Wiggins - could this be a Similar issue as Lance A ?

[yellowjack]

JuniorD said:

In the past the might have been the odd transition day were things were taken easy, but modern days it’s full on racing most of the time. An “easy day” will still average well over 30mph. These guys don’t mess around.

"easy days well over 30 mph" you say?

I think you're a bit off there.

Between 1903 and Bradley Wiggins' win in 2012, the three FASTEST road stages on the Tour de France were...

30.706 mph (49.417 kph) Evreux-Amiens(153 km) in 1993 by Johan Bruyneel.
31.030 mph (49.938 kph) Bordeaux-Saint Maixent l'Ecole (203.5 km) in 2003 by Pablo Lastras.
31.289 mph (50.355 kph) Laval-Bois (191 km) in 1999by Mario Cipollini.

Fastest individual time trial (over 20 km) was Greg LeMond over 24.5 km in 1989 at 33.892 mph

Fastest team time trial was Team Discovery Channel over 67.5 km in 2005 at 35.619 mph

Apologies for mixing miles and kms, but I'm not going to convert them all.

Average speed of the Tour winner in 1903 was 15.955 mph, over 'only' 2428 km. This speed broadly increased, along with the distance, until 1914 when Philippe Thys of Belgium won over 5405 km at 16.752 mph. Tour winning average speeds then fell away when the tour came back in 1919, staying around 24/25 kph (15/15.5 mph) for the next seven years. Then came a sharp increase in average speeds, and then a plateau at about 32 kph (nearly 20 mph) until 1939. The general trend thereafter was faster, with a few fast spikes, and a couple of slower results, but by 1981 Bernard Hinault took the tour up to 39 kph (over 24 mph) over a race distance of 3757 km for the first time. there are seven tours (up to 2012) with winning average speeds over 40 kph (24.85 mph), but perhaps not surprisingly, five of those are recorded as having "no winner" due to disqualifications.

Oscar Pereiro (2006) at 40.781 kph (25.340 mph) over 3657 km, and Alberto Contador (2009) at 40.315 kph (25.050 mph) over 3459.5 km are the only two results faster than 40 kph that still stand. The shortest TdF by distance was the first, in 1903 at 2428 km, longest was 1926 at 5745 km.

Due to the differences in distance, elevation, and the drugs of choice for any given year I think it's near impossible to compare one TdF result to another. but after 21 years during which the winning speed was 38.7 kph (24 mph) or faster, it's interesting to note that Bradley Wiggins' winning speed in 2012 was a comparatively pedestrian 34.9 kph (21.69 mph). So perhaps that was a clean(er) TdF after all?

Those spottery numbers come courtesy of a book called 'TOUR DE FRANCE - Official 100th Race Anniversary Edition'. I didn't collate them myself, and can't help with info on the amount of climbing in each edition of the race.

The 1903 TdF in Bordeaux...


Drugs are nothing new in Le tour. Tobacco in 1927...


As the technology has improved with lighter, more aerodynamic bikes with a wider range of gears, so the TdF has gotten easier. It hasn't been longer than 3,700 km since 1999...


...and back in the early days, there were no team cars and riders had to be entirely self supporting, even as far as being able to weld/braze a repair to a set of broken forks. Even if they found a forge, they had to persuade the Smith to let them repair their own bike. All done on two gears too, with a gear change meaning dropping the wheel out and swapping sides. Bonkers now, compared with electronic gearing and carbon fibre frames, with neutral service wheel swaps, and complete spare bikes.

Little wonder Octave Lapize was reported to have yelled "Vous êtes des assassins! Oui, des assassins!' on the ascent of the Col du Tourmalet in the 1910 Tour. Gustave Garrigou was the only cyclist who reached the top without dismounting in that race, and he received an extra prize of 100 francs for his efforts...

[anonymous-user]

yellowjack said:

"easy days well over 30 mph" you say?

I think you're a bit off there.

Between 1903 and Bradley Wiggins' win in 2012, the three FASTEST road stages on the Tour de France were...

30.706 mph (49.417 kph) Evreux-Amiens(153 km) in 1993 by Johan Bruyneel.
31.030 mph (49.938 kph) Bordeaux-Saint Maixent l'Ecole (203.5 km) in 2003 by Pablo Lastras.
31.289 mph (50.355 kph) Laval-Bois (191 km) in 1999by Mario Cipollini.

Just to add a little extra weight to your point, 2 of the 3 you identified were found to be dopers...

[Woody John]

OpulentBob said:

yellowjack said:

"easy days well over 30 mph" you say?

I think you're a bit off there.

Between 1903 and Bradley Wiggins' win in 2012, the three FASTEST road stages on the Tour de France were...

30.706 mph (49.417 kph) Evreux-Amiens(153 km) in 1993 by Johan Bruyneel.
31.030 mph (49.938 kph) Bordeaux-Saint Maixent l'Ecole (203.5 km) in 2003 by Pablo Lastras.
31.289 mph (50.355 kph) Laval-Bois (191 km) in 1999by Mario Cipollini.

Just to add a little extra weight to your point, 2 of the 3 you identified were found to be dopers...

You may be surprised how little effort it takes to roll along in the peleton at such speeds.
These guys have 'ring craft'.

[mcelliott]

Woody John said:

OpulentBob said:

yellowjack said:

"easy days well over 30 mph" you say?

I think you're a bit off there.

Between 1903 and Bradley Wiggins' win in 2012, the three FASTEST road stages on the Tour de France were...

30.706 mph (49.417 kph) Evreux-Amiens(153 km) in 1993 by Johan Bruyneel.
31.030 mph (49.938 kph) Bordeaux-Saint Maixent l'Ecole (203.5 km) in 2003 by Pablo Lastras.
31.289 mph (50.355 kph) Laval-Bois (191 km) in 1999by Mario Cipollini.

Just to add a little extra weight to your point, 2 of the 3 you identified were found to be dopers...

You may be surprised how little effort it takes to roll along in the peleton at such speeds.
These guys have 'ring craft'.

Whats ring craft?

[pc.iow]

mcelliott said:

Woody John said:

OpulentBob said:

yellowjack said:

"easy days well over 30 mph" you say?

I think you're a bit off there.

Between 1903 and Bradley Wiggins' win in 2012, the three FASTEST road stages on the Tour de France were...

30.706 mph (49.417 kph) Evreux-Amiens(153 km) in 1993 by Johan Bruyneel.
31.030 mph (49.938 kph) Bordeaux-Saint Maixent l'Ecole (203.5 km) in 2003 by Pablo Lastras.
31.289 mph (50.355 kph) Laval-Bois (191 km) in 1999by Mario Cipollini.

Just to add a little extra weight to your point, 2 of the 3 you identified were found to be dopers...

You may be surprised how little effort it takes to roll along in the peleton at such speeds.
These guys have 'ring craft'.

Whats ring craft?

Drugs up ya bum?

[Kawasicki]

So maybe I could tag along in a TDF!

[mcelliott]

Kawasicki said:

So maybe I could tag along in a TDF!

Yeah piece of piss, they just roll along at 50kph..

[AndStilliRise]

Having tried staying with groups on the tour of Cambridge, I can assure you it is not that easy. No amateur rider will be able to live with the pace. It's a bit like saying that you could keep up with Lewis Hamilton in a similar gokart.

There is a reason why they are called professional riders.

[Digger]

Was sometimes a bit tricky when just a lowly Cat 3

[mcelliott]

Just watching the Gent-Wevelgem, lined out at 52kph and people getting shelled out the back.. wtf is wrong with these blokes!

[Woody John]

pc.iow said:

mcelliott said:

Woody John said:

OpulentBob said:

yellowjack said:

"easy days well over 30 mph" you say?

I think you're a bit off there.

Between 1903 and Bradley Wiggins' win in 2012, the three FASTEST road stages on the Tour de France were...

30.706 mph (49.417 kph) Evreux-Amiens(153 km) in 1993 by Johan Bruyneel.
31.030 mph (49.938 kph) Bordeaux-Saint Maixent l'Ecole (203.5 km) in 2003 by Pablo Lastras.
31.289 mph (50.355 kph) Laval-Bois (191 km) in 1999by Mario Cipollini.

Just to add a little extra weight to your point, 2 of the 3 you identified were found to be dopers...

You may be surprised how little effort it takes to roll along in the peleton at such speeds.
These guys have 'ring craft'.

Whats ring craft?

Drugs up ya bum?

Tactical skill and positioning.
For years Lance was surrounded by the postal train and they worked like dogs to ensure he saved all his energy for 3/4 tour winning stages.
That and whats looking more and more likely a motor in his Trek!

[epom]

Woody John said:

pc.iow said:

mcelliott said:

Woody John said:

OpulentBob said:

yellowjack said:

"easy days well over 30 mph" you say?

I think you're a bit off there.

Between 1903 and Bradley Wiggins' win in 2012, the three FASTEST road stages on the Tour de France were...

30.706 mph (49.417 kph) Evreux-Amiens(153 km) in 1993 by Johan Bruyneel.
31.030 mph (49.938 kph) Bordeaux-Saint Maixent l'Ecole (203.5 km) in 2003 by Pablo Lastras.
31.289 mph (50.355 kph) Laval-Bois (191 km) in 1999by Mario Cipollini.

Just to add a little extra weight to your point, 2 of the 3 you identified were found to be dopers...

You may be surprised how little effort it takes to roll along in the peleton at such speeds.
These guys have 'ring craft'.

Whats ring craft?

Drugs up ya bum?

Tactical skill and positioning.
For years Lance was surrounded by the postal train and they worked like dogs to ensure he saved all his energy for 3/4 tour winning stages.
That and whats looking more and more likely a motor in his Trek!

So how are these modern guys able to do it as well if not faster, clean ? Genuine question.

[popeyewhite]

Woody John said:

pc.iow said:

mcelliott said:

Woody John said:

OpulentBob said:

yellowjack said:

"easy days well over 30 mph" you say?

I think you're a bit off there.

Between 1903 and Bradley Wiggins' win in 2012, the three FASTEST road stages on the Tour de France were...

30.706 mph (49.417 kph) Evreux-Amiens(153 km) in 1993 by Johan Bruyneel.
31.030 mph (49.938 kph) Bordeaux-Saint Maixent l'Ecole (203.5 km) in 2003 by Pablo Lastras.
31.289 mph (50.355 kph) Laval-Bois (191 km) in 1999by Mario Cipollini.

Just to add a little extra weight to your point, 2 of the 3 you identified were found to be dopers...

You may be surprised how little effort it takes to roll along in the peleton at such speeds.
These guys have 'ring craft'.

Whats ring craft?

Drugs up ya bum?

Tactical skill and positioning.

In a boxing ring. Hence 'ring' in "ring craft". The term covers defensive movements, movements designed to diffuse an opponents attack etc etc it does cover tactical skill and positioning but from the perspective of winning a fight - it has nothing to do with cycling.

[Woody John]

epom said:

Woody John said:

pc.iow said:

mcelliott said:

Woody John said:

OpulentBob said:

yellowjack said:

"easy days well over 30 mph" you say?

I think you're a bit off there.

Between 1903 and Bradley Wiggins' win in 2012, the three FASTEST road stages on the Tour de France were...

30.706 mph (49.417 kph) Evreux-Amiens(153 km) in 1993 by Johan Bruyneel.
31.030 mph (49.938 kph) Bordeaux-Saint Maixent l'Ecole (203.5 km) in 2003 by Pablo Lastras.
31.289 mph (50.355 kph) Laval-Bois (191 km) in 1999by Mario Cipollini.

Just to add a little extra weight to your point, 2 of the 3 you identified were found to be dopers...

You may be surprised how little effort it takes to roll along in the peleton at such speeds.
These guys have 'ring craft'.

Whats ring craft?

Drugs up ya bum?

Tactical skill and positioning.
For years Lance was surrounded by the postal train and they worked like dogs to ensure he saved all his energy for 3/4 tour winning stages.
That and whats looking more and more likely a motor in his Trek!

So how are these modern guys able to do it as well if not faster, clean ? Genuine question.

What makes you think they are clean?

[Woody John]

popeyewhite said:

Woody John said:

pc.iow said:

mcelliott said:

Woody John said:

OpulentBob said:

yellowjack said:

"easy days well over 30 mph" you say?

I think you're a bit off there.

Between 1903 and Bradley Wiggins' win in 2012, the three FASTEST road stages on the Tour de France were...

30.706 mph (49.417 kph) Evreux-Amiens(153 km) in 1993 by Johan Bruyneel.
31.030 mph (49.938 kph) Bordeaux-Saint Maixent l'Ecole (203.5 km) in 2003 by Pablo Lastras.
31.289 mph (50.355 kph) Laval-Bois (191 km) in 1999by Mario Cipollini.

Just to add a little extra weight to your point, 2 of the 3 you identified were found to be dopers...

You may be surprised how little effort it takes to roll along in the peleton at such speeds.
These guys have 'ring craft'.

Whats ring craft?

Drugs up ya bum?

Tactical skill and positioning.

In a boxing ring. Hence 'ring' in "ring craft". The term covers defensive movements, movements designed to diffuse an opponents attack etc etc it does cover tactical skill and positioning but from the perspective of winning a fight - it has nothing to do with cycling.

Of course it is a boxing term, hence the commas

[popeyewhite]

Woody John said:

popeyewhite said:

Woody John said:

pc.iow said:

mcelliott said:

Woody John said:

OpulentBob said:

yellowjack said:

"easy days well over 30 mph" you say?

I think you're a bit off there.

Between 1903 and Bradley Wiggins' win in 2012, the three FASTEST road stages on the Tour de France were...

30.706 mph (49.417 kph) Evreux-Amiens(153 km) in 1993 by Johan Bruyneel.
31.030 mph (49.938 kph) Bordeaux-Saint Maixent l'Ecole (203.5 km) in 2003 by Pablo Lastras.
31.289 mph (50.355 kph) Laval-Bois (191 km) in 1999by Mario Cipollini.

Just to add a little extra weight to your point, 2 of the 3 you identified were found to be dopers...

You may be surprised how little effort it takes to roll along in the peleton at such speeds.
These guys have 'ring craft'.

Whats ring craft?

Drugs up ya bum?

Tactical skill and positioning.

In a boxing ring. Hence 'ring' in "ring craft". The term covers defensive movements, movements designed to diffuse an opponents attack etc etc it does cover tactical skill and positioning but from the perspective of winning a fight - it has nothing to do with cycling.

Of course it is a boxing term, hence the commas

Hence it's not tactical "skill and positioning" in a peleton then.
BTW you mean apostrophes, this (,) is a comma.

[Woody John]

popeyewhite said:

Woody John said:

popeyewhite said:

Woody John said:

pc.iow said:

mcelliott said:

Woody John said:

OpulentBob said:

yellowjack said:

"easy days well over 30 mph" you say?

I think you're a bit off there.

Between 1903 and Bradley Wiggins' win in 2012, the three FASTEST road stages on the Tour de France were...

30.706 mph (49.417 kph) Evreux-Amiens(153 km) in 1993 by Johan Bruyneel.
31.030 mph (49.938 kph) Bordeaux-Saint Maixent l'Ecole (203.5 km) in 2003 by Pablo Lastras.
31.289 mph (50.355 kph) Laval-Bois (191 km) in 1999by Mario Cipollini.

Just to add a little extra weight to your point, 2 of the 3 you identified were found to be dopers...

You may be surprised how little effort it takes to roll along in the peleton at such speeds.
These guys have 'ring craft'.

Whats ring craft?

Drugs up ya bum?

Tactical skill and positioning.

In a boxing ring. Hence 'ring' in "ring craft". The term covers defensive movements, movements designed to diffuse an opponents attack etc etc it does cover tactical skill and positioning but from the perspective of winning a fight - it has nothing to do with cycling.

Of course it is a boxing term, hence the commas

Hence it's not tactical "skill and positioning" in a peleton then.
BTW you mean apostrophes, this (,) is a comma.

Yawn.

[popeyewhite]

Woody John said:

Yawn.

A bit past your bedtime is it? Diddums.

[Woody John]

popeyewhite said:

Woody John said:

Yawn.

A bit past your bedtime is it? Diddums.

More so a consequence of your patter.

[Get Karter]

Inverted commas.