Wiggins - could this be a Similar issue as Lance A ?
Discussion
Brads67 said:
Had a look at the site and it smacks of Russian state sponsored sour grape tbh,
It basically lists all the LEGAL use of medicines by various sports folk.
Bit of a non event really.
Exactly. Legal use exemptions. Nothing illegal going on. Published by Russians who were sponsoring actual cheating. It basically lists all the LEGAL use of medicines by various sports folk.
Bit of a non event really.
TUEs have been around for ages, it's like this is some kind of revelation to some people.
pablo said:
Rich_W said:
mcelliott said:
Bit one sided. I don't mind people critiquing the guy. But try and be a journalist. David Walsh has been tweeting his thoughts the last few days.
Edited by Granfondo on Sunday 25th September 15:26
el stovey said:
Brads67 said:
Had a look at the site and it smacks of Russian state sponsored sour grape tbh,
It basically lists all the LEGAL use of medicines by various sports folk.
Bit of a non event really.
Exactly. Legal use exemptions. Nothing illegal going on. Published by Russians who were sponsoring actual cheating. It basically lists all the LEGAL use of medicines by various sports folk.
Bit of a non event really.
TUEs have been around for ages, it's like this is some kind of revelation to some people.
MarshPhantom said:
el stovey said:
Brads67 said:
Had a look at the site and it smacks of Russian state sponsored sour grape tbh,
It basically lists all the LEGAL use of medicines by various sports folk.
Bit of a non event really.
Exactly. Legal use exemptions. Nothing illegal going on. Published by Russians who were sponsoring actual cheating. It basically lists all the LEGAL use of medicines by various sports folk.
Bit of a non event really.
TUEs have been around for ages, it's like this is some kind of revelation to some people.
el stovey said:
Because you don't give away information about your legal advantages, doctors, psychologists, technology, training methods, facilities coaches etc to the opposition,
What about taking a performance enhancing drug? For a team that prides itself on transparency http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-says-...
mcelliott said:
el stovey said:
Because you don't give away information about your legal advantages, doctors, psychologists, technology, training methods, facilities coaches etc to the opposition,
What about taking a performance enhancing drug? For a team that prides itself on transparency http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-says-...
They're not cheating in any way. Everything they do is about enhancing performance. That's what marginal gains is about. Legally enhancing performance in every possible aspect.
What next? Complaints about them having better coaches or a bigger budget or better team buses.
your quoted article said:
There is no suggestion that either Wiggins or Team Sky have broken any rules and the Briton's TUE was approved by the UCI doctor at the time.
Edited by el stovey on Sunday 25th September 16:00
el stovey said:
Because you don't give away information about your legal advantages, doctors, psychologists, technology, training methods, facilities coaches etc to the opposition,
There's no doubt about the performance enhancing nature of the injections (you or I would need to be in hospital to get the same drugs) and the timing before the 2 big tours is very convenient.Strictly speaking it's legal but given the recent history of cycling and the pedestal SKY have put themselves on they deserve all the stick they are getting.
el stovey said:
WestyCarl said:
Strictly speaking it's legal but given the recent history of cycling and the pedestal SKY have put themselves on they deserve all the stick they are getting.
Why strictly speaking? It's completely legal. There's nothing illegal about it. el stovey said:
WestyCarl said:
Strictly speaking it's legal but given the recent history of cycling and the pedestal SKY have put themselves on they deserve all the stick they are getting.
Why strictly speaking? It's completely legal. There's nothing illegal about it. mcelliott said:
So taking a performance enhancing drug and then lying about it, is ok with you? Wiggins and Brailsford both stated, repeatedly, that the Tour was won clean, when the facts suggest that it wasn't. They both lied.
Caffeine is a performance enhancing drug at high doses. I suspect they failed to disclose coffee use as well. mcelliott said:
el stovey said:
WestyCarl said:
Strictly speaking it's legal but given the recent history of cycling and the pedestal SKY have put themselves on they deserve all the stick they are getting.
Why strictly speaking? It's completely legal. There's nothing illegal about it. el stovey said:
Where did they lie? Is riding with a legal TUE doping? If you've got a legal approved exemption that's doing it clean isn't it?
Sorry, riding with a performance enhancing drug in your system is not clean. An asthma sufferer all his life, yet these injections only came on the eve of Grand Tours that he'd targeted.el stovey said:
mcelliott said:
el stovey said:
WestyCarl said:
Strictly speaking it's legal but given the recent history of cycling and the pedestal SKY have put themselves on they deserve all the stick they are getting.
Why strictly speaking? It's completely legal. There's nothing illegal about it. mcelliott said:
el stovey said:
Where did they lie? Is riding with a legal TUE doping? If you've got a legal approved exemption that's doing it clean isn't it?
Sorry, riding with a performance enhancing drug in your system is not clean. An asthma sufferer all his life, yet these injections only came on the eve of Grand Tours that he'd targeted.If it wasn't clean, this revelation would have him banned and handing back his jerseys and medals.
el stovey said:
mcelliott said:
el stovey said:
Where did they lie? Is riding with a legal TUE doping? If you've got a legal approved exemption that's doing it clean isn't it?
Sorry, riding with a performance enhancing drug in your system is not clean. An asthma sufferer all his life, yet these injections only came on the eve of Grand Tours that he'd targeted.If it wasn't clean, this revelation would have him banned and handing back his jerseys and medals.
TUEs are ok if you are sick in the first place!
Why wasn't he using an inhaler like most athsmatics?
Granfondo said:
el stovey said:
mcelliott said:
el stovey said:
WestyCarl said:
Strictly speaking it's legal but given the recent history of cycling and the pedestal SKY have put themselves on they deserve all the stick they are getting.
Why strictly speaking? It's completely legal. There's nothing illegal about it. the bbc said:
In his 2012 book My Time, Wiggins said he had "never had an injection, apart from I've had my vaccinations, and on occasion I've been put on a drip, when I've come down with diarrhoea or something or have been severely dehydrated".
In a statement, Wiggins' spokesman said his comments in the book referred to the "historic and illegal practice of intravenous injections of performance-enhancing substances, which was the subject of a law change by [cycling's governing body] the UCI in 2011".
"The triamcinolone injection that is referred to in the Wada leaks is an intramuscular treatment for asthma and is fully approved by the sport's governing bodies."
In a statement, Wiggins' spokesman said his comments in the book referred to the "historic and illegal practice of intravenous injections of performance-enhancing substances, which was the subject of a law change by [cycling's governing body] the UCI in 2011".
"The triamcinolone injection that is referred to in the Wada leaks is an intramuscular treatment for asthma and is fully approved by the sport's governing bodies."
Obviously he's been economical with the truth here but I still don't think this is classed as doping or cheating.
Clearly what he should have said was.
"never had an injection, apart from I've had my vaccinations, and on occasion I've been put on a drip, when I've come down with diarrhoea or something or have been severely dehydrated and the stuff I injected legally as part of those temporary usage exemptions I had. ".
Granfondo said:
I think the question we should all be asking is , Did he really need that type of treatment for "allergies" ?
I don't know? Why do you think he didn't? The important thing to me is that the regulator thinks he did and gave him the use exemption.Presumably if they are handing out exemptions willy nilly for everything, then everyone would be using them and there wouldn't be any issue.
Granfondo said:
I think the question we should all be asking is , Did he really need that type of treatment for "allergies" ?
This. If he genuinely was needing them then fine. But this line about how he's always had Asthma and always needed something is potentially damning given he didn't have it at other teams. The strong suspicion is that he wanted to go into those specific races in the best shape he could be. And to guarantee that, they (mis)used the TUE system.
And of course theres a reason he went on the Andrew Marr show as opposed to something a bit more aggressive. MArr will know next to fk all about the intricacies of Therapeutic Use Exemptions!
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