Freehold question

[BobSaunders]

Hi,

Quick one - bought my house two years ago, it is a terraced property - number 3 of a row of five on a managed estate.

I have queried to buy the freehold as it was not available with the property at time of purchase.

I have been advised by the management company that their client is looking to retain their freeholds at this moment in time, and therefore can not offer sale at this moment in time.

Before i go and speak to my solicitor and it costing myself money - is there any advice out there on what to do next? can i request it to be sold to me?

Property is in England, built circa 2012 by David Wilson homes.

Thanks, Matt

[BobSaunders]

Thank you moderators for moving to the correct forum - did not realise this one existed!

[JacquesMesrine]

I seem to remember that there are some rules where they must offer you a price to purchase, although they can make this simply ridiculous and therefore not viable.

Why do you want to buy it? The NW is full of leasehold properties, most start out at 999 years, so you've probably got 995 years left on it. No buyers will be put off by leasehold properties in the NW, despite what others around the country will probably bang on about in this thread.

[dingg]

BobSaunders said:

Hi,

Quick one - bought my house two years ago, it is a terraced property - number 3 of a row of five on a managed estate.

I have queried to buy the freehold as it was not available with the property at time of purchase.

I have been advised by the management company that their client is looking to retain their freeholds at this moment in time, and therefore can not offer sale at this moment in time.

Before i go and speak to my solicitor and it costing myself money - is there any advice out there on what to do next? can i request it to be sold to me?

Property is in England, built circa 2012 by David Wilson homes.

Thanks, Matt

How long is the lease?

do nothing next - you can't force the leaseholder to sell you the freehold

the question is why did you enter the purchase 2 years ago if you weren't happy without the freehold?

IANAL

[BobSaunders]

JacquesMesrine said:

I seem to remember that there are some rules where they must offer you a price to purchase, although they can make this simply ridiculous and therefore not viable.

Why do you want to buy it? The NW is full of leasehold properties, most start out at 999 years, so you've probably got 995 years left on it. No buyers will be put off by leasehold properties in the NW, despite what others around the country will probably bang on about in this thread.

Good challenge - but simply, we have the money. I also do not want to be paying service charges for non-existent service charges on the estate. The estate has a number of buildings with flats on it, all costs are attributed to the flats and their grounds. The accountancy figures are somewhat suspect - considerable rounding up of costs. The roads are now owned by the council so there is no cost attributed to this now.

I do not see much point in paying a yearly charge north of £500 for something i get no value from.

Thanks in advance.

[BobSaunders]

dingg said:

BobSaunders said:

Hi,

Quick one - bought my house two years ago, it is a terraced property - number 3 of a row of five on a managed estate.

I have queried to buy the freehold as it was not available with the property at time of purchase.

I have been advised by the management company that their client is looking to retain their freeholds at this moment in time, and therefore can not offer sale at this moment in time.

Before i go and speak to my solicitor and it costing myself money - is there any advice out there on what to do next? can i request it to be sold to me?

Property is in England, built circa 2012 by David Wilson homes.

Thanks, Matt

How long is the lease?

do nothing next - you can't force the leaseholder to sell you the freehold

the question is why did you enter the purchase 2 years ago if you weren't happy without the freehold?

IANAL

Hi, thanks for responding. Not sure on the exact number of years on the lease - its a lot, but within the next couple of years the cost grows exponentially.

We did not have the money at the time to buy it, as it was not available with the property, and it was not a risk to us (it still is not).

Now due to favourable circumstances and luck, we have the money, and rather than a new car i would prefer the leasehold.

Thanks!

[alfie2244]

Do they all come under the same freehold? If so it may be easier, with the other leaseholders (if they qualify) to form a management company and compel the freeholder to sell to you. There are routes to determine a fair price if the freeholder asks silly money, but you would be liable to pay all the freeholder's costs as well as your own.

My experience was a converted building with 6 flats that I owned the freehold of so not sure if it would work the same way for a terrace of houses......

This is a good site for info:

http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents...

[anonymous-user]

Are you certain that your property isn't already freehold but subject to a head lease on the estate?

I live in a similar development which is a managed estate. My property is freehold but I still have to pay half yearly maintenance for the estate.

[BobSaunders]

alfie2244 said:

Do they all come under the same freehold? If so it may be easier, with the other leaseholders (if they qualify) to form a management company and compel the freeholder to sell to you. There are routes to determine a fair price if the freeholder asks silly money, but you would be liable to pay all the freeholder's costs as well as your own.

My experience was a converted building with 6 flats that I owned the freehold of so not sure if it would work the same way for a terrace of houses......

This is a good site for info:

http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents...

Thanks. Next door purchased his at time of buying from DW Homes.

I'll have a word with the other houses in the row and see what they say about the above.

I've read that you can determine a fair price through solicitors and conveyors - i am hoping to avoid this by contacting the freehold owner direct and agreeing mutually.

The estate management company are being difficult, but i have requested contact details of the freehold owner - which i believe they re obliged to give, or i will go to the land registry.

[alfie2244]

BobSaunders said:

alfie2244 said:

Do they all come under the same freehold? If so it may be easier, with the other leaseholders (if they qualify) to form a management company and compel the freeholder to sell to you. There are routes to determine a fair price if the freeholder asks silly money, but you would be liable to pay all the freeholder's costs as well as your own.

My experience was a converted building with 6 flats that I owned the freehold of so not sure if it would work the same way for a terrace of houses......

This is a good site for info:

http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents...

Thanks. Next door purchased his at time of buying from DW Homes.

I'll have a word with the other houses in the row and see what they say about the above.

I've read that you can determine a fair price through solicitors and conveyors - i am hoping to avoid this by contacting the freehold owner direct and agreeing mutually.

The estate management company are being difficult, but i have requested contact details of the freehold owner - which i believe they re obliged to give, or i will go to the land registry.

IIRC I am sure there is a "free" freehold (reversion) calculator which values the freehold based on the annual ground rent / yrs lease remaining..that will give a very good indication of the fair price.. You have a legal right to know who the freeholder is but as in any business they may ask for a higher amount but they do need to be careful not to go too silly.

Edited by alfie2244 on Saturday 6th February 13:32

[JacquesMesrine]

BobSaunders said:

Good challenge - but simply, we have the money. I also do not want to be paying service charges for non-existent service charges on the estate. The estate has a number of buildings with flats on it, all costs are attributed to the flats and their grounds. The accountancy figures are somewhat suspect - considerable rounding up of costs. The roads are now owned by the council so there is no cost attributed to this now.

I do not see much point in paying a yearly charge north of £500 for something i get no value from.

Thanks in advance.

That's a different issue. The freehold gets you out of paying ground rent on the lease, but you may still be compelled to pay the service charge for maintenance.

I've paid ground rent to the landowner on all my houses so far up here, ranging from £2 a year through to £50. No services came with those houses, it was purely a payment to the landowner for the use of their land. Gated communities and their ilk, pay a further service charge to maintain the grounds and if flats the structure of the building.

What you might find is that buying the freehold gets you out of a nominal amount of the £500 amd the remainder is the ongoing service charge. I'd suggest your issue is with the service management company. See if you can form your own and run it as a non-profit operation.

[alfie2244]

JacquesMesrine said:

BobSaunders said:

Good challenge - but simply, we have the money. I also do not want to be paying service charges for non-existent service charges on the estate. The estate has a number of buildings with flats on it, all costs are attributed to the flats and their grounds. The accountancy figures are somewhat suspect - considerable rounding up of costs. The roads are now owned by the council so there is no cost attributed to this now.

I do not see much point in paying a yearly charge north of £500 for something i get no value from.

Thanks in advance.

That's a different issue. The freehold gets you out of paying ground rent on the lease, but you may still be compelled to pay the service charge for maintenance.

I've paid ground rent to the landowner on all my houses so far up here, ranging from £2 a year through to £50. No services came with those houses, it was purely a payment to the landowner for the use of their land. Gated communities and their ilk, pay a further service charge to maintain the grounds and if flats the structure of the building.

What you might find is that buying the freehold gets you out of a nominal amount of the £500 amd the remainder is the ongoing service charge. I'd suggest your issue is with the service management company. See if you can form your own and run it as a non-profit operation.

I struggle to see what £500 would be spent on in a row of terrace houses. You should get an annual breakdown by law and can refuse to pay if not.

My charges covered communal areas, services, maintenance, gardens etc and buildings insurance but I can't quite see how it works in this instance especially as 1 has already bought their freehold.

[olivebrown]

Collective enfranchisement.

[alfie2244]

olivebrown said:

Collective enfranchisement.

terraced houses?

[thurleigh5]

I haven't read any of the replies you've already had, but this is my two penny worth.

There are a lot of places you can browse which will give you a feeling about your concerns. I think the best place to start is not with a solicitor. The solicitor charges a couple of hundred quid an hour plus, and in my direct experience often doesn't understand the clients needs.

A good starting point is here:
http://www.leaseholdknowledge.com/
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/leaseh...

Good luck in your quest.

[rufusgti]

I can't really help with your issues, only to add that as far as I understand you don't need buildings insurance. I know this because I have just purchased the freehold on a property I already owned. I was never told the above so had my own buildings insurance policy ongoing. It was only once I completed the purchase of the freehold that I was advised i'd been wasting my money and that the previous owner of the freehold had been insuring the property.

[JacquesMesrine]

rufusgti said:

I can't really help with your issues, only to add that as far as I understand you don't need buildings insurance. I know this because I have just purchased the freehold on a property I already owned. I was never told the above so had my own buildings insurance policy ongoing. It was only once I completed the purchase of the freehold that I was advised i'd been wasting my money and that the previous owner of the freehold had been insuring the property.

This is unbelievably bad advice. On a block of flats the service charge does cover the buildings insurance, but this is completely separate to the leasehold / freehold situation. On a house, be it terraced, semi detached, detached, or whatever,mthencar you absolutely 100% need buildings insurance. It is also dirt cheap unless you happen to own a particularly weird house and / or live near a river / on a floodplain.

Why are people struggling with this simple concept?

[anonymous-user]

Have you checked your lease OP?

[smckeown]

You would be foolish to under estimate the significance and financial implication of leasehold v freehold. How long is your lease?

[S11Steve]

We've looking to buy or FH next year, not because of the financial cost of ground rent, but because of the ridiculous covenants and admin costs of the management company. We've not allowed to put a fence up on boundaries, we need their permission for any renovations and building work, and each application is £200 a go. The additional fees in conveyancing when we pitched the house was around £700. The neighbours bought their lease out for around £1500 and that's cheaper than the admin costs for works we have planned.