2017 Six Nations
Discussion
Jones seems a bit upset.
I can see what he means about it 'not being rugby' but that's because no one thought of it before. Let's hope it doesn't become a feature of matches in the future.
O'Shea deserves credit, although it should be pointed out it failed as a tactic; they lost. But if we see a lack of rucks in the Premiership I think he should get the blame as well.
I can see what he means about it 'not being rugby' but that's because no one thought of it before. Let's hope it doesn't become a feature of matches in the future.
O'Shea deserves credit, although it should be pointed out it failed as a tactic; they lost. But if we see a lack of rucks in the Premiership I think he should get the blame as well.
Derek Smith said:
Jones seems a bit upset.
I can see what he means about it 'not being rugby' but that's because no one thought of it before. Let's hope it doesn't become a feature of matches in the future.
O'Shea deserves credit, although it should be pointed out it failed as a tactic; they lost. But if we see a lack of rucks in the Premiership I think he should get the blame as well.
I don't think it will become a big feature but it could be a useful piece of slight of hand when needed. The reason I don't think it'll become a big thing is that it won't have the shock factor again and it actually exposes the defence to a good pick and drive game: when England did that they made serious yards. I can see what he means about it 'not being rugby' but that's because no one thought of it before. Let's hope it doesn't become a feature of matches in the future.
O'Shea deserves credit, although it should be pointed out it failed as a tactic; they lost. But if we see a lack of rucks in the Premiership I think he should get the blame as well.
The counterpoint to Jones' obvious embarrassment is to ask whether he is seriously demanding that any tackle/breakdown automatically results in a ruck? Which would be bonkers.
What will most likely happen is that sides will mix it up and use it, to use another cricket reference, like a googly, sparingly and in a way to confuse. Players with possession need to be ready to see the opposition standing off and attack directly. It clearly is Rugby and any team worth it's salt ought to be able to counter it.
What will most likely happen is that sides will mix it up and use it, to use another cricket reference, like a googly, sparingly and in a way to confuse. Players with possession need to be ready to see the opposition standing off and attack directly. It clearly is Rugby and any team worth it's salt ought to be able to counter it.
basherX said:
Which is rather the point. England should come away from this stronger: it's a tough lesson and they're lucky in some senses they got to learn it against the Italians. Only time will tell if they do but at least they cam away with a bonus point win.
The trouble is its awfully late in the day to try learning when you've been developing players for their brawn while the other side have been selecting for intelligence since they were in short trousers.RichB said:
Indeed - 25 Jun 2016 - England completed a series whitewash in Australia 
And the rest of the NH? 
ninja-lewis said:
basherX said:
Which is rather the point. England should come away from this stronger: it's a tough lesson and they're lucky in some senses they got to learn it against the Italians. Only time will tell if they do but at least they cam away with a bonus point win.
The trouble is its awfully late in the day to try learning when you've been developing players for their brawn while the other side have been selecting for intelligence since they were in short trousers.ninja-lewis said:
The trouble is its awfully late in the day to try learning when you've been developing players for their brawn while the other side have been selecting for intelligence since they were in short trousers.
They are not mutually exclusive of course. England has intelligent players. The brawn is a necessity in the NH. It is, apparently, also a necessity in NZ as well. Indeed, they have rules (not laws) to cope with the size they encourage.
Leithen said:
The counterpoint to Jones' obvious embarrassment is to ask whether he is seriously demanding that any tackle/breakdown automatically results in a ruck? Which would be bonkers.
What will most likely happen is that sides will mix it up and use it, to use another cricket reference, like a googly, sparingly and in a way to confuse. Players with possession need to be ready to see the opposition standing off and attack directly. It clearly is Rugby and any team worth it's salt ought to be able to counter it.
This is the issue. Last minute drop goal attempt and suddenly the opposition are swarming about on 'your' side of the ruck, standing in between your half backs. Be interesting to see what the lawmakers say about this. I can see Jones's side of things but if you're trying to suppress the danger involved in massive men crashing into each other at speed, then depowering the ruck is a good way to go about it. But then, as he noted, you end up with Rugby League.What will most likely happen is that sides will mix it up and use it, to use another cricket reference, like a googly, sparingly and in a way to confuse. Players with possession need to be ready to see the opposition standing off and attack directly. It clearly is Rugby and any team worth it's salt ought to be able to counter it.
The whole issue is the lack of brainpower on the pitch to deal with it. The forwards were still hanging off pod style as if there was a ruck, meaning no way to distribute the ball.
So tackle, pick & go with runners close for offloads, plus scrum half that dummies and goes with supporting runners. Keep the tackle up and maul. These quickly cause big issues for the oppo who is avoiding the ruck and push you team up the field.
England's problem was not being think this out themselves, and behaving like the ruck was happening, when it wasnt.
It's hardly new Waikato Chiefs did it for a whole season 2014/15.
So tackle, pick & go with runners close for offloads, plus scrum half that dummies and goes with supporting runners. Keep the tackle up and maul. These quickly cause big issues for the oppo who is avoiding the ruck and push you team up the field.
England's problem was not being think this out themselves, and behaving like the ruck was happening, when it wasnt.
It's hardly new Waikato Chiefs did it for a whole season 2014/15.
wsurfa said:
The whole issue is the lack of brainpower on the pitch to deal with it. The forwards were still hanging off pod style as if there was a ruck, meaning no way to distribute the ball.
So tackle, pick & go with runners close for offloads, plus scrum half that dummies and goes with supporting runners. Keep the tackle up and maul. These quickly cause big issues for the oppo who is avoiding the ruck and push you team up the field.
England's problem was not being think this out themselves, and behaving like the ruck was happening, when it wasnt.
It's hardly new Waikato Chiefs did it for a whole season 2014/15.
Sure, England looked utterly bewildered by what was going on, but let's face it: it kept the game interesting and kept a weak side in it for a while but ultimately it didn't work. So tackle, pick & go with runners close for offloads, plus scrum half that dummies and goes with supporting runners. Keep the tackle up and maul. These quickly cause big issues for the oppo who is avoiding the ruck and push you team up the field.
England's problem was not being think this out themselves, and behaving like the ruck was happening, when it wasnt.
It's hardly new Waikato Chiefs did it for a whole season 2014/15.
With hindsight, a better tactic might have been for Italy to play hard to half time, be in contention at the break, and then unleash this tactic in the second half. That could have made for a very squeaky second half.
0000 said:
I wonder if Italy should've used / kept that tactic for a weaker side, in hope of gaining a win. Cat's out of the bag now.
Like Wales?They've done what they wanted to do. They worried England. They stood a chance at stopping the sequence of wins. I think if I was O'Shea I'd have picked the same opponents.
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