Multiple access points, poor WiFi

[2Btoo]

I'm having a problem with home WiFi. The set-up is thus;

- House is a Victorian affair on three floors (Basement, Ground and First) with solid internal walls
- Telephone line comes to my office (back of the house, first floor)
- Router (TP-Link) connects to telephone line in my office and to main computer (with networked drives holding films, music etc). This router has WiFi on and a DHCP server running, on Channel 9 (one of the quiet ones locally)
- Hardwired ethernet cable connects from router to a second router in the middle of the house (old Netgear DG934g). This is in the middle of the ground floor, in the centre of the house. This router has DHCP turned off, is only plugged into the ethernet cable, has WiFi turned on with the same SSID and password as the TP-Link router but is on channel 4 (another quiet one).

This seems to me like a logical arrangement that should give good WiFi coverage to the whole house - the TP-Link router can't reach the front of the house from my study which is why I put the second device in. Having the same SSID and password on the two routers should give devices the ability to move from one router (or 'WiFi access point') to the other seamlessly. However it doesn't seem to work like this; devices sometimes seem to hang on to the further router if you walk around the house with them and if you walk from one end of the house to the other they can show a weak signal when stood next to a router.

It is a particular problem with a Chromecast Audio we have just purchased; while playing to this device my mobile will apparently 'lose sight' of it, meaning that the playback stops at the end of a song until the 'phone is given a prod to re-connect. This is annoying. (For reference, the 'phone is an old Moto G, but other devices seem to have similar problems. 'Other Devices' include my wife's Moto E, a Nexus tablet and three or four laptops all running Linux distros.)

As an experiment, I have just turned off the WiFi on the TP-Link router upstairs so there is only one WiFi point in the centre of the house.
And this seems to have improved things; the devices all show the sort of level of signal you'd expect given where they are located and the Chromecast will carry on from song to song even when you walk around the house with the 'phone in your hand (or pocket). The downside is that I now have very weak WiFi signal at the ends of the house - particularly in my study and down at the front of the basement.

I am assuming the problem is that devices won't move from a WiFi point to another. Is this a fair assumption? If so, how do I make them more keen to move over, and will this cure the Chromecast problem?

All help welcomed - thanks. Do ask if any part of the explanation isn't clear!

[Bikerjon]

It's quite a common situation with Wi-Fi. In my experience roaming only works well when you have better grade access points and from the same manufacturer, preferably with some kind of controller. Stringing together two consumer grade routers may work OK for some, but it's just not optimal. Playing around with the channels may help, but it sounds like you've already done that!

[davepoth]

The Netgear one looks to be 8 years old or so, it's far past its best. Depending on what model the TP-Link is it might also be a bit pants.

I reckon you might be able to go for a single decent router, solve your coverage problems, and get better speed too.

[2Btoo]

Thanks for your help. I've done some googling and it seems that consumer-grade kit simply doesn't work that well in this sort of set-up and the solution is, as you say, better kit with a central controller.

Davepoth, yes, the Netgear thing is old (but was supposed to be good in it's day!) The TP-Link is a TD-W8960N, which isn't new either but isn't as old as the Netgear device.

I guess I am probably just expecting too much from the kit I have.

Yes, a better device in the centre of the house would be a good idea but the telephone line is at the top and back of the house. I guess I could put in a telephone extension but it would be a faff!

Thanks again for your help.

[F12MAD]

The issue of roaming on WiFi networks is complex.

Without having Routers (AP's) that are designed to provide roaming, You can use the same SSID on all AP's, However your device will most likely pick the signal that is strongest when the device first attaches. As you roam around it will most likely not release that AP until the signal very very low. Even if another AP is stronger. This is a function of the Wireless driver on the device. It is to prevent your device from constantly jumping back and forth between AP's. (which would generate a traffic over head , give intermittant drop outs and on a mobile device waste battery power. The signal will most likely become unusable before the device will automatically jump to the stronger AP signal.

On some devices (like desktops, tablets and laptops but less so on mobile devices ) you can go into the driver details and change the parameter that controls how weak the signal is before your device will jump to the stronger AP along with the hysteresis value, that determines how long it will be and how high the signal will be before the device jumps back to a previous AP.

If the driver does not provide for this, - on a Windows based system you can (i often have) , hack the driver inf file to achive the same. Ofcourse You'd have to accept an unsigned driver after doing so.

---

Roaming is purely a client decision. The wireless client is responsible for deciding it needs to roam, and then detecting, evaluating, and roaming to an alternative AP. WLAN standards bodies (such as IEEE) and industry bodies (such as Wi-Fi Alliance) do not specify when a client should roam, or how the client roams.

So roaming or not roaming, it is totally decided by your wireless client’s roaming algorithm. Different wireless client vendors’ roaming algorithms are also different and are not generally published.

---

http://www.tp-link.com/en/faq-592.html



You might find this useful when setting up your network.
https://vimeo.com/82105699 from http://www.wi-spy.co.uk/index.php/products/insside...

But it will not fix the roaming issue.

[megaphone]

ash73 said:

You could also try reducing the transmission power of one or more access points, counter-intuitive but might encourage the client to roam.

This. Although it may not be possible on standard consumer APs. More APs on lower power is the answer.

[deckster]

I have a very similar setup (3 APs around the house) and find that it varies very much by device, as mentioned above. I've seen that iOS devices tend to cope very well, and have had varying degrees of success with Androids. One thing I've found that worked well was an Android app called 'Wifi Roaming Fix', if memory serves. This pretty much solved all the problems associated with the afflicted Android devices keeping hold of weak signals - certainly worth a try, given that it's free.

[GuyW]

They require a little bit of time to tweak once installed but enterprise level coverage and they're really not that expensive. Used them before and haven't got a bad word to say about them.
All the reviews never fault them either.

https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap/

Depending on exact model, circa £200 for 3 AP's

[pozi]

Channel 4 and 9 are the overlap WiFi channels and suffer more from interference with neighboring signals.

Put both APs on the same channel and use either 1,6 or 11, pick the quietest from those 3 only and you should have a better signal and seamless roaming.

[manic47]

GuyW said:

They require a little bit of time to tweak once installed but enterprise level coverage and they're really not that expensive. Used them before and haven't got a bad word to say about them.
All the reviews never fault them either.

https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap/

Depending on exact model, circa £200 for 3 AP's

I'll second this - I've installed a few of the three packs lately
Not too difficult and give excellent coverage.

[rsbmw]

Ubiquiti stuff is great, but take a look at Open Mesh - cloud managed AP's. Very simple to manage, cheap, and additional AP's can 'mesh' rather than require cabling up.

As mentioned above, channels 1, 6 and 11 are the non overlapping channels.

[kingston12]

Great advice on this thread. I am having similar problems to the OP.

I have tried several router locations and several different router models, culminating in a Netgear Nighthawk R1900 model.

Music streaming seems to be the most difficult thing to do in my case. I have abandoned the 2.4ghz band altogether as it is just too congested in my area. That meant moving from Sonos (2.4 only for music) to Chromecast Audio which run on the 5ghz band.

I have got it all up and running (albeit with one of the Chromecast Audios wired to my network with a Powerline adaptor), but the 5ghz Wifi still barely stretches across the whole flat which is only about 45 feet by 25 at it's widest point.

I have just bought a Linksys Wifi extender to experiment with as it was on special offer at Amazon for under half price:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00X3CDWJ8?psc=...

From this thread, it sounds as though I'd be better off sticking with a more powerful router from Ubiquiti or Open Mesh.

[ATG]

pozi said:

Channel 4 and 9 are the overlap WiFi channels and suffer more from interference with neighboring signals.

Put both APs on the same channel and use either 1,6 or 11, pick the quietest from those 3 only and you should have a better signal and seamless roaming.

If both APs are on the same channel, aren't they going to interfere with each in other on just the same way as a neighbour's network might?

[anonymous-user]

ut one on 1 and one on 11

[outnumbered]

+1 for ubiquiti here. Only drawback is you need a server to run some of the advanced features. But a raspberry PI will do it OK if you have one.

[pozi]

ATG said:

pozi said:

Channel 4 and 9 are the overlap WiFi channels and suffer more from interference with neighboring signals.

Put both APs on the same channel and use either 1,6 or 11, pick the quietest from those 3 only and you should have a better signal and seamless roaming.

If both APs are on the same channel, aren't they going to interfere with each in other on just the same way as a neighbour's network might?

It doesn't work like that, this is a digital signal so think mobile phone technology, not walkie talkie

[2Btoo]

Thanks for your answers. The reason I chose the channels I did was that they are by far the least congested ones 'round here. I could have chosen ones with greater separation but then they would have been sharing with a number of other WiFi networks.

As it is, I think the simplest solution is to carry on with the single access point in the centre of the house on and the WiFi on one in my study off (i.e. use it just as a Modem and router, not as a WiFi access point as well). It's been like this for a few days now and, while the price to pay is weaker signal at the ends of the house it does mean that the Chromecast works as it should. It seems that in this instance I can't have my cake and eat it (or at least, not without buying one of the ubiquiti solutions). Shame, but there we are ...

An alternative configuration would be to put the better router (the TP-Link one) in the centre of the house and use the older Netgear item in my study. However this would mean that I'd be using the Netgear as the modem, and may lose some speed. Perhaps I should experiment with that a little!

Thanks for your help.

[George111]

2Btoo said:

Thanks for your answers. The reason I chose the channels I did was that they are by far the least congested ones 'round here. I could have chosen ones with greater separation but then they would have been sharing with a number of other WiFi networks.

As it is, I think the simplest solution is to carry on with the single access point in the centre of the house on and the WiFi on one in my study off (i.e. use it just as a Modem and router, not as a WiFi access point as well). It's been like this for a few days now and, while the price to pay is weaker signal at the ends of the house it does mean that the Chromecast works as it should. It seems that in this instance I can't have my cake and eat it (or at least, not without buying one of the ubiquiti solutions). Shame, but there we are ...

An alternative configuration would be to put the better router (the TP-Link one) in the centre of the house and use the older Netgear item in my study. However this would mean that I'd be using the Netgear as the modem, and may lose some speed. Perhaps I should experiment with that a little!

Thanks for your help.

I would use something like an Apple Airport Extreme in the middle of the house - if the TP-Link works Ok then the Apple will give you a stronger signal and will cope better with multiple connections from streaming devices.

Have you tested the 5GHz band ? You might find that's much less crowded . . . if it will stretch through your house as it doesn't have quite as good a reach as 2.4GHz.

If you have a dual band wifi access point (like the Apple or a modern Asus) you can try to put as much as you can on the 5GHz band, where it will work, leaving more of the 2.4GHz channel free. This works well as each device has to have it's "share" of the 2.4GHz channel, so slow devices using 802.11g for example can really screw up your wifi for the faster n devices as a g device will need longer to receive the same data than the n device. If all your devices are n then that's better and if you can offload some to the 5GHz channel the remaining devices will have more capacity available to them.