2024 Six Nations
Discussion
bigothunter said:
towser said:
Absolutely - I trudge along to Murrayfield 2 or 3 times a year. This “golden generation” has flattered to deceive. They can pull off a one off sublime performance - although that hasn’t happened this 6 Nations.
Townsend has to shoulder a large portion of the responsibility for that but maybe we also have to accept that this generation isn’t as golden as we were lead to believe. Finn Russell - on his day is a game changer but those days are few and far between, maybe we need a more pragmatic number 10.
We’ve maybe got 2 years left with the spine of this team and nothing is coming through the junior ranks - SRU arrogance and being asleep at the wheel to thank for that. So I’d like to see Townsend gone and at least try a different coach for a final crack at winning something as we’ve got a long barren period coming up. Sadly - this is as good as it’ll get for a while.
Scotland needs more South African players Townsend has to shoulder a large portion of the responsibility for that but maybe we also have to accept that this generation isn’t as golden as we were lead to believe. Finn Russell - on his day is a game changer but those days are few and far between, maybe we need a more pragmatic number 10.
We’ve maybe got 2 years left with the spine of this team and nothing is coming through the junior ranks - SRU arrogance and being asleep at the wheel to thank for that. So I’d like to see Townsend gone and at least try a different coach for a final crack at winning something as we’ve got a long barren period coming up. Sadly - this is as good as it’ll get for a while.
WHAT THE f
k WAS THAT?!?!?!Oh. Sorry. It was just my irony detector exploding at the juxtaposition of this post and the user name of the poster!
Kermit power said:
bigothunter said:
towser said:
Absolutely - I trudge along to Murrayfield 2 or 3 times a year. This “golden generation” has flattered to deceive. They can pull off a one off sublime performance - although that hasn’t happened this 6 Nations.
Townsend has to shoulder a large portion of the responsibility for that but maybe we also have to accept that this generation isn’t as golden as we were lead to believe. Finn Russell - on his day is a game changer but those days are few and far between, maybe we need a more pragmatic number 10.
We’ve maybe got 2 years left with the spine of this team and nothing is coming through the junior ranks - SRU arrogance and being asleep at the wheel to thank for that. So I’d like to see Townsend gone and at least try a different coach for a final crack at winning something as we’ve got a long barren period coming up. Sadly - this is as good as it’ll get for a while.
Scotland needs more South African players Townsend has to shoulder a large portion of the responsibility for that but maybe we also have to accept that this generation isn’t as golden as we were lead to believe. Finn Russell - on his day is a game changer but those days are few and far between, maybe we need a more pragmatic number 10.
We’ve maybe got 2 years left with the spine of this team and nothing is coming through the junior ranks - SRU arrogance and being asleep at the wheel to thank for that. So I’d like to see Townsend gone and at least try a different coach for a final crack at winning something as we’ve got a long barren period coming up. Sadly - this is as good as it’ll get for a while.
WHAT THE f
k WAS THAT?!?!?!Oh. Sorry. It was just my irony detector exploding at the juxtaposition of this post and the user name of the poster!
Edited by Stella Tortoise on Monday 18th March 17:34
Not the most exciting competition this year but nice to see some decent rugby played, some good tries being scored and not so many cards.
As for teams,
Ireland continue to perform well and still look strong. Best team in the world, only on their day, but then still can't get past a quarter final at RWC time.
France slipping back to which team will turn up. Thought they had sorted that but they still don't quite present as a very difficult team to beat. Although missing their top half backs may have impeded them.
England showing some green shoots? Still need to clear some of the old school dead wood.
Scotland bit like Wales need to stop focussing on the "just beat England" mentality.
Italy, great to see them finally be competitive throughout, really promising so hope it continues.
Wales? Well pretty bad but then they have blooded an awful lot of payers. Not sure how many of them are good enough though. Interesting 18 months ahead for them and Gatland. Not sure Gatland has what it takes to build a new squad at this stage in his own career.
As for teams,
Ireland continue to perform well and still look strong. Best team in the world, only on their day, but then still can't get past a quarter final at RWC time.
France slipping back to which team will turn up. Thought they had sorted that but they still don't quite present as a very difficult team to beat. Although missing their top half backs may have impeded them.
England showing some green shoots? Still need to clear some of the old school dead wood.
Scotland bit like Wales need to stop focussing on the "just beat England" mentality.
Italy, great to see them finally be competitive throughout, really promising so hope it continues.
Wales? Well pretty bad but then they have blooded an awful lot of payers. Not sure how many of them are good enough though. Interesting 18 months ahead for them and Gatland. Not sure Gatland has what it takes to build a new squad at this stage in his own career.
Great 6 Nations this year and it's about time Georgia was allowed to compete in the (Seven Nations) competition.
They beat Portugal 36 - 10 yesterday to claim the Rugby Europe Championship for the 13th time in 14 years. Rugby is hugely popular in Georgia and they could do with the cash boost the home matches would provide.
They beat Portugal 36 - 10 yesterday to claim the Rugby Europe Championship for the 13th time in 14 years. Rugby is hugely popular in Georgia and they could do with the cash boost the home matches would provide.
LRDefender said:
Great 6 Nations this year and it's about time Georgia was allowed to compete in the (Seven Nations) competition.
They beat Portugal 36 - 10 yesterday to claim the Rugby Europe Championship for the 13th time in 14 years. Rugby is hugely popular in Georgia and they could do with the cash boost the home matches would provide.
I can’t see it happening.They beat Portugal 36 - 10 yesterday to claim the Rugby Europe Championship for the 13th time in 14 years. Rugby is hugely popular in Georgia and they could do with the cash boost the home matches would provide.
Georgia RFU would have to become shareholders in the six/seven nations competition like the already existing countries RFU’s are.
Boom78 said:
Kermit power said:
That makes you wonder just how far the poor Welsh could actually drop.
They're so far adrift of South Africa that a loss shouldn't impact their ranking score, but if Australia them twice, they could potentially drop below Fiji, Japan and Georgia by the look of it.
Absolutely criminal really! Rugby without a strong Welsh side just doesn't feel right.
It looks like an accurate ranking to me, we’ve been rubbish. For the last 20 years we somehow managed to find decent players, they were naturally talented and driven rather than a product of the regions/WRU. Our club/regional structure has always been this bad, these now retired ‘golden generation’ (hate that phrase) players gave a veneer of success to our structure, we’re now seeing the cold reality. To be successful you need the foundations, governance and finances in place, we don’t have any of these. Totally agree on your last point, the 6N does need a strong Welsh team but it must be earned.They're so far adrift of South Africa that a loss shouldn't impact their ranking score, but if Australia them twice, they could potentially drop below Fiji, Japan and Georgia by the look of it.
Absolutely criminal really! Rugby without a strong Welsh side just doesn't feel right.
My worry is the talent will be drawn to the school academy structure then whisked off on scholarships to England, it’s already started to happen a bit. I think Gatland was saying on Scrum V the English schools and clubs are paying 15-20k as salaries/annual sponsorships to these players, we pay nothing.
Edited by Boom78 on Monday 18th March 07:33
Edited by Boom78 on Monday 18th March 07:36
Edited by Boom78 on Monday 18th March 07:37
Tom8 said:
Not the most exciting competition this year but nice to see some decent rugby played, some good tries being scored and not so many cards.
As for teams,
Ireland continue to perform well and still look strong. Best team in the world, only on their day, but then still can't get past a quarter final at RWC time.
France slipping back to which team will turn up. Thought they had sorted that but they still don't quite present as a very difficult team to beat. Although missing their top half backs may have impeded them.
England showing some green shoots? Still need to clear some of the old school dead wood.
Scotland bit like Wales need to stop focussing on the "just beat England" mentality.
Italy, great to see them finally be competitive throughout, really promising so hope it continues.
Wales? Well pretty bad but then they have blooded an awful lot of payers. Not sure how many of them are good enough though. Interesting 18 months ahead for them and Gatland. Not sure Gatland has what it takes to build a new squad at this stage in his own career.
We don't have a just beat England mentality. We have a just beat someone, anyone, mentality As for teams,
Ireland continue to perform well and still look strong. Best team in the world, only on their day, but then still can't get past a quarter final at RWC time.
France slipping back to which team will turn up. Thought they had sorted that but they still don't quite present as a very difficult team to beat. Although missing their top half backs may have impeded them.
England showing some green shoots? Still need to clear some of the old school dead wood.
Scotland bit like Wales need to stop focussing on the "just beat England" mentality.
Italy, great to see them finally be competitive throughout, really promising so hope it continues.
Wales? Well pretty bad but then they have blooded an awful lot of payers. Not sure how many of them are good enough though. Interesting 18 months ahead for them and Gatland. Not sure Gatland has what it takes to build a new squad at this stage in his own career.
phil_cardiff said:
Sorry, but the players were very much a product of the regions. Well funded regions with quality players and coaches, creating a high performance environment. And yes, some players were genetic freaks too.
The way I see it is the likes of AWJ, North, foxy, Shane etc were already good and causing ripples in their teens at local club/schools, this is before they went to the regions. Yes, the regions gave them a springboard to the Welsh set up but its was their natural abilities/talent that rang out, not what the regions had done with them. If the regions had not existed they would have got there regardless. Our regions have never been well managed or properly funded bar a blip when the ospreys were in their galactico phase but that didn’t last.CivicDuties said:
Jordie Barretts sock said:
Mate it was a light hearted comment. He's not a screaming Nazi (or at least I don't think he is).
He even posted a smiling face. Lighten up a bit, eh?
It's the lack of originality that gets me. Come up with something witty and original. This lame arsed line is trotted out every time anyone tries to talk about Scotland. If it's so cool with everyone, let's have "Maybe they need more Samoans" every time England are discussed.He even posted a smiling face. Lighten up a bit, eh?
It's so boring.
Boom78 said:
phil_cardiff said:
Sorry, but the players were very much a product of the regions. Well funded regions with quality players and coaches, creating a high performance environment. And yes, some players were genetic freaks too.
The way I see it is the likes of AWJ, North, foxy, Shane etc were already good and causing ripples in their teens at local club/schools, this is before they went to the regions. Yes, the regions gave them a springboard to the Welsh set up but its was their natural abilities/talent that rang out, not what the regions had done with them. If the regions had not existed they would have got there regardless. Our regions have never been well managed or properly funded bar a blip when the ospreys were in their galactico phase but that didn’t last.The regions have won 6 league titles, a European challenge Cup and been at the top end of the Champions Cup when adequately funded. Well, the Scarlets, Ospreys and Cardiff have. The Dragons not so much.
It's all about funding really. Strong correlation between money and success in pro sport, rugby in Wales is no different.
phil_cardiff said:
Ummm, can't agree there. Huge amount of development is done in the region's academies and first team squads. Where would they have developed otherwise? Some lower standard Welsh clubs or in the English system? The concentration of talent and resources into 4 regions has been massively beneficial to Welsh rugby, particularly at international level.
The regions have won 6 league titles, a European challenge Cup and been at the top end of the Champions Cup when adequately funded. Well, the Scarlets, Ospreys and Cardiff have. The Dragons not so much.
It's all about funding really. Strong correlation between money and success in pro sport, rugby in Wales is no different.
What is the true issue with funding?The regions have won 6 league titles, a European challenge Cup and been at the top end of the Champions Cup when adequately funded. Well, the Scarlets, Ospreys and Cardiff have. The Dragons not so much.
It's all about funding really. Strong correlation between money and success in pro sport, rugby in Wales is no different.
Is there no money for funding? Is the money there but it's poorly allocated? Is it there but the WRU hold it back for their own nefarious benefit? Gate numbers / revenue I imagine has a big impact?
Sorry - Welsh here but live in London so a bit removed from what actually goes on on the ground.
ETA - hard to argue with this https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68594896
Edited by Legend83 on Tuesday 19th March 08:45
Mr Magooagain said:
LRDefender said:
Great 6 Nations this year and it's about time Georgia was allowed to compete in the (Seven Nations) competition.
They beat Portugal 36 - 10 yesterday to claim the Rugby Europe Championship for the 13th time in 14 years. Rugby is hugely popular in Georgia and they could do with the cash boost the home matches would provide.
I can’t see it happening.They beat Portugal 36 - 10 yesterday to claim the Rugby Europe Championship for the 13th time in 14 years. Rugby is hugely popular in Georgia and they could do with the cash boost the home matches would provide.
Georgia RFU would have to become shareholders in the six/seven nations competition like the already existing countries RFU’s are.
I also think it's a bit odd that the nations - and, indeed, the clubs in the Premiership - have permanent shares in the competition, as this automatically limits opportunities for promotion/relegation. The Oikball Premier League seems a far more sensible structure, in that it is owned by the constituent clubs, but at the end of the season the shares of relegated clubs are transferred to the clubs being promoted from the Championship.
DocJock said:
CivicDuties said:
Jordie Barretts sock said:
Mate it was a light hearted comment. He's not a screaming Nazi (or at least I don't think he is).
He even posted a smiling face. Lighten up a bit, eh?
It's the lack of originality that gets me. Come up with something witty and original. This lame arsed line is trotted out every time anyone tries to talk about Scotland. If it's so cool with everyone, let's have "Maybe they need more Samoans" every time England are discussed.He even posted a smiling face. Lighten up a bit, eh?
It's so boring.
Legend83 said:
phil_cardiff said:
Ummm, can't agree there. Huge amount of development is done in the region's academies and first team squads. Where would they have developed otherwise? Some lower standard Welsh clubs or in the English system? The concentration of talent and resources into 4 regions has been massively beneficial to Welsh rugby, particularly at international level.
The regions have won 6 league titles, a European challenge Cup and been at the top end of the Champions Cup when adequately funded. Well, the Scarlets, Ospreys and Cardiff have. The Dragons not so much.
It's all about funding really. Strong correlation between money and success in pro sport, rugby in Wales is no different.
What is the true issue with funding?The regions have won 6 league titles, a European challenge Cup and been at the top end of the Champions Cup when adequately funded. Well, the Scarlets, Ospreys and Cardiff have. The Dragons not so much.
It's all about funding really. Strong correlation between money and success in pro sport, rugby in Wales is no different.
Is there no money for funding? Is the money there but it's poorly allocated? Is it there but the WRU hold it back for their own nefarious benefit? Gate numbers / revenue I imagine has a big impact?
Sorry - Welsh here but live in London so a bit removed from what actually goes on on the ground.
ETA - hard to argue with this https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68594896
Edited by Legend83 on Tuesday 19th March 08:45
The WRU have similar income levels to the IRFU. The Irish spend less on the community game and more on the professional game. There are probably too many community clubs in Wales.
That's not to say the WRU should copy the Irish model. The IRFU don't have to pay for the stadium upkeep and rely heavily on private schools in the Dublin area.
The WRU have also spent a fair amount recently on things like hotels and zip wires. Fine if they make money but not great optics when the core products are struggling.
Historically the WRU chose to pay off debt during a period of historically low interest rates. A decision that hasn't aged well.
The WRU have spent quite a bit on NDAs and payoffs for rugby staff and corporate severanceals too. I suspect there's a lot of fat that could be trimmed internally.
All in all, it's a s
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