and also solo (again, with the sniggering), where I'm just spotting landmarks and upping the effort. The solo fartlek always seems to end up more structured. I use HR as a signal, so effort, recovery, wait for HR to drop below xxx during recovery jog, pick target, go for it.
On a separate topic, I've been thinking about recovery runs and how easy they should be. The longer I've been training the more I've come to realise that I run my slow runs too fast, which seems to impact on my faster runs, making them too slow. I've followed a few pro athletes on Strava and their recovery runs are very similar in pace to mine... making me think - just how slow can I go? I suspect that the time-crunch most runners that have a full time job means we assume by running our LSD and recovery runs just that little bit quicker we'll get more out of our training, whereas perhaps the opposite is true.
I'm going to try making two of my slow runs even slower for a few months, and really go for it in the third, and see what happens. I've a couple of halfs coming up so I'll see how I feel.
Smitters said:
On a separate topic, I've been thinking about recovery runs and how easy they should be. The longer I've been training the more I've come to realise that I run my slow runs too fast, which seems to impact on my faster runs, making them too slow. I've followed a few pro athletes on Strava and their recovery runs are very similar in pace to mine... making me think - just how slow can I go? I suspect that the time-crunch most runners that have a full time job means we assume by running our LSD and recovery runs just that little bit quicker we'll get more out of our training, whereas perhaps the opposite is true.
I'm going to try making two of my slow runs even slower for a few months, and really go for it in the third, and see what happens. I've a couple of halfs coming up so I'll see how I feel.
On the Marathon Talk podcast last week the presenter who's an OK club athlete said he went for a recovery ride with Ali Brownlee and found it really easy so it must have been incredibly easy for Ali, he asked why it was so slow and he said you can't train hard every day so some days he went very easy - it was 4 hours though! I'm going to try making two of my slow runs even slower for a few months, and really go for it in the third, and see what happens. I've a couple of halfs coming up so I'll see how I feel.
john2443 said:
On the Marathon Talk podcast last week the presenter who's an OK club athlete said he went for a recovery ride with Ali Brownlee and found it really easy so it must have been incredibly easy for Ali, he asked why it was so slow and he said you can't train hard every day so some days he went very easy - it was 4 hours though!
That's really interesting. I suspect what it means is that for anyone whose fast running is around the 8m/mile mark should be doing recovery walks, or low impact cross training like cycling or swimming. Then it comes down to the now vs the future. Do you feel better now by running instead of "just" walking, or do you accept that there are future gains to be had by walking now and that running may be impeding your progress? I suspect that is quite a hard decision for anyone with even the slightest ego about their performance, myself included. I can't see a club athlete doing walking laps of of the outside of the track while the sub 35min 10kers do actual running...My coach advises that there is no such thing as too slow for recovery runs. He does include some strideouts at the end of the regeneration runs though. My regen pace is about 30-50% slower than my 10k race pace.
He's also not a fan of the Long Slow Distance run, unless you want to become a long, slow distance runner. All my long runs are at moderate pace usually with some sections at a faster pace too.
He's also not a fan of the Long Slow Distance run, unless you want to become a long, slow distance runner. All my long runs are at moderate pace usually with some sections at a faster pace too.
ewenm said:
My coach advises that there is no such thing as too slow for recovery runs. He does include some strideouts at the end of the regeneration runs though. My regen pace is about 30-50% slower than my 10k race pace.
He's also not a fan of the Long Slow Distance run, unless you want to become a long, slow distance runner. All my long runs are at moderate pace usually with some sections at a faster pace too.
Think you are in a different space to most of us. He's also not a fan of the Long Slow Distance run, unless you want to become a long, slow distance runner. All my long runs are at moderate pace usually with some sections at a faster pace too.
I run about 8:45 mm as my "normal" pace - it has taken my quite a while to get to that level. I don't presently do any speed work at all - and that is something I am looking at starting.
Agree though if your running Long and slow, that that is what you will become. However for those of us still building an aerobic base it is a pretty important thing.
I count walking the dog as recovery...I am also going back to swimming once a week.
Interesting topic we have here!
My "normal" pace which I cover most of my long runs and medium-long runs at is anywhere between 8:30 and 7:30 per mile. I feel comfortable and relaxed at this pace and will sometimes include short stretches at a faster pace.
My recovery runs are anywhere between 10:30 and 9:30 per mile, sometimes even slower if I'm in need of a good rest.
A friend of mine who normally runs everything at around 7:30 to 7:45 per mile one day asked why I ran so slowly during my recovery runs and couldn't understand the concept. His firm belief was that slow recovery runs were only of value to high mileage runners and that anybody below 30 miles a week should be able to run all of their weekly runs at moderate-to-fast pace.
I argued that whether you're a high mileage runner or a low mileage runner, the body only knows what it knows, and not what Fred down the road is doing. If you only ever run 15 miles a week, the body is only accustomed to running 15 miles a week to an extent, and a percentage of that still needs to be at easy, recovery pace, which may mean walking or even complete rest for some.
My "normal" pace which I cover most of my long runs and medium-long runs at is anywhere between 8:30 and 7:30 per mile. I feel comfortable and relaxed at this pace and will sometimes include short stretches at a faster pace.
My recovery runs are anywhere between 10:30 and 9:30 per mile, sometimes even slower if I'm in need of a good rest.
A friend of mine who normally runs everything at around 7:30 to 7:45 per mile one day asked why I ran so slowly during my recovery runs and couldn't understand the concept. His firm belief was that slow recovery runs were only of value to high mileage runners and that anybody below 30 miles a week should be able to run all of their weekly runs at moderate-to-fast pace.
I argued that whether you're a high mileage runner or a low mileage runner, the body only knows what it knows, and not what Fred down the road is doing. If you only ever run 15 miles a week, the body is only accustomed to running 15 miles a week to an extent, and a percentage of that still needs to be at easy, recovery pace, which may mean walking or even complete rest for some.
After a while off due to pure laziness I did my first longish run of the year (only my 3rd overall in 2016 
). I set off trying do do a half but only managed 16.5km before my knees started to hurt. The few kgs I have put on since the end of last year makes a huge differnece!
I need to up the kms a lot in the next couple of weeks as I have a half in a month, and one in May with a target of 1.35 before the end of the year.
Legs hurt but it is good to be running again.
). I set off trying do do a half but only managed 16.5km before my knees started to hurt. The few kgs I have put on since the end of last year makes a huge differnece!I need to up the kms a lot in the next couple of weeks as I have a half in a month, and one in May with a target of 1.35 before the end of the year.
Legs hurt but it is good to be running again.
Gargamel said:
Portsmouth half marathon for me today, cold but at least dry. Lovely run, surprising scenic and a PB for me. (nice and flat)
1:56 - felt good at the end, have eaten a lot of pizza since.
Good times
How did you find the muddy beach?1:56 - felt good at the end, have eaten a lot of pizza since.
Good times
I also did the Portsmouth Coastal Half, straight off the back of a couch to half marathon course.
I really enjoyed the event the conditions were great, it was my first race over 10km.
I managed a 2:12, which I was pleased with.
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