The Golf Thread - 2016!

[SpeckledJim]

bodhi said:

Holes going to plan? What a silly idea. The real satisfaction is taking out the big dog, smashing it into some cabbage and still making par

Admittedly, that is also satisfying.

[Alpinestars]

bodhi said:

Holes going to plan? What a silly idea. The real satisfaction is taking out the big dog, smashing it into some cabbage and still making par

Only par?

[Alpinestars]

Rosscow said:

I will read these tonight and see if I can fathom out what they seem to be saying!

That would be sensible rather than shouting "rubbish". You'd be arguing against the best statistician in the game .

The principle is pretty straightforward. He measures both qualitative and quantitative elements of shots. A very simple example on how his stats work differently to the traditional stats can be illustrated as follows. Using traditional measures, the number one putter on tour has say 1.5 putts on average per hole. That would suggest he is the best putter. Now overlay some qualitative stuff, and let's say that his average putt length holing a ball was 5 feet. Doesn't sound as impressive now. What's driving his "best putting stats" is his approach, not his putting per se. And you can extend the example to say that he never uses more than a wedge into a green because he averages 320 yards off the tee. Now let's assume the analysis shows that most tour pros will be an average of 10 feet from the pin with a wedge, then what's ultimately driving his putting stats is his driving. Not his wedge or putter.

The traditional stats used in golf, greens in regulation, putts, fairways hit etc are very one dimensional. With the amount of data out there and the tech available to analyse it, people like this guy are going to change the way pros approach their game.

[Alpinestars]

SpeckledJim said:

If he's any good with his 6 iron and up, playing to 18 really isn't a problem.

If anyone is regularly losing more than one ball a round, I'd encourage them to wind-in their ambitions a little, because their shot choices aren't really in line with their shot-making abilities. A lost ball is two shots in the bin. That's two bogeys you need to improve into pars.

I like the big dog eat quote, but I think the above is wrong. You have no idea whether that golfer being more conservative on 14 holes (exclude the 3s), will result in him scoring the same as him "not being conservative" and losing one ball. A major assumption is being made that because you lose a ball, driving is having a negative impact. What if the other drives average 280 yards and result in the reason for some birdies and pars. I could be really careful and take a wedge all the way round. I suspect it might on average reduce my score if I were an 18 handicapper, but would never improve my game to get down to something good. It's all about risk and reward. Anyone who takes all the risk out of a game by only using "safe" clubs is never going to reach his/her potential. It's not like pros don't lose balls.

[Elderly]

I've been given an old Hill Billy electric trolley.
I've just tried it for the first time today and although the
battery appeared fully charged, the top speed was not as fast as
I would like.

I'd never thought about buying an electric trolley and I'm not convinced that I want one,
so I'm reluctant to buy a new battery to see if that improves things.

But what should I expect?

I've no idea how old the present battery is and how long they last, but if I decide to go down the new battery route do you have any recommendations please (NO Lithium )?

[Alpinestars]

Elderly said:

I've been given an old Hill Billy electric trolley.
I've just tried it for the first time today and although the
battery appeared fully charged, the top speed was not as fast as
I would like.

I'd never thought about buying an electric trolley and I'm not convinced that I want one,
so I'm reluctant to buy a new battery to see if that improves things.

But what should I expect?

I've no idea how old the present battery is and how long they last, but if I decide to go down the new battery route do you have any recommendations please (NO Lithium )?

This place seems pretty cheap.

http://www.batterymasters.co.uk/mobile/Catalog-Gol...

[SpeckledJim]

Alpinestars said:

Rosscow said:

I will read these tonight and see if I can fathom out what they seem to be saying!

That would be sensible rather than shouting "rubbish". You'd be arguing against the best statistician in the game .

The principle is pretty straightforward. He measures both qualitative and quantitative elements of shots. A very simple example on how his stats work differently to the traditional stats can be illustrated as follows. Using traditional measures, the number one putter on tour has say 1.5 putts on average per hole. That would suggest he is the best putter. Now overlay some qualitative stuff, and let's say that his average putt length holing a ball was 5 feet. Doesn't sound as impressive now. What's driving his "best putting stats" is his approach, not his putting per se. And you can extend the example to say that he never uses more than a wedge into a green because he averages 320 yards off the tee. Now let's assume the analysis shows that most tour pros will be an average of 10 feet from the pin with a wedge, then what's ultimately driving his putting stats is his driving. Not his wedge or putter.

The traditional stats used in golf, greens in regulation, putts, fairways hit etc are very one dimensional. With the amount of data out there and the tech available to analyse it, people like this guy are going to change the way pros approach their game.

Agree with all that, it is very difficult to measure performance in anything other that driving (as that has a fixed start point) - other aspects of the game are hard to isolate.

Mind you, even driving is difficult, as we don't know the intentions of each golfer on each drive. "As far as possible, straight down the middle" is only one possible strategy.

[SpeckledJim]

Alpinestars said:

bodhi said:

Holes going to plan? What a silly idea. The real satisfaction is taking out the big dog, smashing it into some cabbage and still making par

Only par?

Yes. Par is almost always the plan. A birdie or better requires an 'overperformance' in one or more shots that you can't reasonably plan for or expect.

Nice when it happens, of course, but not the plan.

ETA: lots of golfers are absolutely good enough to plan for, and expect, birdie. I'm not. I plan for par - and if my plan for the first half of the hole goes well, and then either my approach to the green is very good, or my first putt luckily goes in, then I'll celebrate a birdie with a silly dance, before recovering my Game Face and scowling off to the next tee.

Edited by SpeckledJim on Monday 22 August 20:44

[Alpinestars]

SpeckledJim said:

Yes. Par is almost always the plan. A birdie or better requires an 'overperformance' in one or more shots that you can't reasonably plan for or expect.

Nice when it happens, of course, but not the plan.

ETA: lots of golfers are absolutely good enough to plan for, and expect, birdie. I'm not. I plan for par - and if my plan for the first half of the hole goes well, and then either my approach to the green is very good, or my first putt luckily goes in, then I'll celebrate a birdie with a silly dance, before recovering my Game Face and scowling off to the next tee.

Edited by SpeckledJim on Monday 22 August 20:44

I was jesting.

[SpeckledJim]

Alpinestars said:

I was jesting.

You are a card.

[bodhi]

Alpinestars said:

bodhi said:

Holes going to plan? What a silly idea. The real satisfaction is taking out the big dog, smashing it into some cabbage and still making par

Only par?

You haven't seen the cabbage I can find off the tee

[HaplessBoyLard]

I shot 79 yesterday on our par 72, 6200 yd course. I hit driver 4 times, on holes where I know I can miss the fairway in a certain spot and still make par. Twice I did just that.

It's made a lot easier by the fact I can hit my 20deg hybrid 210+ and usually find the fairway, but it can definitely be done. Two of those drives could have been my hybrid and my chance of par wouldn't have been diminished.

I've got to say though, all this talk of hitting 5w in play 14 times and then a 7i 150 yds and straight is still hard to do. Most high handicappers will duff a few of those irons or hit them in the st, and slice the 5w well to the right... just not quite as far right as the dog. Consistency in ball striking, as well as course management and a semi-competent short game are all needed to start getting that handicap down towards low teens or lower.

Now... we've established that most players don't need a driver. Does anyone wanna buy one?

[swisstoni]

The most consistent golf I played tee to green was when I first started playing and only had irons (couldn't hit woods at all). I won a few society days because the others were busy blasting drives into the junk and my 3 iron was going 180 down the middle.
Years later I am now one of the driver blasters and killing my scores with 3s off the tee and worse. I just love melting the good ones past my playing partners but its not fun losing by one point when I've blobbed 4 holes.
So, I've 'invested' in a Ping G Crossover 3 iron as a fairway finder.
We'll see how that works out for me

[SpeckledJim]

swisstoni said:

The most consistent golf I played tee to green was when I first started playing and only had irons (couldn't hit woods at all). I won a few society days because the others were busy blasting drives into the junk and my 3 iron was going 180 down the middle.
Years later I am now one of the driver blasters and killing my scores with 3s off the tee and worse. I just love melting the good ones past my playing partners but its not fun losing by one point when I've blobbed 4 holes.
So, I've 'invested' in a Ping G Crossover 3 iron as a fairway finder.
We'll see how that works out for me

The drift towards driver is insidious, and the whole game and industry is oriented around it. Shops, manufacturers, endorsements, playing partners, TV coverage, stats.

Longer, longer, longer, boom, boom, boom. Do you dare take it on? Or are you a wimp?

All that takes its toll. I carry a driver, probably because of the above, because any rational analysis would bin it. I use it probably twice a round. The first time usually pays off, the second time I let my ego take over and boom a big banana into the right cabbage. Then I bogey or worse, and it stays in the bag for the rest of the round. I am stupid.

7% of my club allocation is devoted to one good start to one hole, and 1 or 2 shots thrown in the bin. None of my other clubs contribute so little, or perform anywhere near as badly.

[Alpinestars]

SpeckledJim said:

The drift towards driver is insidious, and the whole game and industry is oriented around it. Shops, manufacturers, endorsements, playing partners, TV coverage, stats.

Longer, longer, longer, boom, boom, boom. Do you dare take it on? Or are you a wimp?

All that takes its toll. I carry a driver, probably because of the above, because any rational analysis would bin it. I use it probably twice a round. The first time usually pays off, the second time I let my ego take over and boom a big banana into the right cabbage. Then I bogey or worse, and it stays in the bag for the rest of the round. I am stupid.

7% of my club allocation is devoted to one good start to one hole, and 1 or 2 shots thrown in the bin. None of my other clubs contribute so little, or perform anywhere near as badly.

You seem to have an almost pathological hatred of the thing?

Surely you can see that each player is different, and have different strengths. It's about playing to them. For me the driver is definitely my USP, for others it might not be.

[JamesNotJim]

My driver is the best club in my bag, bar the putter. If you learn how to swing a driver consistently it's a lethal weapon. At this time of year, I can hit all but 1 of our 4 par5's in 2 (I hit driver then 6 iron to a 540yrd par5 on sunday). Purely because I'm beaming the driver off the tee. But, its already been said. I'll only take the risk of hitting a driver on a hole where the risk gives reward.
People need to stop buying drivers because it goes 10yrds further then the last model (and for the love of god, stop buying drivers with 46"+ shafts). I got fitted for mine with one intention. Easy to hit and super consistent. I sacrificed yardage to ensure I can find fairways.

Edited by JamesNotJim on Tuesday 23 August 17:59

[cheddar]

JamesNotJim said:

I hit driver then 6 iron to a 540yrd par5 on sunday

Edited by JamesNotJim on Tuesday 23 August 17:59

Did you have a tornado up your arse?

[JamesNotJim]

cheddar said:

Did you have a tornado up your arse?

There was a stiff breeze helping. I had 195yrd left in after the drive. (6 iron is usually good for 180yrd on the flat with no wind).
But i was only able to give myself that chance by hitting the driver on the fairway

[bodhi]

Alpinestars said:

SpeckledJim said:

The drift towards driver is insidious, and the whole game and industry is oriented around it. Shops, manufacturers, endorsements, playing partners, TV coverage, stats.

Longer, longer, longer, boom, boom, boom. Do you dare take it on? Or are you a wimp?

All that takes its toll. I carry a driver, probably because of the above, because any rational analysis would bin it. I use it probably twice a round. The first time usually pays off, the second time I let my ego take over and boom a big banana into the right cabbage. Then I bogey or worse, and it stays in the bag for the rest of the round. I am stupid.

7% of my club allocation is devoted to one good start to one hole, and 1 or 2 shots thrown in the bin. None of my other clubs contribute so little, or perform anywhere near as badly.

100% this. The chap I normally play with takes a driver off just about every tee, except the par 3's and our 2nd/11th, and he hardly ever loses a ball, whereas I am the sort who will quite happily take an iron to play safe and then stick it in the trees - with the driver I don't think you can really make a hard and fast rule about using it or not, as everyone's game is different.
You seem to have an almost pathological hatred of the thing?

Surely you can see that each player is different, and have different strengths. It's about playing to them. For me the driver is definitely my USP, for others it might not be.

[Alpinestars]

JamesNotJim said:

There was a stiff breeze helping. I had 195yrd left in after the drive. (6 iron is usually good for 180yrd on the flat with no wind).
But i was only able to give myself that chance by hitting the driver on the fairway

That's an impressive drive.