Discussion
Joey Ramone said:
It'e the kind of comment Hansen or Wayne Smith wouldn't make. Which is instructive. I think if Woodward hadn't had his coaching credentials go up in smoke in 2005 he'd maybe be entitled to voice some of those opinions
But these days he's a pundit. And, as inelegant as it might sound, he's right. This is international rugby, not international diplomacy.I thought England were going to blow it in the first half but they got better and better throughout the second.
There was more to be excited about in the last 15mins then there ever was in The Lancaster reign.
We have some great, young talent coming through giving us huge strength in depth so we just need to up the speed now. I even felt Farrell played well and I loathe him!
Thought Itoje came on and immediately showed us just how far behind Robshaw and Haskell are. Now, if we could throw a good ball at the lineout, improve the discipline and keep improving the speed of play - could be a very exciting few years!
And Clive Woodward can say what he likes; he delivered a World Cup. Doesn't matter what happened 2yrs before or 2yrs after.
Wales is the big test, I reckon... roll on March 12th!
There was more to be excited about in the last 15mins then there ever was in The Lancaster reign.
We have some great, young talent coming through giving us huge strength in depth so we just need to up the speed now. I even felt Farrell played well and I loathe him!
Thought Itoje came on and immediately showed us just how far behind Robshaw and Haskell are. Now, if we could throw a good ball at the lineout, improve the discipline and keep improving the speed of play - could be a very exciting few years!
And Clive Woodward can say what he likes; he delivered a World Cup. Doesn't matter what happened 2yrs before or 2yrs after.
Wales is the big test, I reckon... roll on March 12th!
A strong result in the end but the first half was painful to watch with a lot of mistakes. If they play like that against Wales or France the game could easily be gone before half time. (Though the French really laboured against Italy for even more of the game).
If they can start against those teams as they finished against Italy mind....
Trouble is, how much of the second half performance was down to Italian fitness and Italian dejection at some of the howlers they made?
Good result. Ireland next. They'll be up for it. Chance to see what we can do properly before stepping up against the Welsh.
If they can start against those teams as they finished against Italy mind....
Trouble is, how much of the second half performance was down to Italian fitness and Italian dejection at some of the howlers they made?
Good result. Ireland next. They'll be up for it. Chance to see what we can do properly before stepping up against the Welsh.
Murph7355 said:
A strong result in the end but the first half was painful to watch with a lot of mistakes. If they play like that against Wales or France the game could easily be gone before half time. (Though the French really laboured against Italy for even more of the game).
If they can start against those teams as they finished against Italy mind....
Trouble is, how much of the second half performance was down to Italian fitness and Italian dejection at some of the howlers they made?
Good result. Ireland next. They'll be up for it. Chance to see what we can do properly before stepping up against the Welsh.
Ireland are in the poo Max potential of 7 points when 2 teams have 4 points already it's not ideal. If they can start against those teams as they finished against Italy mind....
Trouble is, how much of the second half performance was down to Italian fitness and Italian dejection at some of the howlers they made?
Good result. Ireland next. They'll be up for it. Chance to see what we can do properly before stepping up against the Welsh.
Still it's a must win game for them -
basherX said:
But these days he's a pundit. And, as inelegant as it might sound, he's right. This is international rugby, not international diplomacy.
Problem is, he's not even a very good pundit. His pre-match predictions are usually way off line. Some absolute howlers in the past. Wilkinson on the other hand is superb. I could listen to his analysis all day long. In fact it could just be him in the studio and that would be enough. I didn't think Maggie Alphonsi added much, very good player though she was.Also a huge fan of David Flatman. Hugely knowledgeable and a very dry wit. He is a welcome addition to the commentating ranks.
basherX said:
But these days he's a pundit. And, as inelegant as it might sound, he's right. This is international rugby, not international diplomacy.
Scotland managed to get out of their pool at the World Cup. England didn't. And I doubt the Welsh players considered the game on Saturday to be an easy win against second rate opponents. So it's not only arrogant language, it's technically incorrect. Victor Matfield was on Rugby Special (or whatever thay call it now) with Jonathan Davies and Lewis Moody...he made the point that England's lineout really lacks options, they have two jumpers with none of the starting back row being a realistic option. Makes you wonder if Itoje might get the start in the next match.
Cheib said:
Victor Matfield was on Rugby Special (or whatever thay call it now) with Jonathan Davies and Lewis Moody...he made the point that England's lineout really lacks options, they have two jumpers with none of the starting back row being a realistic option. Makes you wonder if Itoje might get the start in the next match.
I recall Haskell taking one yesterday, he's probably as heavy as a lock so while lift-able you'd expect he lacks the athleticism and experience to be a viable option. When you've only really got 2 options and George Kruis calling for a lot of ball to himself it's pretty easy for the defensive line to get a man up.I think at least one of Haskell or Robshaw need to go sharpish. I can understand Jone's reasoning with limited time to asses what he had went with more experienced options. You'd have to look at the stats but Haskell seems to have popped up more making tackles in the two games so far.
The England lineout was terrible. However, I'm sure someone on the coaching team will have noticed so it will be worked on. It wasn't as if we were out-competed. The ball was thrown away or sideways. How hard can it be to get it to a spot near you own players?
With 5 tries it would be easy to become ecstatic, but that was Italy.
I've been reading a bit online and there's much criticism of the first half performance. Lineouts aside I thought it was one played to a plan. If so, and I admit to being bemused by rugby tactics, then it was well done. Keep things quiet, don't let them through, and turn it on once we've got all their styles of play.
The taking out of a catcher in the air was a massive error. We could have been a man down for the rest of the match. Not only that, temper the speed and a big hit a fraction of a second later could have put the bloke of catching anything but a cold for the balance of the match.
England did well. Wales struggled against them and we put them to the sword, exposing their weaknesses and lack of options.
Italy was unlucky not to score. They had some great carries and good fast runs, but England were never pushed. They've got some promising newcomers.
With 5 tries it would be easy to become ecstatic, but that was Italy.
I've been reading a bit online and there's much criticism of the first half performance. Lineouts aside I thought it was one played to a plan. If so, and I admit to being bemused by rugby tactics, then it was well done. Keep things quiet, don't let them through, and turn it on once we've got all their styles of play.
The taking out of a catcher in the air was a massive error. We could have been a man down for the rest of the match. Not only that, temper the speed and a big hit a fraction of a second later could have put the bloke of catching anything but a cold for the balance of the match.
England did well. Wales struggled against them and we put them to the sword, exposing their weaknesses and lack of options.
Italy was unlucky not to score. They had some great carries and good fast runs, but England were never pushed. They've got some promising newcomers.
I'm struggling to figure out what you guys were expecting England to do? Long gone are the days in world rugby where you blast a team out in the first half (or it's a very rare thing). Even the likes of Georgia, Fiji, Somoa etc will stick around for 50 minutes and make it very uncomfortable.
Italy need some improvements fast, though. Castrogiovanni admitted that perhaps there should be promotion/relegation as it was unfair to deny the likes of Georgia their opportunity. But whatever the case in that respect, things need to move sharpish before it becomes a genuine question of credibility
The problem is that Italy can, if all the stars are aligned and it's a full moon, put out a decent team. But that requires absolutely everyone to be fit. To start without the likes of Morici, Masi and Favaro, and then lose 4 more to injury in the first half hour of a game is a terminal problem - you just can't offer a credible performance in those circumstances. The bench was full of blokes even I haven't heard of but then again I'm not an avid watcher of Italian semi professional rugby. As Woodward said, you get to a point where the answer is not to build up Italian domestic rugby but to get as many of them as you can playing in the Premiership or Top 14. It's not great news for the Pro-12 but something different has to be done otherwise young Italian kids are going to turn away from the game.
The problem is that Italy can, if all the stars are aligned and it's a full moon, put out a decent team. But that requires absolutely everyone to be fit. To start without the likes of Morici, Masi and Favaro, and then lose 4 more to injury in the first half hour of a game is a terminal problem - you just can't offer a credible performance in those circumstances. The bench was full of blokes even I haven't heard of but then again I'm not an avid watcher of Italian semi professional rugby. As Woodward said, you get to a point where the answer is not to build up Italian domestic rugby but to get as many of them as you can playing in the Premiership or Top 14. It's not great news for the Pro-12 but something different has to be done otherwise young Italian kids are going to turn away from the game.
Yeah decent performance from England, that. Italy put up a decent fight for an hour but then got blasted away.
I'd have England slight faves for the tournament after the first two rounds. The Irish are nowhere, Wales look sub-par and have to go to HQ, the French.... well, they are French.
I'd have England slight faves for the tournament after the first two rounds. The Irish are nowhere, Wales look sub-par and have to go to HQ, the French.... well, they are French.
hornetrider said:
Yeah decent performance from England, that. Italy put up a decent fight for an hour but then got blasted away.
I'd have England slight faves for the tournament after the first two rounds. The Irish are nowhere, Wales look sub-par and have to go to HQ, the French.... well, they are French.
The French seem to have one game in them in every tournament when they play out of their skins. And they haven't played it yet in this tournament, which worries me.I'd have England slight faves for the tournament after the first two rounds. The Irish are nowhere, Wales look sub-par and have to go to HQ, the French.... well, they are French.
NRS said:
Derek Smith said:
England did well. Wales struggled against them and we put them to the sword, exposing their weaknesses and lack of options.
Do you mean France?But perhaps not.
Joey Ramone said:
Italy need some improvements fast, though. Castrogiovanni admitted that perhaps there should be promotion/relegation as it was unfair to deny the likes of Georgia their opportunity. But whatever the case in that respect, things need to move sharpish before it becomes a genuine question of credibility
The problem is that Italy can, if all the stars are aligned and it's a full moon, put out a decent team. But that requires absolutely everyone to be fit. To start without the likes of Morici, Masi and Favaro, and then lose 4 more to injury in the first half hour of a game is a terminal problem - you just can't offer a credible performance in those circumstances. The bench was full of blokes even I haven't heard of but then again I'm not an avid watcher of Italian semi professional rugby. As Woodward said, you get to a point where the answer is not to build up Italian domestic rugby but to get as many of them as you can playing in the Premiership or Top 14. It's not great news for the Pro-12 but something different has to be done otherwise young Italian kids are going to turn away from the game.
The strength of England is that they can replace like for like. That we have no outstanding star is good for us as the team is the thing in our favour. Any country, such as Italy, where there is a small number of players is going to struggle. I'm with you, and Woodward. The problem is that Italy can, if all the stars are aligned and it's a full moon, put out a decent team. But that requires absolutely everyone to be fit. To start without the likes of Morici, Masi and Favaro, and then lose 4 more to injury in the first half hour of a game is a terminal problem - you just can't offer a credible performance in those circumstances. The bench was full of blokes even I haven't heard of but then again I'm not an avid watcher of Italian semi professional rugby. As Woodward said, you get to a point where the answer is not to build up Italian domestic rugby but to get as many of them as you can playing in the Premiership or Top 14. It's not great news for the Pro-12 but something different has to be done otherwise young Italian kids are going to turn away from the game.
Derek Smith said:
NRS said:
Derek Smith said:
England did well. Wales struggled against them and we put them to the sword, exposing their weaknesses and lack of options.
Do you mean France?But perhaps not.
Since Wales have not played Italy yet then it presumably was France you were referring to...?
Derek Smith said:
NRS said:
Derek Smith said:
England did well. Wales struggled against them and we put them to the sword, exposing their weaknesses and lack of options.
Do you mean France?But perhaps not.
Joey Ramone said:
Scotland managed to get out of their pool at the World Cup. England didn't. And I doubt the Welsh players considered the game on Saturday to be an easy win against second rate opponents. So it's not only arrogant language, it's technically incorrect.
In the context of the 6N it isn't. Since 2008, with only one exception, Scotland and Italy have occupied fifth and sixth spots in the final table. Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff