The **BOXING** thread (Vol 4)

[Pugaris]

fridaypassion said:

PS I think AJ does look more confident. He's probably too far down the line of his career to fundamentally change his game.

One question does remain though Fury is supposed to be the skilled "boxer" AJ was always more of a puncher with a 7/10 boxing IQ....how did he outbox Francis when Fury just looked confused?

Unreal said:

I think i agree with that. What I'd add is that some confidence building successes were absolutely necessary if he was ever to get in with the elites again. That's been accomplished now, so the next fight should be Hrgovic or Parker, assuming Fury and Usyk do fight twice. I think he'll stop Fury if ever they fight but I think he can only beat Usyk if the Ukrainian ages badly. I can't see why Usyk would want to carry on if he beats Fury - he really would have nothing to prove. It's a bit more complicated if Fury bottles it - but I guess then he fights one or both of the two I've named as potential Joshua opponents.

Agree with you both on the need to build up confidence and him getting some back. He seems a lot calmer in interviews now and after his breakdown in the ring against Usyk (which btw doesn't get memed on enough, I don't think there's been many bigger meltdowns in sport, it's 10x worse than John McEnroe) it was sorely needed

Agree that he isn't going to fundamentally change as a boxer, and what Ben Davison appears to be best at is taking an already well-rounded 'finished product' and just making sure they are using their toolkit as effectively as possible. I don't think that would have made much difference against Usyk, but it might against others where they are relatively evenly matched.

I think AJ runs through Fury now. His footwork is gone which means he's no longer elusive.

[carlo996]

fridaypassion said:

I have a feeling Usyk will retire after beating Fury theres just nothing left for him to achieve and I don't get the impression he's overly bothered about the money.

‘If’

It wasn’t that long ago that AJ lost to chubby Mexican, he looked a shell of himself. I’ll wait until the fight night and see who turns up on each occasion now. Best version of all of them will make for a great matchup.

[fridaypassion]

I didn't say "when" I really do think Usyk will beat Fury but there is no doubt that we will see the absolute best version of Fury turn up for this fight.

[Pugaris]

fridaypassion said:

I didn't say "when" I really do think Usyk will beat Fury but there is no doubt that we will see the absolute best version of Fury turn up for this fight.

I'd caveat this with the best version of him that his body will now allow. I think the Fury that was light on his feet is gone and isn't coming back. You can't put your body through what Tyson has and then expect a 3 month training camp to get you back to where you were in your late 20s as a mid 30s guy.

[lord trumpton]

Pugaris said:

fridaypassion said:

I didn't say "when" I really do think Usyk will beat Fury but there is no doubt that we will see the absolute best version of Fury turn up for this fight.

I'd caveat this with the best version of him that his body will now allow. I think the Fury that was light on his feet is gone and isn't coming back. You can't put your body through what Tyson has and then expect a 3 month training camp to get you back to where you were in your late 20s as a mid 30s guy.

Don't forget Usyk has aged too and didn't look astonishing against Dubois.

I think Fury will nick this one

I'm hoping for the opposite though

[fridaypassion]

Usyk never did love a body shot you can see this right back in his very first Pro bouts he always bit down on his gumshield and got busy after a hard body shot it's been one of the best things about him to watch but for sure as he gets older you can see this is the single in the armour. Personally I do think the Dubois punch was low but there's no doubt that's got to be the game plan to go to the body. Fury has never been noted for his power certainly in the Francis fight he didn't have much so will he be able to impact that much?

I think Fury's main weapon is his inside game this is the one thing he's really very good with. He'll need to try and trap Usyk and get the fight close and very tough. His footwork has evaporated now is that due to him being gone or just fighting to the strength of his opposition? Usyk does have that habit of not being where you want him to be though....

Hopefully the fight will get done and we can just move on.... Until the Fury AJ fight!

[Unreal]

lord trumpton said:

Pugaris said:

fridaypassion said:

I didn't say "when" I really do think Usyk will beat Fury but there is no doubt that we will see the absolute best version of Fury turn up for this fight.

I'd caveat this with the best version of him that his body will now allow. I think the Fury that was light on his feet is gone and isn't coming back. You can't put your body through what Tyson has and then expect a 3 month training camp to get you back to where you were in your late 20s as a mid 30s guy.

Don't forget Usyk has aged too and didn't look astonishing against Dubois.

I think Fury will nick this one

I'm hoping for the opposite though

If you take out the low blow controversy, which I'm not going to debate again, Usyk administered one of his boxing lessons. Like most opponents, Dubois couldn't cope with the pace, movement and punch variety. I understand why people like slug fests and spectacular KOs but Usyk breaks your heart and stops you. He isn't a puncher like Wilder but when you are worn down, such is the accuracy and placement of his punches that they will sicken and stop you.

That's what he did to Bellew, very nearly did in the first fight with AJ and did to perfection with Dubois, the last named being effectively stopped with a jab. Usyk is a smaller heavyweight by modern standards yet again and again he manages to outwit the big guys. I think he deserves enormous credit for stepping up to heavyweight and being able to beat these big uns but then I consider myself a purist and am in awe of the man's skills.

[Pugaris]

lord trumpton said:

Don't forget Usyk has aged too and didn't look astonishing against Dubois.

I think Fury will nick this one

I'm hoping for the opposite though

Maybe. I mean he still won pretty much every round and stopped Dubois

Fury went life and death with an amateur

I think Usyk pieces him up tbh, the skill difference is huge, and it still is against the best version of Fury

We'll see

[juliussneezer]

Pugaris said:

Fury went life and death with an amateur

What do you mean by this? I thought the general perception was the opposite and that's why Fury struggled with him. He took him far too lightly.

[ThisInJapanese]

Nice video breaking down how AJ made it look so easy against FN
https://youtu.be/M2MTG39VazU

[tuscaneer]

carlo996 said:

fridaypassion said:

I have a feeling Usyk will retire after beating Fury theres just nothing left for him to achieve and I don't get the impression he's overly bothered about the money.

‘If’

It wasn’t that long ago that AJ lost to chubby Mexican, he looked a shell of himself. I’ll wait until the fight night and see who turns up on each occasion now. Best version of all of them will make for a great matchup.

let's get it right though....chubby mexican who can fight like fk when he's in the mood who happens to be very, very good on his feet with fast hands and great postional combinations....wind it back and read my comments before that fight... i stated in here joshua would really have his hands full with ruiz... as do most heavyweights...

[biggbn]

tuscaneer said:

carlo996 said:

fridaypassion said:

I have a feeling Usyk will retire after beating Fury theres just nothing left for him to achieve and I don't get the impression he's overly bothered about the money.

‘If’

It wasn’t that long ago that AJ lost to chubby Mexican, he looked a shell of himself. I’ll wait until the fight night and see who turns up on each occasion now. Best version of all of them will make for a great matchup.

let's get it right though....chubby mexican who can fight like fk when he's in the mood who happens to be very, very good on his feet with fast hands and great postional combinations....wind it back and read my comments before that fight... i stated in here joshua would really have his hands full with ruiz... as do most heavyweights...

Agreed, and it's all about the styles again. AJ has always had (relative) trouble with smaller, sharp hitting, mobile guys. Big lumps who give him a target and have neither quick feet nor hands are manna from heaven for such a powerful, saturate hitter with excellent basics. I honestly feel the Bruno; a fighter I feel is criminally underrated, comparisons hold some water. Both do the orthodox, always fit, boxing ABC bit brilliantly and both can ko ANYONE who stays in the wrong place for an instant too long. But neither have/had much of a plan B. Neither look really comfortable boxing long at the end of a jab for round after round. Their jabs aren't the constant unsettling ones that don't let their opponent set their feet or get off shots, they are proper booming weapons that resemble a bit of four by four timber coming off a scaffold on a building site. Their styles and attributes beat 90% of the guys they fight, but Usyk was, and is, the perfect storm for AJ. Quick feet, quick hands, quick mind, great chin, great engine. All wrong for AJ, but let's remember, Usyk had to be perfect to beat him. AJ is good! The losing fight with Usyk was the best AJ I've seen and I'd say that guy troubles Fury.

[tuscaneer]

yeah man agreed... the joshua of the second usyk fight is about as good as i've seen him.... and THAT guy beats fury....

[Pugaris]

juliussneezer said:

What do you mean by this? I thought the general perception was the opposite and that's why Fury struggled with him. He took him far too lightly.

I mean he nearly lost, got dropped, and was badly hurt.

[biggbn]

tuscaneer said:

yeah man agreed... the joshua of the second usyk fight is about as good as i've seen him.... and THAT guy beats fury....

Well see Tusc, for me the best Fury beats them both but I dunno if we will ever see the best of Fury now....I'm quite prepared to believe he gets spanked by Usyk and AJ given his recent mentality more than anything.

[272BHP]

What is true is that there are now only a few mega fights left of this current crop.

Fury vs Usyk
Fury vs AJ

I would like to also humbly suggest AJ vs Wilder as that is a shoot out that would always sell if he has to wait for the other 2 to sort out their differences.

[Unreal]

Wait till Opetaia steps up. He is a machine and improving.

[tuscaneer]

Unreal said:

Wait till Opetaia steps up. He is a machine and improving.

agreed he is good...REALLY good but let's see if he can beat briedis again on the usyk/fury undercard first... i know briedis is getting on now at 38 and has been completely inactive but he didn't look right in that loss to me.

[tuscaneer]

biggbn said:

tuscaneer said:

yeah man agreed... the joshua of the second usyk fight is about as good as i've seen him.... and THAT guy beats fury....

Well see Tusc, for me the best Fury beats them both but I dunno if we will ever see the best of Fury now....I'm quite prepared to believe he gets spanked by Usyk and AJ given his recent mentality more than anything.

let's just hope these fights get made before it's too late dude!

[Pugaris]

biggbn said:

Well see Tusc, for me the best Fury beats them both but I dunno if we will ever see the best of Fury now....I'm quite prepared to believe he gets spanked by Usyk and AJ given his recent mentality more than anything.

I disagree with this, quite strongly, though respect the view.

I'm just pissed off neither of us will be proven right because these fights have taken so long to make.

If Fury and Usyk fought after the latter beat AJ the first time we'd have got it.