2017 Six Nations
Discussion
Having A Barth said:
Great game of rugby, one loose kick being all the difference really. Heroic defense by both teams and good attacking rugby all round.
England's bench is mighty but surely given how impressive George, Te'o and Haskell were when they came on they have to at least start the next game against Italy. Got nothing but admiration for Jones, he's taken the England Team from a bunch of nearly men onto a real force to be reckoned with again. A shame we don't have a fixture against the All Blacks anytime soon as I think it'd be pretty close for a change.
Looking forwards to Scotland vs. France today, I wonder if Scotland will be able to cope with the French heavies.
Haskell was so so close to a yellow. England's bench is mighty but surely given how impressive George, Te'o and Haskell were when they came on they have to at least start the next game against Italy. Got nothing but admiration for Jones, he's taken the England Team from a bunch of nearly men onto a real force to be reckoned with again. A shame we don't have a fixture against the All Blacks anytime soon as I think it'd be pretty close for a change.
Looking forwards to Scotland vs. France today, I wonder if Scotland will be able to cope with the French heavies.
A poor kick decision
A give away line out
A high tackle
Subbing Moriarty and Webb madness Webb in total control and Moriarty IMHO the MOTM to that point.
Welshbeef said:
Haskell was so so close to a yellow.
A poor kick decision
A give away line out
A high tackle
Subbing Moriarty and Webb madness Webb in total control and Moriarty IMHO the MOTM to that point.
That was one of the daftest decisions I have ever witnessed. Moriarty was smashing England backwards at every tackle. I'm sure Gatland must have been licking his lips watching that display.A poor kick decision
A give away line out
A high tackle
Subbing Moriarty and Webb madness Webb in total control and Moriarty IMHO the MOTM to that point.
Most substitutions though these days seem to be pre-planned and it drives me nuts.
I also feel that eight substitutions is far too many. RL has it right imo, with a smaller bench and six interchanges allowed.
Enjoyed the result, game was difficult to watch as an England supporter.
Two points I'd like to add (and do think the French ref had a good game).
Why don't we have SH only referees for the 6 nations.
How long will it be before a Scots or Welsh player gets a yellow for trying too hard to influence the referee.
Two points I'd like to add (and do think the French ref had a good game).
Why don't we have SH only referees for the 6 nations.
How long will it be before a Scots or Welsh player gets a yellow for trying too hard to influence the referee.
Welshbeef said:
Subbing Moriarty and Webb madness Webb in total control and Moriarty IMHO the MOTM to that point.
Fully agree. Why is it that coaches these days seem unable to play beyond their starting plan?OK, I get that some of the players - especially the front row - are pretty much designed and built to only last 60 minutes these days, but especially when they've got next weekend off, why not start out with the idea of "get out there and force me to leave you on for eighty minutes"?
I was quite surprised when Jones pulled Hartley off after only 45 minutes yesterday, but it was the right thing to do, and Jamie George stepped the pace up. Likewise, when Danny Care came on, the distribution went up a notch, and Ben T'eo added massively! England players have the luxury of knowing they can turn themselves inside out for an hour then pass the baton to an equally strong replacement, but they've also got the knowledge that Eddie Jones isn't going to yank them off just "because".
Howley, on the other hand, looked like a kid who had been given the answers to his exam questions, written them on his arm, discovered that the school had changed the paper, but still answered with the same questions anyway!
Speaking as an Englishman, I'd love to see Eddie Jones not use the whole bench for a couple of matches. That would send out one hell of a message... "we've got probably the best strength in depth in World rugby, but out starters are so strong, we didn't even need to use all the depth".
The other obvious issue with using up your bench according to a plan is what happens if you get an injury after you've put your whole bench on through tactical substitutions?
Twice this season, Adam Jones has been subbed on for Quins inside the first 15 minutes because of injuries to other props and played 65+ minutes as a sub. What would've happened if they'd picked up those injuries 15 minutes into the second half after tactical substitutions had already been made? They'd have been stuck at 14 men for the rest of the match.
Worth noting as well, btw, that the second of those two Jones substitution appearances was probably the best rugby performance by a Welshman in years! It's not all that common for a sub to win man of the match at the best of times, but for a distinctly aging prop to do it from the wrong side of the scrum when he wasn't even in the match day squad when he got out of bed that morning is rather impressive!
I've just watched the Daly try again - I felt I had to - and then the post match bit which I'd missed yesterday.
Cuthbert, I think it was, was poorly positioned and slow to react. Daly picked up on the first.
As for the loose kick, Biggar was slow to return to his spot. It had been a hard match for him and perhaps too much so given his injuries.
I was surprised by the stats, showing virtually 50% possession. I thought it more like 60:40 in favour of Wales.
Glad to see Launchbury get MotM. He was at my lad's team, Worthing, as a youth and it was apparent, even to me, that he was a bit of quality. He's just 25. I've followed his career and he seems to get better and better. One of the old guys at Worthing reckoned, when JL was 14/15, that he'd be England captain. Not sure I'd agree as he's a bit taciturn and a captain should give the ref an ear bashing all through the match.
I could never make up my mind where he played best, flanker or #4 but I think after yesterday I've decided that I'm with the coach.
Had a couple to texts from Welsh friends this morning. They are hurting and not only from hangovers. Some criticisms of the ref, but I thought he had a good match. Not really noticeable and that's always the sign of the best refs.
That's a long run of success from England. Very impressive. They are, inevitably of course, heading for a fall but that's rugby. I've gone from wondering if we could win the next match to wondering which team's going to get lucky.
Well payed both sides. Wales put everything into every aspect of play and I think that might have told at the end.
Cuthbert, I think it was, was poorly positioned and slow to react. Daly picked up on the first.
As for the loose kick, Biggar was slow to return to his spot. It had been a hard match for him and perhaps too much so given his injuries.
I was surprised by the stats, showing virtually 50% possession. I thought it more like 60:40 in favour of Wales.
Glad to see Launchbury get MotM. He was at my lad's team, Worthing, as a youth and it was apparent, even to me, that he was a bit of quality. He's just 25. I've followed his career and he seems to get better and better. One of the old guys at Worthing reckoned, when JL was 14/15, that he'd be England captain. Not sure I'd agree as he's a bit taciturn and a captain should give the ref an ear bashing all through the match.
I could never make up my mind where he played best, flanker or #4 but I think after yesterday I've decided that I'm with the coach.
Had a couple to texts from Welsh friends this morning. They are hurting and not only from hangovers. Some criticisms of the ref, but I thought he had a good match. Not really noticeable and that's always the sign of the best refs.
That's a long run of success from England. Very impressive. They are, inevitably of course, heading for a fall but that's rugby. I've gone from wondering if we could win the next match to wondering which team's going to get lucky.
Well payed both sides. Wales put everything into every aspect of play and I think that might have told at the end.
DocJock said:
That was one of the daftest decisions I have ever witnessed. Moriarty was smashing England backwards at every tackle. I'm sure Gatland must have been licking his lips watching that display.
Most substitutions though these days seem to be pre-planned and it drives me nuts.
I also feel that eight substitutions is far too many. RL has it right imo, with a smaller bench and six interchanges allowed.
Most substitutions though these days seem to be pre-planned and it drives me nuts.
I also feel that eight substitutions is far too many. RL has it right imo, with a smaller bench and six interchanges allowed.
Moriarty is a destructive tackler, for sure. But heven made relatively few yards going forward if there's one thing an 8 should be doing, it's making yards.
Kermit power said:
Welshbeef said:
The other obvious issue with using up your bench according to a plan is what happens if you get an injury after you've put your whole bench on through tactical substitutions?
Twice this season, Adam Jones has been subbed on for Quins inside the first 15 minutes because of injuries to other props and played 65+ minutes as a sub. What would've happened if they'd picked up those injuries 15 minutes into the second half after tactical substitutions had already been made? They'd have been stuck at 14 men for the rest of the match.
Worth noting as well, btw, that the second of those two Jones substitution appearances was probably the best rugby performance by a Welshman in years! It's not all that common for a sub to win man of the match at the best of times, but for a distinctly aging prop to do it from the wrong side of the scrum when he wasn't even in the match day squad when he got out of bed that morning is rather impressive!
WRT to your example here - that'd not be a problem. Front row are allowed to go back onTwice this season, Adam Jones has been subbed on for Quins inside the first 15 minutes because of injuries to other props and played 65+ minutes as a sub. What would've happened if they'd picked up those injuries 15 minutes into the second half after tactical substitutions had already been made? They'd have been stuck at 14 men for the rest of the match.
Worth noting as well, btw, that the second of those two Jones substitution appearances was probably the best rugby performance by a Welshman in years! It's not all that common for a sub to win man of the match at the best of times, but for a distinctly aging prop to do it from the wrong side of the scrum when he wasn't even in the match day squad when he got out of bed that morning is rather impressive!
Joey Ramone said:
Moriarty is a destructive tackler, for sure. But heven made relatively few yards going forward if there's one thing an 8 should be doing, it's making yards.
Joey Ramone said:
DocJock said:
That was one of the daftest decisions I have ever witnessed. Moriarty was smashing England backwards at every tackle. I'm sure Gatland must have been licking his lips watching that display.
Most substitutions though these days seem to be pre-planned and it drives me nuts.
I also feel that eight substitutions is far too many. RL has it right imo, with a smaller bench and six interchanges allowed.
Most substitutions though these days seem to be pre-planned and it drives me nuts.
I also feel that eight substitutions is far too many. RL has it right imo, with a smaller bench and six interchanges allowed.
Moriarty is a destructive tackler, for sure. But heven made relatively few yards going forward if there's one thing an 8 should be doing, it's making yards.
Edited by DocJock on Sunday 12th February 12:34
Derek Smith said:
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As for the loose kick, Biggar was slow to return to his spot. It had been a hard match for him and perhaps too much so given his injuries.
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Agreed, Biggar was slow to get back but one thing I hadn't seen until today is Sinckler's running line effectively blocked the ideal angle for touch.As for the loose kick, Biggar was slow to return to his spot. It had been a hard match for him and perhaps too much so given his injuries.
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All little things that add up
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