Wiggins - could this be a Similar issue as Lance A ?
Discussion
El stovey said:
Granfondo said:
Totally agree ,why can't people see or understand that it's not the fact he had a TUE it's the fact he didn't NEED the TUE that's the cheating!
Presumably WADA or whoever are going to take away his yellow jersey now that this is apparently a fact? Again what has he done illegal? You keep saying he has but don't seem to be able to say what. It looks like you're just stating your opinion as fact?
There's lots of murky stuff going on here but I haven't seen any actually evidence of anything illegal going on. I don't know either way if he's done anything illegal but you keep stating he has, without being able to give any evidence whatsoever. Apologies if you actually know that he didn't need a TUE, or it's actually been proven as fact.
Edited by El stovey on Saturday 11th March 07:23
It remains to be seen if the authorities take a view like yours, or one that is incredibly coincidental re the use of and the timing of the TUE's. If they have any intentions at all of cleaning up the 'sport' and clear some of the 'murkiness' then there is only one cocnlsucion they can arrive to. Cheating. Blatant Cheating, dressed up as medicinal treatment.
epom said:
El stovey said:
Granfondo said:
Totally agree ,why can't people see or understand that it's not the fact he had a TUE it's the fact he didn't NEED the TUE that's the cheating!
Presumably WADA or whoever are going to take away his yellow jersey now that this is apparently a fact? Again what has he done illegal? You keep saying he has but don't seem to be able to say what. It looks like you're just stating your opinion as fact?
There's lots of murky stuff going on here but I haven't seen any actually evidence of anything illegal going on. I don't know either way if he's done anything illegal but you keep stating he has, without being able to give any evidence whatsoever. Apologies if you actually know that he didn't need a TUE, or it's actually been proven as fact.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 11th March 07:23
It remains to be seen if the authorities take a view like yours, or one that is incredibly coincidental re the use of and the timing of the TUE's. If they have any intentions at all of cleaning up the 'sport' and clear some of the 'murkiness' then there is only one cocnlsucion they can arrive to. Cheating. Blatant Cheating, dressed up as medicinal treatment.
You can't have a system though where TUEs are granted and then you have.a whispering campaign of people saying that the rider didn't need it or shouldn't have been granted it.
The problem is compounded as SKY have made a great song and dance about doing it clean but have played right up to the line of what's legal. Anything else is yet unproven.
El stovey said:
...Having approved TUEs to me isn't doping. If there aren't proper checks as to whether a rider needs a TUE then either don't grant it or make the system more robust and make it harder to get a TUE.
...
The problem is compounded as SKY have made a great song and dance about doing it clean but have played right up to the line of what's legal. Anything else is yet unproven.
Sky knew what they were doing with the application for a TUE. My concern now is there's a story doing the rounds that Brailsford asked a journalist if "there's anything we can do" to make the bad headlines go away. Which hints at greasing the palms along the way. Did they grease the TUE process? Is this like Armstrong in that it's not just using illegal (in competition) drugs to get an advantage AND corruption with the sports authorities......
The problem is compounded as SKY have made a great song and dance about doing it clean but have played right up to the line of what's legal. Anything else is yet unproven.
Jimboka said:
Granfondo said:
Kawasicki said:
"I have asthma"
"maybe professional cycling isn't for you"
Just making it "a level playing field" "maybe professional cycling isn't for you"
Just to be certain, Sky asked for the TUE, the UCI/WADA allowed the TUE.
The authorities know the effects of said medical treatment, nobody is contesting that Wiggins didn't have allergies and asthma.
The only question is whether the treatment is proportional, which should really be covered by the TUE process and the authorities.
Unless any evidence of conspiracy is found it's really a question of trying to guess what was going on in the heads of the team doctor and the athlete. Ergo it is unknowable.
It could have been a question of selecting a treatment that sorted allergies in one shot and then forget about it or a cynical attempt to play the rules.
My personal belief is that the gains from that treatment were pretty marginal Wiggins won the TDF by a mile and plenty of other top tier races 2012 without any TUE.
Until somebody does some double blind trials on elite athletes with substances routinely used in TUEs we won't know whether they are a massive booster a marginal or even a net negative in the case of this treatment.
It should be noted that dopers using this drug combined it with anabolic steroids and EPO, on its own it could actually waste your muscles.
The authorities know the effects of said medical treatment, nobody is contesting that Wiggins didn't have allergies and asthma.
The only question is whether the treatment is proportional, which should really be covered by the TUE process and the authorities.
Unless any evidence of conspiracy is found it's really a question of trying to guess what was going on in the heads of the team doctor and the athlete. Ergo it is unknowable.
It could have been a question of selecting a treatment that sorted allergies in one shot and then forget about it or a cynical attempt to play the rules.
My personal belief is that the gains from that treatment were pretty marginal Wiggins won the TDF by a mile and plenty of other top tier races 2012 without any TUE.
Until somebody does some double blind trials on elite athletes with substances routinely used in TUEs we won't know whether they are a massive booster a marginal or even a net negative in the case of this treatment.
It should be noted that dopers using this drug combined it with anabolic steroids and EPO, on its own it could actually waste your muscles.
Granfondo said:
okgo said:
Literally in stitches at the fanbois on here.
I remember the Lance fanboys saying the exact same thing about the most tested man on the planet and never having failed a test!Missing tests
Testimony from other riders
Donations to the UCI
Testimony from team mates and team members
Association with banned doping doctor.
There is no evidence suggesting Wiggins has been doping.
Is it just the TUE that you lot are unhappy about or do you actually think SKY were doping? Seems a bit odd all the laughing at fans but not providing any evidence circumstantial or otherwise.
At least with lance, there was loads of evidence. Contador even tested positive and had all sorts of other evidence of cheating,
To me, saying you want to see more evidence of Wiggins cheating before believing it,isn't the same as ignoring the mountain of evidence against Armstrong.
I'm not a Wiggins or sky fan, one has retired and the other is a satellite company sponsoring a Kenyan. I'd just like to see more evidence before joining the hang em high, mini bandwagon forming,
At least with lance, there was loads of evidence. Contador even tested positive and had all sorts of other evidence of cheating,
To me, saying you want to see more evidence of Wiggins cheating before believing it,isn't the same as ignoring the mountain of evidence against Armstrong.
I'm not a Wiggins or sky fan, one has retired and the other is a satellite company sponsoring a Kenyan. I'd just like to see more evidence before joining the hang em high, mini bandwagon forming,
The parallels with Armstrong and US Postal are quite strong Like US Postal it's the drip drip effect, the half truths, the lies, a team that prides itself on attention to detail, but lose laptops with medical records and between apparently intelligent people not knowing what's in a package which has been driven half way across France as a special delivery. When people lie it's generally to hide an unpalatable truth.
Talksteer said:
..nobody is contesting that Wiggins didn't have allergies and asthma...
...
I am. Too many "professional cyclists" have "excercised induced asthma" Which bugs the f...
k out of me, cause I get out of breath riding up big hills. Yet I don't think I have asthma... Talksteer said:
My personal belief is that the gains from that treatment were pretty marginal Wiggins won the TDF by a mile and plenty of other top tier races 2012 without any TUE.
Then why take it at all? If it ahs such a minimal effect.Talksteer said:
..It should be noted that dopers using this drug combined it with anabolic steroids and EPO, on its own it could actually waste your muscles.
Citation required.El stovey said:
Is it just the TUE that you lot are unhappy about or do you actually think SKY were doping? Seems a bit odd all the laughing at fans but not providing any evidence circumstantial or otherwise.
I think the TUE is the first actual evidence of wrong doing. I could understand the negative comments before when they were winning stuff. But there was nothing to back it up.I don't think Wiggins track stuff is affected by all this though. The very nature of grand tours being so stressful to the body is what prompts people to consider alternative methods to address it. Hour records or even 1 day classics don't require the same stamina.
mcelliott said:
The parallels with Armstrong and US Postal are quite strong Like US Postal it's the drip drip effect, the half truths, the lies, a team that prides itself on attention to detail, but lose laptops with medical records and between apparently intelligent people not knowing what's in a package which has been driven half way across France as a special delivery. When people lie it's generally to hide an unpalatable truth.
The problem with the TUE system is that it belongs in the health and safety category, and is therefore beyond criticism.
Personally I think it is the biggest pile of excrement ever. I've done a little bit of running...sometimes I even won races, usually I had to push myself stupidly hard to do that. This sometimes resulted in me wheezing and having really sore lungs for about ten days. Exercise induced asthma? No, just rattled lungs. Bet I could have a TUE of the back of that wheezing though.
Personally I think it is the biggest pile of excrement ever. I've done a little bit of running...sometimes I even won races, usually I had to push myself stupidly hard to do that. This sometimes resulted in me wheezing and having really sore lungs for about ten days. Exercise induced asthma? No, just rattled lungs. Bet I could have a TUE of the back of that wheezing though.
El stovey said:
There was loads of evidence pointing to Armstrong doping.
Missing tests
Testimony from other riders
Donations to the UCI
Testimony from team mates and team members
Association with banned doping doctor.
There is no evidence suggesting Wiggins has been doping.
Missed tests http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/racing/bradley... - after slating others for doing it, standard tMissing tests
Testimony from other riders
Donations to the UCI
Testimony from team mates and team members
Association with banned doping doctor.
There is no evidence suggesting Wiggins has been doping.
t behaviour.Froome and Millar have come out against it right?
Doctor - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jan/22/geer...
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