The Running Thread

[Cybertronian]

Had my first evening and mid-week race last night, a 10k. Windy and undulating conditions, but I sensed my 10k PB from September was a bit soft given the passage of time - managed to squeeze out a cheeky 6 second PB for 39:38

Have a pancake flat 10k end of next week, so reckon I should be around 20 - 30 seconds faster.

[ewenm]

Cybertronian said:

Had my first evening and mid-week race last night, a 10k. Windy and undulating conditions, but I sensed my 10k PB from September was a bit soft given the passage of time - managed to squeeze out a cheeky 6 second PB for 39:38

Have a pancake flat 10k end of next week, so reckon I should be around 20 - 30 seconds faster.

Well done

[VladD]

krallicious said:

I'm getting really pissed off now. I missed my run today as my hip is still hurting.

Is it muscle pain or joint pain? If it's joint, try taking Glucosamine. I have a friend who runs who swears by it.

[krallicious]

VladD said:

Is it muscle pain or joint pain? If it's joint, try taking Glucosamine. I have a friend who runs who swears by it.

It's a dull ache just under my hip. Feels almost like bruising on the bone if that makes sense.

Just ordered some so I will report back. Thanks for the tip.

[gifdy]

Hello - just found this thread. I took up running last year for general fitness, and I'm really starting to enjoy it now. I've worked out 10K suits me best so my runs are usually 5K & 10K with the odd 15-20K thrown in now and again but training not structured and more when I have time. My target is to get to 45min for the 10K but I'm some way off. PB is 52min/10K and 24min for my local 5K circuit which includes "THE HILL OF DEATH".

I was getting pains in my left knee and hip but I found switching to Nike Free 3.0 shoes made a huge difference ( I'm sure it sped me up but it may be in my mind ), also some gym training has helped.

I work a fair amount in Helsinki so bring my trainers over to run in the summer. My favourite route there is what I've called 'Lake Totty'. I must take my head cam to show you why it go that name

I now need to look back over the thread for top tips. BTW anyone use Garmin Connect ?

[KTF]

gifdy said:

BTW anyone use Garmin Connect ?

I use Garmin Connect (well Express) to pull the data off the watch. Once its uploaded to Garmin Connect, Strava automatically pulls it in.

Both Garmin Connect and Strava are very similar though as both will give you the stats, route you took, etc.

[RizzoTheRat]

I find the info from Garmin connect to be pretty good, and they've now started a stravaesque thing of comparing segments to other users. Does strava offer much more?

[gifdy]

RizzoTheRat said:

I find the info from Garmin connect to be pretty good, and they've now started a stravaesque thing of comparing segments to other users. Does strava offer much more?

Perhaps I haven't got it set up right yet but I've found the 'segments' function on Garmin to be pretty ropey so far. Strava is far better for this, although I'm sure it'll be improved.

[KTF]

RizzoTheRat said:

I find the info from Garmin connect to be pretty good, and they've now started a stravaesque thing of comparing segments to other users. Does strava offer much more?

In general I find strava to be 'better' in terms of displaying the information, segments, etc. You also see your rank on various segments compared to the other Strava users and can can make your own segments as well.

Garmin Connect might allow that but I havent really looked into it.

If you do parkrun then you can link that to your Strava profile to compare to other runners on the course, etc.

[The jiffle king]

Went to the US running club again on Tuesday night and it was another good experience. We walked in and 5-6 people said welcome back. Then they explained that this was cinco de mayo and a party night so the only 2 run options were 2 miles and 4 miles with a walking option of 1.5 miles. My heart sank, but they explained that a supplier (Zoot shoes) were sponsoring a party with food and beer/mojitos afterwards.

Again they gave us all instructions and set us into groups and we set off. The pace was a little better for me and we started off at 8 min miles. This then increased over the course of the run to finish about 6:50's and we were back in 30:12, so a steady 7:30ish average.

Then the party, free bottled water, beer and lots of really good food followed by a free raffle where they gave away about $200 of goods.

It was really good and I found some people my pace as well as realizing that they have people going from Walking (slowly) to running at a pretty good pace and most paces inbetween.

It was very hot at 25C and will only get hotter!!!

Anyway, enough rambling on, it was a good experience and very friendly with lots of trained coaches who are really encouraging.

[VladD]

The jiffle king said:

Went to the US running club again on Tuesday night and it was another good experience. We walked in and 5-6 people said welcome back. Then they explained that this was cinco de mayo and a party night so the only 2 run options were 2 miles and 4 miles with a walking option of 1.5 miles. My heart sank, but they explained that a supplier (Zoot shoes) were sponsoring a party with food and beer/mojitos afterwards.

Again they gave us all instructions and set us into groups and we set off. The pace was a little better for me and we started off at 8 min miles. This then increased over the course of the run to finish about 6:50's and we were back in 30:12, so a steady 7:30ish average.

Then the party, free bottled water, beer and lots of really good food followed by a free raffle where they gave away about $200 of goods.

It was really good and I found some people my pace as well as realizing that they have people going from Walking (slowly) to running at a pretty good pace and most paces inbetween.

It was very hot at 25C and will only get hotter!!!

Anyway, enough rambling on, it was a good experience and very friendly with lots of trained coaches who are really encouraging.

Sounds great. I miss Cinco de Mayo.

[E65Ross]

A BIG thank you to those from here who have donated to my my just giving page! Really, really appreciate it!

[MC Bodge]

I decided to do a medium-intensity run this evening to get a feel for pace and try to maintain good form.

I kept my HRM to (indicated) mid 160s, which allowed for controlled deep breathing ( I could say a small number of words at a time) and an effort that I felt that I could maintain consistently. At times my HRM went above 170 and my breathing became deeper. I then backed off a little.

After running a total of 9k I still felt comfortable and could have continued for much longer.


I'm not sure what this tells me, although I suspect that I was further below my Lactate Threshold than I ha realised, and it is closer to 170 (possibly above) than 160. My HRM may be wrong.

Is this similar to "Tempo"?
Is there much benefit from running at this intensity?

Ps. I'm 37

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 7th May 22:58

Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 8th May 08:48

[Smitters]

I'm struggling to identify the right zones to train in to get good benefits. As I have a bit more time to research over the next few weeks I'll pop stuff up. I realise that training to HR is always a caveat filled effort anyway, not to mention a moving target as you train and (hopefully) get fitter.

Anyway, with Sunday's race in mind I did an easy 10km this morning. Legs good, if a little tight in the calves - worrying the day ofetr physio, on a pan-flat path when my race involves two big hills. Managed to keep my HR down and my cadence up and felt good all the way, despite having a little tantrum as I binned my TalkUltra podcast. I just cannot stand the presenter.

Hope everyone has a good running weekend.

[ewenm]

Smitters said:

I'm struggling to identify the right zones to train in to get good benefits. As I have a bit more time to research over the next few weeks I'll pop stuff up. I realise that training to HR is always a caveat filled effort anyway, not to mention a moving target as you train and (hopefully) get fitter.

Anyway, with Sunday's race in mind I did an easy 10km this morning. Legs good, if a little tight in the calves - worrying the day ofetr physio, on a pan-flat path when my race involves two big hills. Managed to keep my HR down and my cadence up and felt good all the way, despite having a little tantrum as I binned my TalkUltra podcast. I just cannot stand the presenter.

Hope everyone has a good running weekend.

Is TalkUltra Ian Corless? If so, he is a somewhat peculiar individual...

HR zones - only really any good if you've done a lactate threshold test on a treadmill in a lab and had the results analysed to determine your individual zones. As you say, this needs to be a regular thing (I used to have one every 3 months or so) to assess training effect.

For those that haven't done one of these, the rule of thumb is at least 75% of your mileage is at "steady" pace or slower. Steady pace is roughly the pace at which you can hold a conversation, but it isn't easy, so one sentence replies.

The remaining at most 25% of your mileage is faster, from threshold pace (estimate as fastest pace you can sustain for 1 hour) to intervals and speed work (probably less than 5% of total weekly mileage).

I don't use a HRM any more and base my training on plenty of steady miles, some tempo/threshold work and one speed session a week. I'm in about 33min 10k shape.

[Smitters]

ewenm said:

Is TalkUltra Ian Corless? If so, he is a somewhat peculiar individual...

HR zones - only really any good if you've done a lactate threshold test on a treadmill in a lab and had the results analysed to determine your individual zones. As you say, this needs to be a regular thing (I used to have one every 3 months or so) to assess training effect.

For those that haven't done one of these, the rule of thumb is at least 75% of your mileage is at "steady" pace or slower. Steady pace is roughly the pace at which you can hold a conversation, but it isn't easy, so one sentence replies.

The remaining at most 25% of your mileage is faster, from threshold pace (estimate as fastest pace you can sustain for 1 hour) to intervals and speed work (probably less than 5% of total weekly mileage).

I don't use a HRM any more and base my training on plenty of steady miles, some tempo/threshold work and one speed session a week. I'm in about 33min 10k shape.

Ian Corless indeed. Sometimes it's OK, but his patronising interview with Karl Egloff was painful and his superior attitude in his MdS show was what made me rip the earbuds out! I think the real issue is that MarathonTalk is just so good. TalkUltra is, by comparison to many podcasts, excellent. horses/courses etc.

I'm a bit data driven (note earlier post of colour-coding my run stats according to how close to target I got...), plus I'm not in tune enough to accurately estimate my HR and relate RPE to HR to pace yet, though that'll come with as I get running more regularly. In an ideal world I guess I'd do everything on RPE to your suggestion above and only look at data after a run to help plan training and set goals.

In reality, I, like lots of runners, probably just need to run my slow runs slower and my fast runs faster at the mo! Sometimes keeping it simple isn't so simple.

[ewenm]

Smitters said:

In reality, I, like lots of runners, probably just need to run my slow runs slower and my fast runs faster at the mo! Sometimes keeping it simple isn't so simple.

Every run needs a purpose. That purpose should define the pace. One of the fastest runners I ever trained with was always off the back of the group on long or easy runs - he ran his easy runs EASY. He then kicked our arses on fast efforts and ran XC internationally.

As you like data-driven running, have a look at Daniels Running Formula (book) - lots of well used advice in there about training paces based on race paces/goals.

[Cybertronian]

Ewen, have you ever run the Bristol 10k? Entries are still open and I'm on the fence about entering it to plug a gap in my diary. A bit dear at £29, but there's sod all else even near my neck of the woods at the end of the month.

[Smitters]

ewenm said:

Every run needs a purpose. That purpose should define the pace. One of the fastest runners I ever trained with was always off the back of the group on long or easy runs - he ran his easy runs EASY. He then kicked our arses on fast efforts and ran XC internationally.

As you like data-driven running, have a look at Daniels Running Formula (book) - lots of well used advice in there about training paces based on race paces/goals.

Agreed. I'm easily injured, so I limit myself to three runs a week - one short, one medium and one long. Depending on the purpose of the training block this year (long run endurance/speed/threshold) one run gets prioritised as the key session and I use the other two to work on form, breathing, cadence and so on. Currently wading through Noakes' Lore of Running. Will look out for the Daniels book.

[MC Bodge]

ewenm said:

Is TalkUltra Ian Corless? If so, he is a somewhat peculiar individual...

I remember Ian Corless from before he was into endurance sports and not thin (He was a friend of my cousin). I was surprised to hear his name pop up about his "8 marathons in 8 days" thing a few years ago. There is quite a good talk by him about it, and his background, on YouTube.

ewenm said:

HR zones - only really any good if you've done a lactate threshold test on a treadmill in a lab and had the results analysed to determine your individual zones. As you say, this needs to be a regular thing (I used to have one every 3 months or so) to assess training effect.

For those that haven't done one of these, the rule of thumb is at least 75% of your mileage is at "steady" pace or slower. Steady pace is roughly the pace at which you can hold a conversation, but it isn't easy, so one sentence replies.

The remaining at most 25% of your mileage is faster, from threshold pace (estimate as fastest pace you can sustain for 1 hour) to intervals and speed work (probably less than 5% of total weekly mileage).

I don't use a HRM any more and base my training on plenty of steady miles, some tempo/threshold work and one speed session a week. I'm in about 33min 10k shape.

Cheers. Using the HRM recently has been helpful in getting a feel for pace/effort during my easy runs and my attempt at a tempo run yesterday.

I think my tempo run needs to be a little harder and my easy runs easier. My fartlek runs are probably ok for now. Trying to prevent injury....

I feel that I am benefitting a lot from yoga and from strength (emphasis on core, calves and upper legs/ glutes) training in the gym with kettle bells and body weight exercises.

Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 8th May 18:23