Why didn't Sarries finish seventh in the Aviva Premiership?

[Kermit power]

I've just been looking at Eddie Jones' squad for the Australia tour, and speaking as a Quins fan, I'm completely conflicted by it!

Quins are second only to Sarries in the number of players selected, and on top of that Jamie Roberts and Tim Visser are frequently off on their own international duties with Wales and Scotland.

OK, I know international absentees aren't the only thing that matters, and the loss of Nick Evans to a broken leg for a big chunk of the season was a key factor too, but why is it that Sarries can lose so many players to international duty and still finish the season comfortably on top, yet as soon as Quins lose the internationals, it all goes to pot?

[hornetrider]

Without knowing the player roster of each team, the answer is depth.

[Kermit power]

hornetrider said:

Without knowing the player roster of each team, the answer is depth.

I'm sure you're right, but how on earth do you get the depth within the salary cap if you've got all those players out on international duty?

[Matt172]

Squad depth I think is the answer too, they interviewed brad barritt after the semi final and he mentioned they have a 55 man squad. Not completely sure how they can manage to finance this within the salary cap

[Smollet]

Slightly off topic why isn't Wallace included in the Saxons squad? Hard to find a better 7 atm in the AP.

[Smollet]

Matt172 said:

Squad depth I think is the answer too, they interviewed brad barritt after the semi final and he mentioned they have a 55 man squad. Not completely sure how they can manage to finance this within the salary cap

Perhaps they cheat. Not unknown. Btw I'm not knocking Saracens success and style of play which now is a joy to watch and I'm a Quins fan so it's not easy for me to say

[Vocal Minority]

Kermit - the logic is only very solid when you look at the situation on a player by player basis.

Maybe at all levels of their squad Saracens are a really cohesive unit (and they really seem to be) - and this can over-ride man for man deficiencies. Look at Exeter in any season ever (though admittedly they have started to grab bigger names to make the push from 5th to 2nd.

Anyway - speaking of Eddie Jones and Saracens - Ashton has gone into full on flounce mode

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36363077

[Kermit power]

Vocal Minority said:

Kermit - the logic is only very solid when you look at the situation on a player by player basis.

Maybe at all levels of their squad Saracens are a really cohesive unit (and they really seem to be) - and this can over-ride man for man deficiencies. Look at Exeter in any season ever (though admittedly they have started to grab bigger names to make the push from 5th to 2nd.

I was actually thinking of Exeter as well. They seem to have taken the opposite route of having an average player ability right up at the top of the tables, but without having anything like as much spread between their upper and lower performers. Maybe this would be a better approach for Quins if they can't afford the strength in depth because of the wage bills of their stars?

Vocal Minority said:

Anyway - speaking of Eddie Jones and Saracens - Ashton has gone into full on flounce mode

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36363077

Hopefully that's the final nail in the coffin of the showboating tosser's international career!

[Vocal Minority]

I honestly think it's a coaching and culture issue rather than a player issue.

Worcester have never had truly awful players, many have gone on to be very successful at other premiership clubs.

However, the team never managed to be greater than the sum of its parts. Often it was considerably less!

Exeter have managed the precise opposite.

And Saracens are turning into the holy grail of star names playing as an awesome cohesive unit. No other premiership team can get close to that.