Wiggins - could this be a Similar issue as Lance A ?
Discussion
el stovey said:
mcelliott said:
el stovey said:
Because you don't give away information about your legal advantages, doctors, psychologists, technology, training methods, facilities coaches etc to the opposition,
What about taking a performance enhancing drug? For a team that prides itself on transparency 
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-says-...
They're not cheating in any way. Everything they do is about enhancing performance. That's what marginal gains is about. Legally enhancing performance in every possible aspect.
What next? Complaints about them having better coaches or a bigger budget or better team buses.
your quoted article said:
There is no suggestion that either Wiggins or Team Sky have broken any rules and the Briton's TUE was approved by the UCI doctor at the time.
Edited by el stovey on Sunday 25th September 16:00
I think the reality of the whole "Drugs in Sport" in general needs to be properly investigated. It's my suspicion that the idea of a "level paying field" is romantic nonsense espoused by people who've never competed at anything or understand those that do.
I suspect very strongly that the reason for banned substances in sports is largely due to the risk or perceived risk to the competitors health and the knock on ramifications that has for governing bodies liabilities and marketing risks. The general public DO NOT want to see people killing themselves on camera to win. That said I think there is a massive overstatement of the risks from many PEDs and most athletes and competitors know this, even in the ridiculous world of body building and Pro Wrestling the results of massively excessive PED use show little statistical risk of premature death or injury through over use.
Framing this as a moral argument isn't ever going to resolve anything and only leads to pointless discussion and scapegoating and force the athletes to look for new ways to be inside the rules with unidentifiable risks.
Wiggins should at this point now be honest, state the drugs do work, he took them to enable him to compete at a higher level and would be happy for other competitors to do the same.
I suspect very strongly that the reason for banned substances in sports is largely due to the risk or perceived risk to the competitors health and the knock on ramifications that has for governing bodies liabilities and marketing risks. The general public DO NOT want to see people killing themselves on camera to win. That said I think there is a massive overstatement of the risks from many PEDs and most athletes and competitors know this, even in the ridiculous world of body building and Pro Wrestling the results of massively excessive PED use show little statistical risk of premature death or injury through over use.
Framing this as a moral argument isn't ever going to resolve anything and only leads to pointless discussion and scapegoating and force the athletes to look for new ways to be inside the rules with unidentifiable risks.
Wiggins should at this point now be honest, state the drugs do work, he took them to enable him to compete at a higher level and would be happy for other competitors to do the same.
Wiggin's explanation seemed to be that he was suffering a bit with breathing, and asked the Doctors to give him something that would "prevent" this issue from causing bigger problems during the weeks into the tour. So perhaps in other words, it was pre-emptive, rather than to necessarily deal with an existing condition. To "level the playing field" is Armstrong-esque in its arrogance. More like to level the playing field in his favour! My wife is a doctor and never once heard of this medication given for asthma as presented by Wiggins. By the sounds of it, it seems more appropriate drug for people who are properly f
ked in the joints and muscles, probably in hospital and probably dodging the grim reaper (my words, not hers!)
It seems that Wiggins left his previous team (zero doping policy and where he was an 4 place GC rider) , went to Sky, did the now standard excuse of losing a few Kgs, and - tour champ! For an asthmatic, it is strange that he was a smoker too.
ked in the joints and muscles, probably in hospital and probably dodging the grim reaper (my words, not hers!)It seems that Wiggins left his previous team (zero doping policy and where he was an 4 place GC rider) , went to Sky, did the now standard excuse of losing a few Kgs, and - tour champ! For an asthmatic, it is strange that he was a smoker too.
Edited by JuniorD on Monday 26th September 14:02
C'mon is anybody seriously believing that Wiggo was so athsmatics that he needed a treatment given to people that are "dodging the grim reaper"?
Looking at the skeletal physique of Wiggo and Froome on the TdF and still destroying specialist TT'ers in the race of truth should have raised a few eyebrows from anyone who knows cycling!
This is not confined to team Sky it's a competitive cycling problem which just can't help itself in the persuit of "marginal gains".
Looking at the skeletal physique of Wiggo and Froome on the TdF and still destroying specialist TT'ers in the race of truth should have raised a few eyebrows from anyone who knows cycling!
This is not confined to team Sky it's a competitive cycling problem which just can't help itself in the persuit of "marginal gains".
Granfondo said:
C'mon is anybody seriously believing that Wiggo was so athsmatics that he needed a treatment given to people that are "dodging the grim reaper"?
Looking at the skeletal physique of Wiggo and Froome on the TdF and still destroying specialist TT'ers in the race of truth should have raised a few eyebrows from anyone who knows cycling!
This is not confined to team Sky it's a competitive cycling problem which just can't help itself in the persuit of "marginal gains".
What, you mean like Chris Froome beating Tony Martin on the stage 5 time trial (flat) in the Tour of Romandy. Apparently he was so ill that they had to fast track a TUE. He ended up winning the whole thing overall.Looking at the skeletal physique of Wiggo and Froome on the TdF and still destroying specialist TT'ers in the race of truth should have raised a few eyebrows from anyone who knows cycling!
This is not confined to team Sky it's a competitive cycling problem which just can't help itself in the persuit of "marginal gains".
Thin guys going quick in TT's doesn't raise eybrows really, lots do. Dumoulin is hardly a tank is he, Rohan Dennis similar, Alex Dowsett, Geraint Thomas, David Millar, Steve Cummings, all great TT riders who are very thin. Chris Froome was only 30 secs down on Martin in the Olympics in 2012 so its not like he's a st time trial rider, he's always been good, in fact that is how he got spotted I think, riding a strong TT on a heap of a bike for Kenya all those years ago or whatever it was. Equally Wiggins has always had a huge engine, but what this drug may have helped him do is get rid of those last pesky KG's
That said, he (wiggins) knows what he has done, he's mucked up, its legal as it stands but it stinks, and sadly he'll have lost the respect of many because of this. For me, Brailsford needs to start speaking, and quick. In fact, the whole of Sky have been quite quiet I think? Do find the dynamic between David Millar putting the boot in and his sister being 'head of winning behaviour' is just hilarious.
At no point in any interviews, or whatever have I ever heard him talk about suffering with it. He smashed everyone in the Tour of Cali during peak hayfever season without the need for the same injection then, and why didn’t he need anything like this when he was at Garmin or Confidis?
t time trial rider, he's always been good, in fact that is how he got spotted I think, riding a strong TT on a heap of a bike for Kenya all those years ago or whatever it was. Equally Wiggins has always had a huge engine, but what this drug may have helped him do is get rid of those last pesky KG'sThat said, he (wiggins) knows what he has done, he's mucked up, its legal as it stands but it stinks, and sadly he'll have lost the respect of many because of this. For me, Brailsford needs to start speaking, and quick. In fact, the whole of Sky have been quite quiet I think? Do find the dynamic between David Millar putting the boot in and his sister being 'head of winning behaviour' is just hilarious.
At no point in any interviews, or whatever have I ever heard him talk about suffering with it. He smashed everyone in the Tour of Cali during peak hayfever season without the need for the same injection then, and why didn’t he need anything like this when he was at Garmin or Confidis?
Edited by okgo on Monday 26th September 16:36
http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/paul-...
As usual Paul Kimmage can be relied upon to tread where others fear to go.
As usual Paul Kimmage can be relied upon to tread where others fear to go.
okgo said:
2012
That was a full year into a highly suspect transformation, so yeah he is undoubtedly strong against the clock. 2011 Tour of Poland he was 85th overall, 3 weeks later in the Vuelta he was 2nd overall. So I've always viewed him with equal suspicion as Wiggins. I do agree that Brailsford has got to come out and start answering questions.johnxjsc1985 said:
The only way to prevent this is to have a list of banned substances that are not to be administered under any circumstances and if you have Asthma or Allergies then tough titty. We should also now be able to have a list of TEU's to see how deep into the Peleton this goes.
There's a novel idea, riders shouldn't take PEDs! That's worked really well so far!!!!!
FredClogs said:
even in the ridiculous world of body building and Pro Wrestling the results of massively excessive PED use show little statistical risk of premature death or injury through over use.
Would be good to see some evidence of this. Some of those that I followed when younger seemed to pass away remarkably earlymcelliott said:
okgo said:
2012
That was a full year into a highly suspect transformation, so yeah he is undoubtedly strong against the clock. 2011 Tour of Poland he was 85th overall, 3 weeks later in the Vuelta he was 2nd overall. So I've always viewed him with equal suspicion as Wiggins. I do agree that Brailsford has got to come out and start answering questions.JuniorD said:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/paul-...
As usual Paul Kimmage can be relied upon to tread where others fear to go.
Sorry? Kimmage has become a witch finder general. Witch As usual Paul Kimmage can be relied upon to tread where others fear to go.
is irritating because he's lost his impartiality. His skills as a journalist. That article is more about kicking Walsh (with whom he fell out with after DW had all access to Sky.)He makes a valid point in the article. Just what is going on at Sky? But I don't see him pursuing any of the other teams. He's out to get Sky with all the same passion he had for Armstrong. Why hasn't he written about Astana?
johnxjsc1985 said:
The only way to prevent this is to have a list of banned substances that are not to be administered under any circumstances and if you have Asthma or Allergies then tough titty. ...
What I don't understand with the current furore across a number of sports is why this doesn't apply already.Something either helps your performance or not. It's either banned or it isn't.
The way it is now is a joke.
Murph7355 said:
What I don't understand with the current furore across a number of sports is why this doesn't apply already.
Something either helps your performance or not. It's either banned or it isn't.
The way it is now is a joke.
I think Brailsford is suggesting this is the way forward now. I personally think the debate or investigation should be into the Doctors who initially prescribe the drug and on what basis.Something either helps your performance or not. It's either banned or it isn't.
The way it is now is a joke.
epom said:
frisbee said:
epom said:
Anyone that thinks they took these for medical or asthmatic reasons is utterly deluded.
By the letter of the law yes they are legal, I'd imagine the reason for those laws is there would be no one at allowed compete if they got stricter. So yes while it's not illegal, but how anyone can claim it isn't cheating quite simply doesn't want to see what is going on.
Hook, line and sinker. Those Russians have got you eating out of their hand.By the letter of the law yes they are legal, I'd imagine the reason for those laws is there would be no one at allowed compete if they got stricter. So yes while it's not illegal, but how anyone can claim it isn't cheating quite simply doesn't want to see what is going on.
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