Wiggins - could this be a Similar issue as Lance A ?
Discussion
Murph7355 said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
The only way to prevent this is to have a list of banned substances that are not to be administered under any circumstances and if you have Asthma or Allergies then tough titty. ...
What I don't understand with the current furore across a number of sports is why this doesn't apply already.Something either helps your performance or not. It's either banned or it isn't.
The way it is now is a joke.
johnxjsc1985 said:
Murph7355 said:
What I don't understand with the current furore across a number of sports is why this doesn't apply already.
Something either helps your performance or not. It's either banned or it isn't.
The way it is now is a joke.
I think Brailsford is suggesting this is the way forward now. I personally think the debate or investigation should be into the Doctors who initially prescribe the drug and on what basis.Something either helps your performance or not. It's either banned or it isn't.
The way it is now is a joke.
You can't ban athletes taking medicine, that's ridiculous and would lead to some very poor standards of competition.
FredClogs said:
You mean the Doctors employed under Brailsford's management?
You can't ban athletes taking medicine, that's ridiculous and would lead to some very poor standards of competition.
Athletes are banned from taking drugs even if they are prescribed initially by Doctors. If your suggesting the Doctors prescribed medicine because Brailsford ordered them to do so then that's another Story and I very much doubt he would try and influence a Doctor to prescribe anything.You can't ban athletes taking medicine, that's ridiculous and would lead to some very poor standards of competition.
johnxjsc1985 said:
Athletes are banned from taking drugs even if they are prescribed initially by Doctors. If your suggesting the Doctors prescribed medicine because Brailsford ordered them to do so then that's another Story and I very much doubt he would try and influence a Doctor to prescribe anything.
Winning the biggest race out there will do things to people. And given how he made such a big public claim I don't think, now knowing what we do, we can ever rule out this being fully supported and planned for by the whole team for the obvious benefits it would entail.frisbee said:
epom said:
frisbee said:
epom said:
Anyone that thinks they took these for medical or asthmatic reasons is utterly deluded.
By the letter of the law yes they are legal, I'd imagine the reason for those laws is there would be no one at allowed compete if they got stricter. So yes while it's not illegal, but how anyone can claim it isn't cheating quite simply doesn't want to see what is going on.
Hook, line and sinker. Those Russians have got you eating out of their hand.By the letter of the law yes they are legal, I'd imagine the reason for those laws is there would be no one at allowed compete if they got stricter. So yes while it's not illegal, but how anyone can claim it isn't cheating quite simply doesn't want to see what is going on.
From the earlier posted Independent article:
Wiggins' use of the powerful anti-inflammatory drug triamcinolone on the eve of the 2011 and 2012 Tours and 2013 Giro d'Italia was revealed when a group of Russian computer hackers starting leaking the medical data of dozens of top athletes almost a fortnight ago.
The 36-year-old British star applied, and was granted, three therapeutic use exemptions (TUEs) to take the drug to deal with a pollen allergy that aggravates his long-standing asthma condition.
But triamcinolone has also been widely used as a doping agent by riders, including Lance Armstrong, and is believed to help athletes lose weight, fight fatigue and aid recovery.
Wiggins' TUEs, which were stolen from the World Anti-Doping Agency's computer servers by the so-called 'Fancy Bears international hack team', were approved by cycling's world governing body the UCI and there is no suggestion that he or the team have broken any rules.
But that has not stopped both the rider and Team Sky facing a barrage of criticism from inside and outside the sport, particularly given the team's much-publicised "zero tolerance" attitude towards doping, and Wiggins' own comments about drugs cheats and the use of needles in his autobiographies.
Walsh went on to say that the revelations made by the Fancy Bears hack show that Wiggins had an unfair advantage over his competitors.
"Although Bradley Wiggins has a fantastic record at the Olympics, his greatest achievement was becoming the first Briton to win the Tour de France," Walsh added.
"So the Tour de France was the No 1 thing on his honours list and now it's tarnished because he got a drug that it's very hard to see the justification for him being given that amount of a corticosteroid by injection when it was four days before the start of the 2012 Tour de France.
"In medical terms, it has been a treatment for pollen-related allergies. But the medical world before 2011 when Bradley Wiggins started taking this, it had gone into disrepute. Even the medical world were saying this drug is too extreme at therapy for pollen-related allergies and had gone away from it. So for the doctor of Team Sky to apply for this, for the UCI to authorise it and for Bradley Wiggins to have it, in my view it was just plain wrong and in my view the likelihood is it gave Bradley Wiggins a performance-enhancing advantage."
el stovey said:
So to cut a long story short Wiggins and team sky have done nothing illegal at all.
Wiggins used some stuff with approval from WADA and the UCI and they're the ones who decide who's cheating or not.
Wiggins said he hadn't injected anything but meant hadn't been doping. see above.
At best they failed to meet their own publicly stated standards. At worst, Wiggins didn't actually need the particular medication requested the TUE. Somewhere in middle certain members of Sky have peddled lies / mistruths.Wiggins used some stuff with approval from WADA and the UCI and they're the ones who decide who's cheating or not.
Wiggins said he hadn't injected anything but meant hadn't been doping. see above.
Even now they are bending the story in quite a feat of wordsmithery.
I feel bad for the Sky riders who are wholly unassociated with the whole thing.
el stovey said:
So to cut a long story short Wiggins and team sky have done nothing illegal at all.
Wiggins used some stuff with approval from WADA and the UCI and they're the ones who decide who's cheating or not.
Wiggins said he hadn't injected anything but meant hadn't been doping. see above.
One of Wiggin's spokes persons said that he was referring to intravenous injections a la EPO etc, not intramuscular which is what happened with the TUE he used.Wiggins used some stuff with approval from WADA and the UCI and they're the ones who decide who's cheating or not.
Wiggins said he hadn't injected anything but meant hadn't been doping. see above.
Derek Chevalier said:
Would be good to see some evidence of this. Some of those that I followed when younger seemed to pass away remarkably early
Realistically, throwing Bodybuilding into the mix is a bit much.Comparing a Pro bodybuilders steroid habit to an Olympic athletes is like comparing an Alcoholic to someone who has a sip of communion wine.
Edited by Thankyou4calling on Tuesday 27th September 13:01
JuniorD said:
el stovey said:
So to cut a long story short Wiggins and team sky have done nothing illegal at all.
Wiggins used some stuff with approval from WADA and the UCI and they're the ones who decide who's cheating or not.
Wiggins said he hadn't injected anything but meant hadn't been doping. see above.
At best they failed to meet their own publicly stated standards. At worst, Wiggins didn't actually need the particular medication requested the TUE. Somewhere in middle certain members of Sky have peddled lies / mistruths.Wiggins used some stuff with approval from WADA and the UCI and they're the ones who decide who's cheating or not.
Wiggins said he hadn't injected anything but meant hadn't been doping. see above.
Even now they are bending the story in quite a feat of wordsmithery.
I feel bad for the Sky riders who are wholly unassociated with the whole thing.
The South African doctor Swart basically called it doping, D.Millar categorized it as doping, Armstrong used it and multiple sources say it's a medicine which is far too strong for people who are just asthmatic.
It seems Wiggins abused the system. a system that wasn't intended for performance enhancing purposes.
Meanwhile Froome has similar reaction without mentioning Wiggins.
https://twitter.com/chrisfroome/status/78071469665...
Granfondo said:
el stovey said:
So why isn't he being investigated for doping? That's right, because he isn't cheating doping or doing anything illegal. In fact what he did was specifically approved by WADA.
I'm not sure why people are banging on about it being doping or cheating. He applied for o TUE and was granted it after consideration from the governing body and their doctors. How can that be doping or illegal? It's completely legal, his actual case has been approved by those that write the rules. You can't get any more legal than that.
Hundreds of athletes compete with TUEs all the time. All legal and approved.
Do you all distrust WADA now or think you know more about his case than they did when they approved his use of whatever it was?
el stovey said:
Granfondo said:
el stovey said:
So why isn't he being investigated for doping? That's right, because he isn't cheating doping or doing anything illegal. In fact what he did was specifically approved by WADA.
I'm not sure why people are banging on about it being doping or cheating. He applied for o TUE and was granted it after consideration from the governing body and their doctors. How can that be doping or illegal? It's completely legal, his actual case has been approved by those that write the rules. You can't get any more legal than that.
Hundreds of athletes compete with TUEs all the time. All legal and approved.
Do you all distrust WADA now or think you know more about his case than they did when they approved his use of whatever it was?
No rules broken and UCI and WADA sanctioned!
Please read what doctors and other cyclists are saying about this drug!
Wiggo doesn't seem like your chronic bead ridden athsmatics to me but then again maybe you know more about his condition?
Granfondo said:
Lance was the most tested athlete on earth and never failed a test was the line he trotted out time and time again!
No rules broken and UCI and WADA sanctioned!
Please read what doctors and other cyclists are saying about this drug!
Wiggo doesn't seem like your chronic bead ridden athsmatics to me but then again maybe you know more about his condition?
Lance was taking banned substances, Wiggins wasn't. That's the difference. Team sky have asked for an exemption and been given it. That's not doping. There are approved substances, not approved substances, substances approved in certain amounts, substances approved with exemptions.No rules broken and UCI and WADA sanctioned!
Please read what doctors and other cyclists are saying about this drug!
Wiggo doesn't seem like your chronic bead ridden athsmatics to me but then again maybe you know more about his condition?
It's completely different to what lance Armstrong was doing. WADA looked at his case, consulted with medical experts and approved the use. What's dodgy about that?
If he hadn't got the TUE then he wouldn't have used the substance.
el stovey said:
Lance was taking banned substances, Wiggins wasn't. That's the difference. Team sky have asked for an exemption and been given it. That's not doping. There are approved substances, not approved substances, substances approved in certain amounts, substances approved with exemptions.
It's completely different to what lance Armstrong was doing. WADA looked at his case, consulted with medical experts and approved the use. What's dodgy about that?
If he hadn't got the TUE then he wouldn't have used the substance.
You either are or pretend to be deliberately naïve.It's completely different to what lance Armstrong was doing. WADA looked at his case, consulted with medical experts and approved the use. What's dodgy about that?
If he hadn't got the TUE then he wouldn't have used the substance.
Wiggo in July 2011 on the enforcement of the "no needles policy":
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-cannot-use-spo...
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