The Running Thread Vol 2
Discussion
I finished the Edinburgh marathon with a time of 4:16 which i'm chuffed at. I was running at 4 hour pace up until mile 21 when my knee gave way meaning I had to run/walk the last 5 miles. It shows that with a bit more training I am certainly capable of going sub 4.
I'm suffering today though as the sun came out a couple of hours earlier than I was expecting which meant I didn't have a hat or suncream so have quite bad suncream with blistering (getting some funny looks walking around town!). I can also barely put any weight on my right foot,I have pinpointed the pain as being on the outside of my foot just below and slightly in front of the ankle joint. Any ideas what this could be? If it still hurts in a few days when i'm home i'll go the doctors but would be good to see if there's anything I can do in the mean time.
I'm suffering today though as the sun came out a couple of hours earlier than I was expecting which meant I didn't have a hat or suncream so have quite bad suncream with blistering (getting some funny looks walking around town!). I can also barely put any weight on my right foot,I have pinpointed the pain as being on the outside of my foot just below and slightly in front of the ankle joint. Any ideas what this could be? If it still hurts in a few days when i'm home i'll go the doctors but would be good to see if there's anything I can do in the mean time.
Edited by fiatpower on Monday 30th May 21:17
andy_s said:
Just back in from the Cape Wrath Ultra, 8 days of running in the Scottish highlands covering 400kms with 11.2km ascent. Most of this is over technical trail/x-country/peat hag/shattered boulder but also some very runnable sections...if you still had the legs!
95 started and 59 managed the whole course, which includes two 40+ mile days and two 38 mile days. It was a great privilege to watch some world class and highly respected runners (double Spine winner Paloncy et al) go past me every day!
Organisation was brilliant (OUREA Events) as ever and safety team included legendary characters such as Joe Faulkner, so no concerns on that front plus the benefit of GPS tracking everyone.
The weather was unbelievable, sunny hot days with startling clarity to help the smaller off-trail navigation sections but also to admire the upper highlands at their most spectacular; absolutely awesome scenery every day, we really felt spoiled.
I managed 37th, as my strategy was to hunker down for the first 3 days and then assess and open up after that; not a bad plan as every day brought more DNFs due to bio-mechanical problems, my partner included. A few elite runners also cocked up a bit on some navigation, earning penalties or complete DNFs, but they picked up as participants to continue the course at least, which showed great spirit. My nav (map & compass) was spot on, touch wood, and I didn't touch the GPS throughout, which was satisfying.
A few lessons learned though which I will carry forward to next years challenges, but other than smelling like something a dog would roll in, I'm back remarkably unscathed - not even a blister - which was good as I borrowed someone else's shoes half way round - maybe it was the cheeky half a Guinness that helped...
Last day...
Top work! Sounds like one hell of an experience.95 started and 59 managed the whole course, which includes two 40+ mile days and two 38 mile days. It was a great privilege to watch some world class and highly respected runners (double Spine winner Paloncy et al) go past me every day!
Organisation was brilliant (OUREA Events) as ever and safety team included legendary characters such as Joe Faulkner, so no concerns on that front plus the benefit of GPS tracking everyone.
The weather was unbelievable, sunny hot days with startling clarity to help the smaller off-trail navigation sections but also to admire the upper highlands at their most spectacular; absolutely awesome scenery every day, we really felt spoiled.
I managed 37th, as my strategy was to hunker down for the first 3 days and then assess and open up after that; not a bad plan as every day brought more DNFs due to bio-mechanical problems, my partner included. A few elite runners also cocked up a bit on some navigation, earning penalties or complete DNFs, but they picked up as participants to continue the course at least, which showed great spirit. My nav (map & compass) was spot on, touch wood, and I didn't touch the GPS throughout, which was satisfying.
A few lessons learned though which I will carry forward to next years challenges, but other than smelling like something a dog would roll in, I'm back remarkably unscathed - not even a blister - which was good as I borrowed someone else's shoes half way round - maybe it was the cheeky half a Guinness that helped...
Last day...
Jacobyte said:
In all honesty, going sub-40 will be a close one. My most recent just-under-race-pace 5k was 19:45, with 2 more weeks of training to go. I think it'll need a following wind, but whatever happens, I'm now faster than I've ever been, so I can't moan.
The London 10000 was yesterday - was it possible to improve from 44 minutes to sub-40 with 11 weeks (450Km) of training?Conditions: cool, overcast, slight breeze: ideal.
Course: flatter than expected: ideal.
Feeling in the legs: loose and strong: ideal.
Start: I couldn't get anywhere near the front of my starting group, so had to spend the first 3Km fighting past people, accelerating, dodging, etc, just to maintain a pace of 4:00 per Km. But the traffic finally eased and I could run more smoothly, hitting the 5K gantry at 19:53. This felt good and I was in a comfortable place physically and mentally.
Then it all went a bit wrong.
I couldn't see any of the Km markers for speed reference (except the 5K one), so I relied on my pace by GPS. It had me averaging 3:59, so I knew if I kept that pace for the second half I'd make 10K in about 40 minutes, or just under with a fast finish. I know you shouldn't trust GPS, so I ensured I was at least under 4:00 per Km to allow for some error. On Kilometers 6-7 towards Holborn and then down to Aldwych the legs started getting heavy, and people started passing me, so I upped the pace a bit more. I wasn't fully into the red but I was beginning to need to tough it out. I checked the pace as we went down the Strand and into Whitehall - it was showing 3:57... we might just do this! Rounding Parliament Square into the final Km I got really bogged down but dug in for a final effort, emptying the taps for the last 100m sprint to the line.
As it turns out, the GPS was MASSIVELY out, so when I crossed the finish line with the GPS showing 3:58 average, it also showed that I'd done 10.25 Km. I scrolled to the stopwatch and my time was 40:27. That's a huge PB, but a tad disappointing as I *might* have been able to sustain a slightly higher pace in the 2nd half, had I used the proper Km markers, but then again maybe I was hanging on close to the limit anyway. Either way, I really oughtn't grumble.
TL;DR: 11 weeks training is not quite long enough to go from 44 to sub-40 in a 10k. Oh, and never trust GPS.
Congrats on the PB! Clearly, you're in sub-40 10k territory so enter a couple more 10ks throughout the summer and nail that target. I find I'm really only in 10k shape by July/August as it takes a couple of races for my body to remember the drawn out sustained intensity required to produce a good 10k performance.
A few tips for the next race regarding GPS. As you've found out, GPS is not infallible but there are things you can do to mitigate it tracking badly. Did you fire up your GPS and then almost immediately start running, or did you give it time to settle down? Newer Garmins and similar pre-cache GPS satellite data for faster lock-on, but I find it's still best to let it settle down for a couple of minutes before running. At best, consumer GPS reportedly has a best case accuracy of + or - 3m. Overall GPS accuracy can be made even worse due to atmospheric conditions, such as overcast skies and nearby tall buildings, which there's plenty of on the race route.
You said you were having to dodge and weave through the early crowds before settling into your stride. The race will have been measured using the shortest line on the route, so getting close to the tangents of corners etc is necessary, especially as you're so close to the wire of a sub-40 10k and running just a second or two faster per km to hit target. Apparently, running in lane 2 on the track versus lane 1 can add up to 7m per 400m lap to give you an idea of quickly running an inefficient line can take its toll on a set distance.
A few tips for the next race regarding GPS. As you've found out, GPS is not infallible but there are things you can do to mitigate it tracking badly. Did you fire up your GPS and then almost immediately start running, or did you give it time to settle down? Newer Garmins and similar pre-cache GPS satellite data for faster lock-on, but I find it's still best to let it settle down for a couple of minutes before running. At best, consumer GPS reportedly has a best case accuracy of + or - 3m. Overall GPS accuracy can be made even worse due to atmospheric conditions, such as overcast skies and nearby tall buildings, which there's plenty of on the race route.
You said you were having to dodge and weave through the early crowds before settling into your stride. The race will have been measured using the shortest line on the route, so getting close to the tangents of corners etc is necessary, especially as you're so close to the wire of a sub-40 10k and running just a second or two faster per km to hit target. Apparently, running in lane 2 on the track versus lane 1 can add up to 7m per 400m lap to give you an idea of quickly running an inefficient line can take its toll on a set distance.
Did park run on Saturday in a PB of 31.03
Then went out and did just short of 9k on Sunday with one of my rugby mates and have now joined their little running group - was a really good run and didn't stop for a walk once. Never run with a group before so it was a nice change
Joining them again tonight and have just signed up for a nice local 10 miler next month
Then went out and did just short of 9k on Sunday with one of my rugby mates and have now joined their little running group - was a really good run and didn't stop for a walk once. Never run with a group before so it was a nice change
Joining them again tonight and have just signed up for a nice local 10 miler next month
Edited by Pieman68 on Tuesday 31st May 11:09
Cybertronian said:
Congrats on the PB! Clearly, you're in sub-40 10k territory so enter a couple more 10ks throughout the summer and nail that target. I find I'm really only in 10k shape by July/August as it takes a couple of races for my body to remember the drawn out sustained intensity required to produce a good 10k performance.
A few tips for the next race regarding GPS. As you've found out, GPS is not infallible but there are things you can do to mitigate it tracking badly. Did you fire up your GPS and then almost immediately start running, or did you give it time to settle down? Newer Garmins and similar pre-cache GPS satellite data for faster lock-on, but I find it's still best to let it settle down for a couple of minutes before running. At best, consumer GPS reportedly has a best case accuracy of + or - 3m. Overall GPS accuracy can be made even worse due to atmospheric conditions, such as overcast skies and nearby tall buildings, which there's plenty of on the race route.
You said you were having to dodge and weave through the early crowds before settling into your stride. The race will have been measured using the shortest line on the route, so getting close to the tangents of corners etc is necessary, especially as you're so close to the wire of a sub-40 10k and running just a second or two faster per km to hit target. Apparently, running in lane 2 on the track versus lane 1 can add up to 7m per 400m lap to give you an idea of quickly running an inefficient line can take its toll on a set distance.
Thanks, I'll do lots more cycling with only 2 runs a week for a while, then as you say, focus on another 10K event. A few tips for the next race regarding GPS. As you've found out, GPS is not infallible but there are things you can do to mitigate it tracking badly. Did you fire up your GPS and then almost immediately start running, or did you give it time to settle down? Newer Garmins and similar pre-cache GPS satellite data for faster lock-on, but I find it's still best to let it settle down for a couple of minutes before running. At best, consumer GPS reportedly has a best case accuracy of + or - 3m. Overall GPS accuracy can be made even worse due to atmospheric conditions, such as overcast skies and nearby tall buildings, which there's plenty of on the race route.
You said you were having to dodge and weave through the early crowds before settling into your stride. The race will have been measured using the shortest line on the route, so getting close to the tangents of corners etc is necessary, especially as you're so close to the wire of a sub-40 10k and running just a second or two faster per km to hit target. Apparently, running in lane 2 on the track versus lane 1 can add up to 7m per 400m lap to give you an idea of quickly running an inefficient line can take its toll on a set distance.
I fully agree on the points about using a GPS (Garmin in this case) - I gave it over 5 minutes to get a clear signal for that very reason. In fact, looking at the trace afterwards, the first 5k was pretty accurate, but it was thrown by the tall buildings on the way back from the City - it thinks I headed North West for a good 7 minutes, when I was actually heading Due West, so when it "sped up" to bring itself back on track, that's where it fooled me into a false sense of security showing 3:58 instead of the true 4:05 (or more) at that point.
Also agreed on cornering - I always take the shortest straight line between corners; any weaving/dodging was only 1 or 2 metres at a time, it was more the accelerating after being boxed-in multiple times that affected my rhythm. It didn't matter too much, as the 5k split was on target, but it might have used up some energy that could have been useful later on.
We live to fight another day.
SHutchinson said:
Did my last (I think) long training run before The Wall on Saturday. 32 miles at a reasonable pace, managed to enjoy the day out too so the signs are looking good.
I ran it in 2013 and really enjoyed it, we'll except for the hill just after halfway! Any last minute questions let me know and I'll try and answer.
markh1973 said:
Not strictly running (except for some of the ultras) but does anyone use a GPS navigation device?
Never been able to justify the cost, Viewranger on the smartphone (particularly a waterproof one) works perfectly well for me. Worth paying the extra to have OS maps on there - they aren't silly money if you shop around online/eBay etc for the memory cards with the areas you're interested in (I got OS Landranger for all UK National Parks for a tenner.)markh1973 said:
Not strictly running (except for some of the ultras) but does anyone use a GPS navigation device?
When we were in the Dolomites 4 weeks ago we had uploaded the route onto one of the group's watches. This proved very useful when the paths and trails were covered in snow, so the map and compass lost effectiveness. It was a bit slow to update and rather sensitive to arm angle, but tat's probably a "feature" of the watch. I wouldn't want to rely on a GPS device as sole navigation aid - always have a backup map and compass.UpTheIron said:
SHutchinson said:
Did my last (I think) long training run before The Wall on Saturday. 32 miles at a reasonable pace, managed to enjoy the day out too so the signs are looking good.
I ran it in 2013 and really enjoyed it, we'll except for the hill just after halfway! Any last minute questions let me know and I'll try and answer.
If I think of anything I'll give you a shout, cheers.
SHutchinson said:
UpTheIron said:
SHutchinson said:
Did my last (I think) long training run before The Wall on Saturday. 32 miles at a reasonable pace, managed to enjoy the day out too so the signs are looking good.
I ran it in 2013 and really enjoyed it, we'll except for the hill just after halfway! Any last minute questions let me know and I'll try and answer.
If I think of anything I'll give you a shout, cheers.
2014 for me, just over 19 hours, cracking event.
How's everybodys week going training wise. Did a PB on park run on Saturday followed by success on a 9k on Sunday as I did it without stopping for a walk
Repeated the same on Tuesday, and then again last night and went 2 minutes faster
I'm not setting the world alight but am delighted with the progress
Next step - 10k without stopping and keep building to the 10 miler that I have entered next month. Still carrying plenty of timber but going to aim for a 2 hour time for that
Repeated the same on Tuesday, and then again last night and went 2 minutes faster
I'm not setting the world alight but am delighted with the progress
Next step - 10k without stopping and keep building to the 10 miler that I have entered next month. Still carrying plenty of timber but going to aim for a 2 hour time for that
InertialTooth45 said:
Replace walk with scramble on your hands and feet and you'll be closer to the truth. It was the stairs coming out of the campsite at about 57 miles that got me. Took me about 20 minutes to convince myself not to quit at that point. Once you get past there it's the home stretch though. (12 mile home stretch)!
2014 for me, just over 19 hours, cracking event.
You're right there! Sausage roll definitely wouldn't be an option :-)2014 for me, just over 19 hours, cracking event.
I did it the year before. Watched a few people in front of me take the long route, zig-zagging up the hill. Myself and a couple of others just want straight up - hands and feet and it was the quicker of the two options but took me a good couple of miles to get by heart rate down again. Finished just the wrong side of 11 hours... sub 11 was probably on with 10 miles to go but my mind was telling me otherwise and slowed up massively after the last aid station.
Almost booked it again this year but I haven't got the mileage in my legs at the moment (which is a worry as I have a 100 booked next month!!!)
Pieman68 said:
How's everybodys week going training wise. Did a PB on park run on Saturday followed by success on a 9k on Sunday as I did it without stopping for a walk
Repeated the same on Tuesday, and then again last night and went 2 minutes faster
I'm not setting the world alight but am delighted with the progress
Next step - 10k without stopping and keep building to the 10 miler that I have entered next month. Still carrying plenty of timber but going to aim for a 2 hour time for that
Did a PB of 24.30 at parkrun on Saturday. It's my fifth one and I'm still taking chunks of time off with each run. Faded a bit at the end so I need to work on stamina. Did another slow 5k on Sunday, about 7k on Monday and then 8k on Wednesday and tweeted a calf muscle so haven't run since. Hoping to be OK for tomorrow although I can still feel it a bit Repeated the same on Tuesday, and then again last night and went 2 minutes faster
I'm not setting the world alight but am delighted with the progress
Next step - 10k without stopping and keep building to the 10 miler that I have entered next month. Still carrying plenty of timber but going to aim for a 2 hour time for that
Pieman68 said:
How's everybodys week going training wise. Did a PB on park run on Saturday followed by success on a 9k on Sunday as I did it without stopping for a walk
Repeated the same on Tuesday, and then again last night and went 2 minutes faster
I'm not setting the world alight but am delighted with the progress
Next step - 10k without stopping and keep building to the 10 miler that I have entered next month. Still carrying plenty of timber but going to aim for a 2 hour time for that
My parkrun PB is 26:30 set last April. Due to lack of training I was struggling to stay inside 32 minutes over the winter. I'm working abroad for a bit so I started running the 4km back to my hotel after work. 6 runs in 2 weeks and I've dropped my average speed from 5:45/km to 5:23/km. Who knew that the best way to get quicker at running was to go running? Repeated the same on Tuesday, and then again last night and went 2 minutes faster
I'm not setting the world alight but am delighted with the progress
Next step - 10k without stopping and keep building to the 10 miler that I have entered next month. Still carrying plenty of timber but going to aim for a 2 hour time for that
Hopeful that I should be able to set a new Parkrun PB or two over the summer if I keep this up, but I guess I'm going to need to start doing some longer runs too.Anyone doing Endure 24 next weekend? My club has got 2 teams in (I'm in the slow one), the Mrs is soloing it, plus there's at least another 1 or possibly 2 teams from our usual parkrun crowd. Hoping for dry but cool weather again this year.
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