The Golf Thread - 2016!

[Challo]

HaplessBoyLard said:

Challo said:

What's the best way for newbies to pick up new clubs. I currently have a set of MacGregor Irons, and Woods which I bought off a friend a few years back and while they are ok, some of the irons have seen better days, the woods are the same. Putter and wedges are randoms makes.

Been playing for a few years but this year quit football so wanting to get properly into golf.

Can't afford a new set, so been looking on ebay and golf bidder and happy to build a set over time but not sure the best approach. Irons first? Or driver first?

Also looking on eBay/Golf Bidder loads of options but I have no idea how to tell what's a good brand, type and whether I'm getting a good deal.

Any advice on the best approach??

If you want a driver, I've got a ping G25 I can sell. It's a very forgiving club. I bought it from Rosscow on here, but have changed to a different driver now that suits me a bit better.

For a beginner it's ideal. Stiff flex shaft, but honestly flex doesn't make all that much difference, and for a stiff flex it's not actually that stiff. It's the weight that makes the difference in the feel.

They start at around £120 on golfbidder. I'd let it go for a good bit less than that.

Edited by HaplessBoyLard on Saturday 20th August 22:23

Thanks. I'm off on hols soon so will give you a shout once I am back about the driver.

[SpeckledJim]

Challo said:

HaplessBoyLard said:

Challo said:

What's the best way for newbies to pick up new clubs. I currently have a set of MacGregor Irons, and Woods which I bought off a friend a few years back and while they are ok, some of the irons have seen better days, the woods are the same. Putter and wedges are randoms makes.

Been playing for a few years but this year quit football so wanting to get properly into golf.

Can't afford a new set, so been looking on ebay and golf bidder and happy to build a set over time but not sure the best approach. Irons first? Or driver first?

Also looking on eBay/Golf Bidder loads of options but I have no idea how to tell what's a good brand, type and whether I'm getting a good deal.

Any advice on the best approach??

If you want a driver, I've got a ping G25 I can sell. It's a very forgiving club. I bought it from Rosscow on here, but have changed to a different driver now that suits me a bit better.

For a beginner it's ideal. Stiff flex shaft, but honestly flex doesn't make all that much difference, and for a stiff flex it's not actually that stiff. It's the weight that makes the difference in the feel.

They start at around £120 on golfbidder. I'd let it go for a good bit less than that.

Edited by HaplessBoyLard on Saturday 20th August 22:23

Thanks. I'm off on hols soon so will give you a shout once I am back about the driver.

I don't wish to rain on HBL's sale, but with all due respect you don't need a driver. Almost nobody does.

The driver is by far the biggest contributor to newbies losing patience with golf and quitting. You see so many players who could be making reasonable scores (usually get down in 3 or 4 from 150 yards) but because it has taken them 4 to get that close, they shoot 130 and hate the game.

I wish I could walk up after their 7th junk tee shot in the first 9 holes and snap their driver over my knee. Then see what they score on the back 9.

It's like grand-dad using a supercharged Ariel Atom for a 15 mile urban commute. Rein in the ego, put a mid-iron down the middle, play to 24, and enjoy it.

A driver in the hands of a newbie tends to either go 15 yards (and then you have to play the next with your knob out), or it goes 75 yards to the right into the deep cabbage and pisses you off.

This is not often discussed, but it also really pisses your partners off. Not that they will tell you. They have to pretend they are content to look for your ball for the 4th hole in a row, and also have to pretend that you are being very unlucky, instead of very dense and selfish.

Get it short and down the middle - everyone will enjoy the game a lot more.

(I don't mean 'you' specifically. I mean everyone who plays over, say, 12, who uses a driver )

Edited by SpeckledJim on Monday 22 August 09:30

[Dan_1981]

We have a 4 club challenge coming up in a few weeks.


I know selection is likely player & course dependent but what 4 clubs would you choose?!

I'm thinking.....

Hybrid
6 Iron
either 9 iron or PW
Putter.

Although i'm considering dropping the putter & using the hybrid to put with?

[Rosscow]

We play 5 club comps, and I'd normally choose hybrid, 6 iron, 9 iron, 60 wedge and putter.

4 club is tough - but I suppose it's course dependent.

We use our putters a lot, so I'd always choose it. And you need a decent wedge to get out of our pot bunkers!

[SpeckledJim]

Dan_1981 said:

We have a 4 club challenge coming up in a few weeks.


I know selection is likely player & course dependent but what 4 clubs would you choose?!

I'm thinking.....

Hybrid
6 Iron
either 9 iron or PW
Putter.

Although i'm considering dropping the putter & using the hybrid to put with?

Great game, and people are usually surprised how well they score, with low expectations.

For me:

5-wood
Pitching Wedge
60-degree wedge
Putter.

My thought is that you can use a hybrid (or 5-wood in my case) to play a dozen different types of shot to get you inside, say, 120 yards. Then have a couple of short irons to help make sure you're playing a proper shot for your 'scoring opportunity'.

(definitely don't drop the putter - most important club of all)

[Challo]

SpeckledJim said:

Challo said:

HaplessBoyLard said:

Challo said:

What's the best way for newbies to pick up new clubs. I currently have a set of MacGregor Irons, and Woods which I bought off a friend a few years back and while they are ok, some of the irons have seen better days, the woods are the same. Putter and wedges are randoms makes.

Been playing for a few years but this year quit football so wanting to get properly into golf.

Can't afford a new set, so been looking on ebay and golf bidder and happy to build a set over time but not sure the best approach. Irons first? Or driver first?

Also looking on eBay/Golf Bidder loads of options but I have no idea how to tell what's a good brand, type and whether I'm getting a good deal.

Any advice on the best approach??

If you want a driver, I've got a ping G25 I can sell. It's a very forgiving club. I bought it from Rosscow on here, but have changed to a different driver now that suits me a bit better.

For a beginner it's ideal. Stiff flex shaft, but honestly flex doesn't make all that much difference, and for a stiff flex it's not actually that stiff. It's the weight that makes the difference in the feel.

They start at around £120 on golfbidder. I'd let it go for a good bit less than that.

Edited by HaplessBoyLard on Saturday 20th August 22:23

Thanks. I'm off on hols soon so will give you a shout once I am back about the driver.

I don't wish to rain on HBL's sale, but with all due respect you don't need a driver. Almost nobody does.

The driver is by far the biggest contributor to newbies losing patience with golf and quitting. You see so many players who could be making reasonable scores (usually get down in 3 or 4 from 150 yards) but because it has taken them 4 to get that close, they shoot 130 and hate the game.

I wish I could walk up after their 7th junk tee shot in the first 9 holes and snap their driver over my knee. Then see what they score on the back 9.

It's like grand-dad using a supercharged Ariel Atom for a 15 mile urban commute. Rein in the ego, put a mid-iron down the middle, play to 24, and enjoy it.

A driver in the hands of a newbie tends to either go 15 yards (and then you have to play the next with your knob out), or it goes 75 yards to the right into the deep cabbage and pisses you off.

This is not often discussed, but it also really pisses your partners off. Not that they will tell you. They have to pretend they are content to look for your ball for the 4th hole in a row, and also have to pretend that you are being very unlucky, instead of very dense and selfish.

Get it short and down the middle - everyone will enjoy the game a lot more.

(I don't mean 'you' specifically. I mean everyone who plays over, say, 12, who uses a driver )

Edited by SpeckledJim on Monday 22 August 09:30

Thanks for the advice Jim. To be honest I played 9 holes on Saturday and tee'd off with a 5 iron and that was the highest club. Still hit a few bad shots but only lost 1 ball which I think my playing partners preferred.

[Alpinestars]

SpeckledJim said:

I don't wish to rain on HBL's sale, but with all due respect you don't need a driver. Almost nobody does.

The driver is by far the biggest contributor to newbies losing patience with golf and quitting. You see so many players who could be making reasonable scores (usually get down in 3 or 4 from 150 yards) but because it has taken them 4 to get that close, they shoot 130 and hate the game.

I wish I could walk up after their 7th junk tee shot in the first 9 holes and snap their driver over my knee. Then see what they score on the back 9.

It's like grand-dad using a supercharged Ariel Atom for a 15 mile urban commute. Rein in the ego, put a mid-iron down the middle, play to 24, and enjoy it.

A driver in the hands of a newbie tends to either go 15 yards (and then you have to play the next with your knob out), or it goes 75 yards to the right into the deep cabbage and pisses you off.

This is not often discussed, but it also really pisses your partners off. Not that they will tell you. They have to pretend they are content to look for your ball for the 4th hole in a row, and also have to pretend that you are being very unlucky, instead of very dense and selfish.

Get it short and down the middle - everyone will enjoy the game a lot more.

(I don't mean 'you' specifically. I mean everyone who plays over, say, 12, who uses a driver )

Edited by SpeckledJim on Monday 22 August 09:30

I agree with the sentiment, but I think you've got your yardstick completely wrong. Anyone who plays to a genuine 18 should be able to hit a driver. At that handicap it's about using discretion as to which holes you hit it on depending upon the conditions, layout and your own natural shot.

Start off with a high lofted driver (c12 degrees) and loft down as you improve.

[SpeckledJim]

Challo said:

Thanks for the advice Jim. To be honest I played 9 holes on Saturday and tee'd off with a 5 iron and that was the highest club. Still hit a few bad shots but only lost 1 ball which I think my playing partners preferred.

I endorse this approach completely! It's a social game, and we're all only there for fun.

Constant cabbage-trudging =/= fun.

Made worse when the person responsible is refusing to see what is happening, and learn from it. Desperate to show you the 300-yard laser they managed a month ago on the range, they plough-on with their driver, getting more and more frustrated, absorbing more and more searching time, and

And not only is it tiresome, it's hugely expensive in terms of shots.

A category of player will poke fun at a player who is 'shy' to use his driver. That category of player can be summarised as a 'dhead'. Ignore them - playing someone else's game (from watching the Masters) is what causes this obsession with drivers in the first place.

How often does a player who has one shot left for his par and 300 yards remaining begin that grim little story with his driver? Almost always.

Apologies if I'm preaching an approach you already embrace, but if you have a reliable short-iron game, are you playing a long game to get you in the scoring zone for your wedge, or is your long game always about getting as close to the green as you can.

A great bridge of understanding to cross is that it is much better golf to play a reliable 4 iron off the tee to leave 100 yards in than it is to play a very unreliable driver to try to leave 50 yards in.

This is for 2 reasons.

• Because the driver likely doesn't get you the 50 yards in, it probably gets you in trouble.
• But also because your average shots taken from 50 yards is very similar to your average shots taken from 100 yards. The risk doesn't result in an appreciable benefit when it goes well, and definitely results in a heavy price when it doesn't.

(again, not 'you' specifically. Anyone, really! )

[Rosscow]

And I would add Jim, quite often it's nicer to have a full wedge shot or 9 iron to the green, than one of those in between 50-90 yard shots.
Normally resulting in a poor shot because it's not something you practice very often.

[SpeckledJim]

Alpinestars said:

SpeckledJim said:

I don't wish to rain on HBL's sale, but with all due respect you don't need a driver. Almost nobody does.

The driver is by far the biggest contributor to newbies losing patience with golf and quitting. You see so many players who could be making reasonable scores (usually get down in 3 or 4 from 150 yards) but because it has taken them 4 to get that close, they shoot 130 and hate the game.

I wish I could walk up after their 7th junk tee shot in the first 9 holes and snap their driver over my knee. Then see what they score on the back 9.

It's like grand-dad using a supercharged Ariel Atom for a 15 mile urban commute. Rein in the ego, put a mid-iron down the middle, play to 24, and enjoy it.

A driver in the hands of a newbie tends to either go 15 yards (and then you have to play the next with your knob out), or it goes 75 yards to the right into the deep cabbage and pisses you off.

This is not often discussed, but it also really pisses your partners off. Not that they will tell you. They have to pretend they are content to look for your ball for the 4th hole in a row, and also have to pretend that you are being very unlucky, instead of very dense and selfish.

Get it short and down the middle - everyone will enjoy the game a lot more.

(I don't mean 'you' specifically. I mean everyone who plays over, say, 12, who uses a driver )

Edited by SpeckledJim on Monday 22 August 09:30

I agree with the sentiment, but I think you've got your yardstick completely wrong. Anyone who plays to a genuine 18 should be able to hit a driver. At that handicap it's about using discretion as to which holes you hit it on depending upon the conditions, layout and your own natural shot.

Start off with a high lofted driver (c12 degrees) and loft down as you improve.

We could certainly debate the reasonable 'cut-off' in handicap terms.

I'd suggest the average 18 handicapper is making, say, 24 mistakes a round, and maybe 6 ameliorating 'great shots' that lead to the 18 handicap.

Every golfer is different, but at that standard, I would say, on average, that their driver is contributing much more to the 24 mistakes than it is to the 6 'great shots' that power pars and birdies.

For most golfers, at the end of a round of golf it's hard to look back to a hole and say "if my drive had been 25 yards longer, I'd have saved a shot there." but you can usually find one (or ten) where you could say "that drive was a disaster. There was no way back from there".

Thing is, most mistakes around the course cost you 1 shot. But lots of mistakes with the driver off the tee cost 2 shots.

[Rosscow]

SpeckledJim said:

We could certainly debate the reasonable 'cut-off' in handicap terms.

I'd suggest the average 18 handicapper is making, say, 24 mistakes a round, and maybe 6 ameliorating 'great shots' that lead to the 18 handicap.

Every golfer is different, but at that standard, I would say, on average, that their driver is contributing much more to the 24 mistakes than it is to the 6 'great shots' that power pars and birdies.

For most golfers, at the end of a round of golf it's hard to look back to a hole and say "if my drive had been 25 yards longer, I'd have saved a shot there." but you can usually find one (or ten) where you could say "that drive was a disaster. There was no way back from there".

Thing is, most mistakes around the course cost you 1 shot. But lots of mistakes with the driver off the tee cost 2 shots.

I would agree with Jim.

Although you might argue that someone is actually pretty consistent off the tee, but have a terrible short game and can't putt for toffee.

[SpeckledJim]

Rosscow said:

I would agree with Jim.

Although you might argue that someone is actually pretty consistent off the tee, but have a terrible short game and can't putt for toffee.

Yes, there are of course golfers who get on well with their driver off a handicap in the 20's. They should carry on, secure in the knowledge of how special and rare they are!

Their playing partners should fire up their hybrids and catch them on the green!

[Alpinestars]

SpeckledJim said:

Yes, there are of course golfers who get on well with their driver off a handicap in the 20's. They should carry on, secure in the knowledge of how special and rare they are!

Their playing partners should fire up their hybrids and catch them on the green!

If their playing partners play in the 20s, I'd suggest a hybrid from 230 yards ain't going to be on the green, and there's as much chance of hitting a poor shot as the other player hitting a poor driver.

It's about knowing your game and course management. Not hard and fast rules like don't play a driver. I'd go as far as to say that the most important thing is to play the game you've brought to the course - we all have off days with the driver, certain irons etc. recognise that every game is not going to be in the 70s/80s/90s, and manage the weaknesses and play to strengths.

[DuncanM]

Whilst I agree with Jim on this subject, the problem isn't quite so simple.

If someone is 20+ HC, and poor off the tee with his driver, then he will usually still be quite poor with any wood/hybrid.

Add to that the fact that no one is willing to hit much less off the tee, as they just can't see the logic in it (there is logic in it at their level).

FWIW, I have used a 1 iron for almost 20 years now. It is my go to club when the woods are off key. This club has saved me many shots/golf balls and hours spent looking for double crossed drives, smashed into the trees.

[Rosscow]

Alpinestars said:

SpeckledJim said:

Yes, there are of course golfers who get on well with their driver off a handicap in the 20's. They should carry on, secure in the knowledge of how special and rare they are!

Their playing partners should fire up their hybrids and catch them on the green!

If their playing partners play in the 20s, I'd suggest a hybrid from 230 yards ain't going to be on the green, and there's as much chance of hitting a poor shot as the other player hitting a poor driver.

It's about knowing your game and course management. Not hard and fast rules like don't play a driver. I'd go as far as to say that the most important thing is to play the game you've brought to the course - we all have off days with the driver, certain irons etc. recognise that every game is not going to be in the 70s/80s/90s, and manage the weaknesses and play to strengths.

The point Jim was making was to take a hybrid off the tee, get it in play and beat them because of your superior short game.

[SpeckledJim]

Alpinestars said:

SpeckledJim said:

Yes, there are of course golfers who get on well with their driver off a handicap in the 20's. They should carry on, secure in the knowledge of how special and rare they are!

Their playing partners should fire up their hybrids and catch them on the green!

If their playing partners play in the 20s, I'd suggest a hybrid from 230 yards ain't going to be on the green, and there's as much chance of hitting a poor shot as the other player hitting a poor driver.

If it's a 230 yard par three and the only way to reach the green is by a driver, then they should be laying up and playing for 4. But golfers off 20 generally don't play off the back tees. I can't think of a single situation in my golfing experience where a driver was the required choice for a high-handicapper, and very few where it was the sensible choice.

Alpinestars said:

It's about knowing your game and course management. Not hard and fast rules like don't play a driver. I'd go as far as to say that the most important thing is to play the game you've brought to the course - we all have off days with the driver, certain irons etc. recognise that every game is not going to be in the 70s/80s/90s, and manage the weaknesses and play to strengths.

Agree with all that. It is crucial to play your own game.

My point is that most high-handicappers haven't noticed that their own game doesn't include the ability to use a driver.

I wince when we walk up to a tee and the other three all pull out driver before they've even stopped walking. Without looking at the hole, the card, the wind, the state of the match, etc. They haven't looked at or considered anything.

• Over 200 yards = I'm going to smack my driver and we can all deal with the horrid consequences.

It's bad golf, and yet it's SO easily remedied. It all happens between the ears, and in our own time. Frustrating.

Then you get to matchplay and the frustration multiplies. The opposition has the honour and stick their 2 drivers in the pond. A net bogey probably wins us the hole. But my man fancies driving the green for birdie or eagle. Nope. In the pond. All the pressure and responsibility passes to one player. Stupid. Bad golf.

Edited by SpeckledJim on Monday 22 August 11:19

[SpeckledJim]

DuncanM said:

Whilst I agree with Jim on this subject, the problem isn't quite so simple.

If someone is 20+ HC, and poor off the tee with his driver, then he will usually still be quite poor with any wood/hybrid.

Add to that the fact that no one is willing to hit much less off the tee, as they just can't see the logic in it (there is logic in it at their level).

That's the challenge. To find the way to encapsulate or illustrate or demonstrate a non-intuitive truth.

Slow-in fast-out doesn't always seem the fastest way to race a car, but to get any good, a driver has to learn it at some point.

That leap in understanding that speed gained on the following straight is worth more than arriving later at the previous apex is similar to the revelation (when it occurs) that the long clubs are simply relatively boring methods of transportation to get you to the points on the golf course where the scoring happens.

Putting more emphasis on a long drive than a trusty 8 iron is thinking about the game the wrong way.

14 steady 5-woods down the middle takes 3500 yards off the golf course. Then there's only 3000 yards left, and you've got 58 shots left to play to scratch.

Would you fancy your chances on a 3,000 yard par 58? 'course you bloody would!

What a gift those 14 steady starts are, compared to the duffs, skies, cabbage and splash of the alternative.

[DuncanM]

SpeckledJim said:

That's the challenge. To find the way to encapsulate or illustrate or demonstrate a non-intuitive truth.

Slow-in fast-out doesn't always seem the fastest way to race a car, but to get any good, a driver has to learn it at some point.

That leap in understanding that speed gained on the following straight is worth more than arriving later at the previous apex is similar to the revelation (when it occurs) that the long clubs are simply relatively boring methods of transportation to get you to the points on the golf course where the scoring happens.

Putting more emphasis on a long drive than a trusty 8 iron is thinking about the game the wrong way.

14 steady 5-woods down the middle takes 3500 yards off the golf course. Then there's only 3000 yards left, and you've got 58 shots left to play to scratch.

Would you fancy your chances on a 3,000 yard par 58? 'course you bloody would!

What a gift those 14 steady starts are, compared to the duffs, skies, cabbage and splash of the alternative.

Like I say, I'm on your side Jim (hence the 1 iron!)

However, convincing someone to hit a ~150-160 yard shot on a 350yard + hole just ain't gonna happen in our lifetime.

I played with a friend last week. First hole, he hits a lovely little draw to 50 yards from the pin, wedges on and birdies!

He is at best a 20HC.

Can you guess what happens next? He spends the rest of the round, trying to replicate that lovely shot, and would likely have shot over 100 if we'd carried on scoring properly.

The cruel truth is that his good shot is vastly better than his bad shot, and the bad shot happens more regularly than the good. This is the reality of golf.

If I hit 1 OB with the dog, it stays in the bag until I can figure what the hell went wrong. I spent a year leaving the driver in the car, so as not to be tempted!

Maybe people should have friend rules, like more than 1 OB/lost ball, and that player is not allowed to hit driver anymore in the round?

[Rosscow]

SpeckledJim said:

That's the challenge. To find the way to encapsulate or illustrate or demonstrate a non-intuitive truth.

Slow-in fast-out doesn't always seem the fastest way to race a car, but to get any good, a driver has to learn it at some point.

That leap in understanding that speed gained on the following straight is worth more than arriving later at the previous apex is similar to the revelation (when it occurs) that the long clubs are simply relatively boring methods of transportation to get you to the points on the golf course where the scoring happens.

Putting more emphasis on a long drive than a trusty 8 iron is thinking about the game the wrong way.

14 steady 5-woods down the middle takes 3500 yards off the golf course. Then there's only 3000 yards left, and you've got 58 shots left to play to scratch.

Would you fancy your chances on a 3,000 yard par 58? 'course you bloody would!

What a gift those 14 steady starts are, compared to the duffs, skies, cabbage and splash of the alternative.

Jim, you're a good golfer. Not many higher handicap players are going to hit fourteen straight 250 yard 5 woods!!

[DuncanM]

Rosscow said:

Jim, you're a good golfer. Not many higher handicap players are going to hit fourteen straight 250 yard 5 woods!!

Did he get the math wrong? 250 yard = longer than most people drive the ball!

~180-200 for a 5 wood imo.