how many sportsmen are 'immortal'?
Discussion
Depends on what regions of the world you add in the mix as many from the distant past would not have had truly global fame - if the test is known in US Europe Africa Asia and LA it's a small group and very few outside the global sports and who were not massively marketed globally
Ali
Senna
Pele
Tiger Woods
Bolt
All faces on billboards and on TV globally at various points in time
Certainly can see an argument for those that were massive as routes to market product from the more recent past being included but maybe behind the global icons
Jordan
Beckham
Those with enormous cut through regionally but no global appeal would fail my test
Sachin - God as others have said in India but not global
That Chinese hurdler
Various boxers like Manny in the Philippines who became politicians
Ali
Senna
Pele
Tiger Woods
Bolt
All faces on billboards and on TV globally at various points in time
Certainly can see an argument for those that were massive as routes to market product from the more recent past being included but maybe behind the global icons
Jordan
Beckham
Those with enormous cut through regionally but no global appeal would fail my test
Sachin - God as others have said in India but not global
That Chinese hurdler
Various boxers like Manny in the Philippines who became politicians
Impasse said:
This is the crux of the matter. A "personality" will only be idolised and subsequently immortalised by those who know and revere them. For the vast majority of others these sports men and women are unknowns and an irrelevance.
It's only when their fame or notoriety transcends their chosen sport that they have a chance of becoming a household name and this only happens to very few sports people. For instance, of the list already developing I have heard of very few and those I am aware of I have little knowledge of their sport or their part in it.
Ali? Yep, a boxer who fought erm, umm - don't know, but he's famous for a few mildly amusing one liners.
Beckham? Famous footballer, he played for England and married a Spice Girl.
Ooh, Bannister? I know him, four minute mile in, erm, 19something somewhere. It was filmed in black and white so it was a while ago. No idea what he looks like.
I think this is true.It's only when their fame or notoriety transcends their chosen sport that they have a chance of becoming a household name and this only happens to very few sports people. For instance, of the list already developing I have heard of very few and those I am aware of I have little knowledge of their sport or their part in it.
Ali? Yep, a boxer who fought erm, umm - don't know, but he's famous for a few mildly amusing one liners.
Beckham? Famous footballer, he played for England and married a Spice Girl.
Ooh, Bannister? I know him, four minute mile in, erm, 19something somewhere. It was filmed in black and white so it was a while ago. No idea what he looks like.
For now I would say for anyone alive during the 70s both Ali & Pele would be there. I do question though for people outside of this generation how many would know of them if they were not into sport.
Whilst not of the highest talent on the pitch, I do think Beckham for now is up there.
I would also put Senna there.
Memories however are short & sportsmen & women will fade very quickly from the memory in the modern day, even for the very best.
As others have said, much depends on who you are asking, but I'd say that overall they have to generally be remembered for something other than just their actual sporting activity to reach the point of immortality unless they've truly blown their sport away.
I'd say the likes of Roger Bannister fit into the latter category, but they are few and far between.
Ali will live on, I think, but as much for his name change and opposition to the Vietnam war as for his actual boxing.
An interesting one is Tommie Smith and John Carlos. Most people reading this will probably be thinking "who???", but one photograph would make everyone go "Ah, yes, them", although arguably Peter Norman is more deserving of praise.
People like Beckam??
People will only remember them for as long as they've got their PR machines running at full blast!
I'd say the likes of Roger Bannister fit into the latter category, but they are few and far between.
Ali will live on, I think, but as much for his name change and opposition to the Vietnam war as for his actual boxing.
An interesting one is Tommie Smith and John Carlos. Most people reading this will probably be thinking "who???", but one photograph would make everyone go "Ah, yes, them", although arguably Peter Norman is more deserving of praise.
People like Beckam??
People will only remember them for as long as they've got their PR machines running at full blast!Kermit power said:
People like Beckam?? People will only remember them for as long as they've got their PR machines running at full blast!
Currently as a household name who has transcended his sport. Yes. People will only remember them for as long as they've got their PR machines running at full blast!Will he be in a 10 years or so I doubt it, but the current generation will know him. Go into a village in India or somewhere in Africa more will have heard of him than Cameron or probably most other politicians including Obama. Doesn't mean he is a great sportsman or anything like that. It's just the way it is. The likes of Sky & BeIn beam these people into every village in the world, you get football everywhere!
It is only the recent Senna film that has renewed interest in him, and is responsible for his deification (no not defecation). I suspect in another 10 years he will have faded again to the point that many young adults with an interest in motorsport will only vaguely know who he is. Similarly with Michael Schumacher and Tiger Woods. Had they both retired at the right point then maybe they would be in the pantheon, but Schumacher's return to F1 and Tiger Woods private life, and latter mediocre career both ensured that they became very mortal indeed.
I don't think it was Ali's sporting achievements that gave him his status, but rather how he used that fame as a platform to campaign for bigger issues in a wider society.
I don't think it was Ali's sporting achievements that gave him his status, but rather how he used that fame as a platform to campaign for bigger issues in a wider society.
No one has mentioned Mike Tyson. Has hasn't been a boxer for many years, but I would think his name is recognised around the world by people who have little interest in sport.
I can't say whether he'll be remembered decades from now, but we cant know if that will be the case for anyone currently in th public eye.
I can't say whether he'll be remembered decades from now, but we cant know if that will be the case for anyone currently in th public eye.
People may scoff at Beckham but the reality is he was a professional sportsman whose face is known pretty much the world over. I would guess that if you picked 20 random global names from whatever field you like through entertainment, sport, politics, whatever and Beckham's name was on that list he would be up there with those globally recognised.
Of course his name might fade away but he has been retired from football for some years now and it's still going strong so ignoring his achievements and actual sporting prowess - even though he genuinely was a more than decent footballer - for a moment as its irrelevent to the OP he's still very much a global name.
Of course his name might fade away but he has been retired from football for some years now and it's still going strong so ignoring his achievements and actual sporting prowess - even though he genuinely was a more than decent footballer - for a moment as its irrelevent to the OP he's still very much a global name.
Ronaldo is probably the closest these days. With the reach of Real Madrid I'd imagine he's likely the most recognisable sportsman on earth.
Bolt would be next for me. These two have had the advantage in being famous in the internet age. Most of the others mentioned were not, and wouldn't register with the majority of the world, and younger people in particular.
For the OP criteria they have to play something popular worldwide to get the recognition. Jordan for all his achievements and his empire fails that test.
Impossible to answer though.
Bolt would be next for me. These two have had the advantage in being famous in the internet age. Most of the others mentioned were not, and wouldn't register with the majority of the world, and younger people in particular.
For the OP criteria they have to play something popular worldwide to get the recognition. Jordan for all his achievements and his empire fails that test.
Impossible to answer though.
CaptainSlow said:
I would suggest Ali and Pele are way ahead of the others, Senna the closest third. All three had remarkable careers. All the other names listed are greats but not legends. Beckham? Nice chap but mainly marketing.
Having reread the OP, I misunderstood the thread. My three were based on actual achievements and outstanding ability rather than name awareness (I intentionally didn't use the word recognition). Fas1975 said:
Michael Jordan. Greatest basketball player, but off the court, created a global brand, so even if you've never seen him play, chances are, you've worn his logo at some point
Really? I've heard of him, and I know he was a basketball player, but that's about as far as it goes. I couldn't tell you any teams he played for or anything he won. If I've ever written his logo, I couldn't say, as I've no idea what it looks like!Valentino Rossi, I think he was the first motorcycle racer to create a brand for himself, VR46. When he won his first title instead of taking the No1 plate as was the convention he retained 46, now all riders/drivers keep their number and merchandise it.
Many people I work with have no interest in motorcycle racing but know Rossi.
Many people I work with have no interest in motorcycle racing but know Rossi.
Never heard of VR46, although have heard of Rossi. Couldn't tell you how successful he is though, or what class of bike he rides. Can guarantee my wife and daughter would never have heard of him. Immortal? Nowhere near. This thread appears to be turning into 'sportsmen who we really admire and think everyone else should as well'.
Nobody mentioned Jack Nicklaus?
Tiger Woods has got to be up there after Ali imo. He changed golf forever and has become a global sporting icon. You could show his picture almost anywhere in the world and people will know who he is.
Micheal Jordan is very close behind Tiger and is someone who I admire immensely.
Tiger Woods has got to be up there after Ali imo. He changed golf forever and has become a global sporting icon. You could show his picture almost anywhere in the world and people will know who he is.
Micheal Jordan is very close behind Tiger and is someone who I admire immensely.
Antony Moxey said:
Never heard of VR46, although have heard of Rossi. Couldn't tell you how successful he is though, or what class of bike he rides. Can guarantee my wife and daughter would never have heard of him. Immortal? Nowhere near. This thread appears to be turning into 'sportsmen who we really admire and think everyone else should as well'.
I could of course be wrong but I suspect your wife would have heard of Rossi.Bolt is a good shout. Athletics is not a popular sport relatively speaking but I bet almost anyone you ask will have heard of him.
I am biased being a swimming and Phelps fan but he is another who is well known outside of a relatively un popular sport.
With Phelps he has done something people wont touch for years. Some world records hang around a long time but others are broken and the previous holders forgotten. I don't think anyone is going to get withing a country mile of his medal haul and certainly no one is going to match/beat the 8 golds in one olympics.
I am biased being a swimming and Phelps fan but he is another who is well known outside of a relatively un popular sport.
With Phelps he has done something people wont touch for years. Some world records hang around a long time but others are broken and the previous holders forgotten. I don't think anyone is going to get withing a country mile of his medal haul and certainly no one is going to match/beat the 8 golds in one olympics.
Corpulent Tosser said:
Antony Moxey said:
Never heard of VR46, although have heard of Rossi. Couldn't tell you how successful he is though, or what class of bike he rides. Can guarantee my wife and daughter would never have heard of him. Immortal? Nowhere near. This thread appears to be turning into 'sportsmen who we really admire and think everyone else should as well'.
I could of course be wrong but I suspect your wife would have heard of Rossi.Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff