The Running Thread

[KTF]

The jiffle king said:

KTF said:

Is that 'long' for most US clubs or picked as the people who turned up were not capable of running much further?

I'm not sure yet. The standard at the club level looks to be between 8 min/mile and 16 min/mile whereas I am used to 5/mile and 12/mile

As for distances I think many of these clubs/groups are just starting and so they have the shorter routes to encourage people. It feels like I will need to run with a group to be sociable and do any tempo's/speedwork/long runs on my own

Yeah, it does seem they are more 'social' clubs than for people who want to improve. 8min/mile I could cope with but anything slower and I get frustrated.

16min/mile must be interesting to watch tho, I walk faster than that

[The jiffle king]

KTF said:

Yeah, it does seem they are more 'social' clubs than for people who want to improve. 8min/mile I could cope with but anything slower and I get frustrated.

16min/mile must be interesting to watch tho, I walk faster than that

The size of some people is why it's 16 min per mile... I cannot describe the size of people here!!
I'm happy to go and run sociably at 8 min/per, but I need to do all tempo and other runs on my own

[Cybertronian]

Ran the Bristol 10k this morning and had to work hard for my 39:55. Was hoping for something nearer 39:20, but I went into the race with a fair amount of accumulated fatigue and the out and back portion of the course was incredibly exposed to wind in all directions (?!).

Can't help but be annoyed that I peaked at the race from 2 weeks ago and would have hit 39:15 if it wasn't 200m short...

Edited by Cybertronian on Sunday 31st May 14:44

[ewenm]

Cybertronian said:

Ran the Bristol 10k this morning and had to work hard for my 39:55. Was hoping for something nearer 39:20, but I went into the race with a fair amount of accumulated fatigue and the out and back portion of the course was incredibly exposed to wind in all directions (?!).

Can't help but be annoyed that I peaked at the race from 2 weeks ago and would have hit 39:15 if it wasn't 200m short...

If it didn't, my statement earlier about Bristol being a fast course should have had the caveat of "if it's not windy". Sorry about that...

[Cybertronian]

Not to worry! I could see from the route that it had a chance of being blusterry on the Portway if the weather wasn't playing ball. What caught me off guard was how unavoidable the wind was, regardless of whether on the out or return.

Pretty deep field with 361x sub-40s and 87x sub-35s!

[SpydieNut]

Ok, so a post-Comrades update

It's an absolutely amazing race to be part of, but certainly didn't go to plan from my part. I think the main thing was I hadn't done enough training, with a couple of periods off in the last year getting over injuries. It was brutally hot - about 29-30*C, with high humidity and no clouds. I was drinking 400-600ml every water station (about every 1.5miles) and still got dehydrated. I couldn't take in any more at a time, or I felt sick. I ate whatever they had - oranges, bananas, boiled potatoes with salt, energy bars etc, but ran into trouble at the top of Botha's hill (about 20-25 miles in).

My hip was still niggling and this was worse when heel striking, so I was running more on my forefoot and off my toes, which I wasn't used to. So then my calves tightened up and got tired. My stride became very choppy and inefficient, but I couldn't lengthen it.

The last 3-4 hours was virtually all walking and I was so hot that even walking up those hills made me feel dizzy.

I'd gone into it knowing I wasn't as prepared as last year, but thought I'd be ok. But I was wrong and that race kicked my butt. I was hoping for a 9.5-10 hour, but really fell off after halfway and ended up finishing in 11hrs 20min. Oh well, it was a good lesson and I can't be disappointed as it was just poor training. It was still an amazing event to be part of and the fellow competitors and spectators were wonderful.

[RizzoTheRat]

Congratulations. Caught a few clips on YouTube, looked like hard work. Mate from my local club did it in 11:26

[Cybertronian]

Good work, fella! Majorly impressed with anybody that sets out to go further than a marathon. Rest yourself up.

[Dr Murdoch]

10k training plan

Ive been running for over a decade now, completed a number of half marathons, 10k's and 5k's but Ive never followed a 'plan' as such. Ive got a 10k coming up in about 6 weeks and thought I would try for a PB which would be a sub 50. However, the training plans Ive seen I'm struggling to understand tbh. Are there any simple plans I could follow? I'm currently running 10miles each run, so about 25m per week.

Thanks

[SpydieNut]

Thanks Rizzo - I think it was a fairly brutal day on which to run a race, let alone a hilly ultra.

There were a lot of guys around me even at the end who were seeded B or even A (elite athletes with a qualifying marathon time of sub 3hrs) who looked fit, but who were at the side of the road throwing up, or in some cases lying flat on their backs. There was also a chap in my mom's running group who has run 20 silvers (sub 7.5 hrs) in the past and he just scraped in under the 12 hour gun.

So more training would certainly have helped, especially hill work, but I'd still have struggled with the heat.

I was almost 2 hrs quicker on the down run last year and most say that the up run is the easier route, certainly less punishing on the body. My quads are a lot less stiff and sore than last year, due to less time spent braking going downhill.

My sister ran her 4th and did 10hrs 29.

It's getting to be a bit of a tradition - my mom's run for years and has 25 Comrades under her belt.

I can't do next year, but maybe the year after I can go back and do the up run justice

ETA - I'm going to have a couple of weeks off - rest the hip etc and I also have lost the nails on the 2nd toes of both feet (and a couple of fairly large blisters . Then going to concentrate on shorter distances, with a faster pace and build up. No more than marathon length for a while, but planning to go back to S.A next year and do Two Oceans with mom and sister

Edited by SpydieNut on Monday 1st June 16:33

[marting]

SpydieNut said:

Thanks Rizzo - I think it was a fairly brutal day on which to run a race, let alone a hilly ultra.

There were a lot of guys around me even at the end who were seeded B or even A (elite athletes with a qualifying marathon time of sub 3hrs) who looked fit, but who were at the side of the road throwing up, or in some cases lying flat on their backs. There was also a chap in my mom's running group who has run 20 silvers (sub 7.5 hrs) in the past and he just scraped in under the 12 hour gun.

So more training would certainly have helped, especially hill work, but I'd still have struggled with the heat.

I was almost 2 hrs quicker on the down run last year and most say that the up run is the easier route, certainly less punishing on the body. My quads are a lot less stiff and sore than last year, due to less time spent braking going downhill.

My sister ran her 4th and did 10hrs 29.

It's getting to be a bit of a tradition - my mom's run for years and has 25 Comrades under her belt.

I can't do next year, but maybe the year after I can go back and do the up run justice

ETA - I'm going to have a couple of weeks off - rest the hip etc and I also have lost the nails on the 2nd toes of both feet (and a couple of fairly large blisters . Then going to concentrate on shorter distances, with a faster pace and build up. No more than marathon length for a while, but planning to go back to S.A next year and do Two Oceans with mom and sister

Edited by SpydieNut on Monday 1st June 16:33

Good work Spydie, that's an impressive achievement. Your family sounds quite intimidating too!

[The jiffle king]

Dr Murdoch said:

10k training plan

I would start with looking at the runnersworld website as you will find many plans on there and they range from Sub 60 to sub 35 mins (or they used to)
They also help you understand how to put in the right speedwork to get quicker and also the long run to build endurance.

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/racing/the-perfect-1...

My own mantra on this is 1 x long, 1 x speed session, 1 x tempo session every week. Any other runs are a bonus and build up stamina.

[krallicious]

Good work Spydie.

I did the Kentroadrunner Marathon on Saturday. It is advertised as a PB course because it is flat. They lied. The final 750m or so is all up hill to the start/finish line which after 10 laps became a chore and for the final 7 was downright crap. However it was very well supported and the day enjoyable.

Anyway, I knocked 24 minutes off my PB with a 3.48.41. The target was 3.55 so I am very happy. I ran with two friends who are quicker than me but that did help and we all crossed the finish line together which was a nice gesture as they waited for nearly a minute for me to catch up!

Edited by krallicious on Tuesday 2nd June 09:12

[john2443]

The jiffle king said:

Dr Murdoch said:

10k training plan

My own mantra on this is 1 x long, 1 x speed session, 1 x tempo session every week. Any other runs are a bonus and build up stamina.

That's what I did - each week 1 long slow run gradually building up to 12k, a different session each week (hill reps, 5 x 1k, 12 x 1 min, pyramid etc) and parkrun as quick as poss.

If you're younger than me (57) you can probably manage more than 3 session a week, I find I get injured and knackered if I do too many runs a week, I need to recover.

[Birdster]

I'm new to running outside and love being outdoors instead of on the treadmill.

I'm looking into trail running around the local forest paths, mix of dry mud, twigs, stones and some water logged mud.
During the summer would the shoe with the red sole be me more suited and then something like the black sole with the deeper tread for winter? I have some Nike Pegasus for road running and fancy trying the trails once a fortnight to mix it up.

[markh1973]

Birdster said:

I'm new to running outside and love being outdoors instead of on the treadmill.

I'm looking into trail running around the local forest paths, mix of dry mud, twigs, stones and some water logged mud.
During the summer would the shoe with the red sole be me more suited and then something like the black sole with the deeper tread for winter? I have some Nike Pegasus for road running and fancy trying the trails once a fortnight to mix it up.

I use soles along the lines of the red ones all year round on the trails.

I have som shoes for serious mud (more like the black ones) but they aren't much good on anything that isn't mud so don't get worn that often.

Trails are great for building strength and i find that helps with speed on the roads even without putting in significant speedwork.

[Dr Murdoch]

john2443 said:

That's what I did - each week 1 long slow run gradually building up to 12k, a different session each week (hill reps, 5 x 1k, 12 x 1 min, pyramid etc) and parkrun as quick as poss.

If you're younger than me (57) you can probably manage more than 3 session a week, I find I get injured and knackered if I do too many runs a week, I need to recover.

Chaps (J King and John) thanks very much for your help.

so according to this http://www.runnersworld.co.za/tools/training-pace-... and your advice I should think along the lines of:

1 long slow run, building the mileage each week

1 Tempo at 8.16 min/miles, but what structure? easy 3k then how long at 8.16 followed by a slow 3k to finish?

1 Speed at 6.50 min/miles () - easy 3k then 8 x 400m sprints with 3 mins recover jogging then finish with a easy 3k to home?

That sound right? Unsure about the length / time of the middle stint during the tempo workout

[ewenm]

Dr Murdoch said:

Chaps (J King and John) thanks very much for your help.

so according to this http://www.runnersworld.co.za/tools/training-pace-... and your advice I should think along the lines of:

1 long slow run, building the mileage each week

1 Tempo at 8.16 min/miles, but what structure? easy 3k then how long at 8.16 followed by a slow 3k to finish?

1 Speed at 6.50 min/miles () - easy 3k then 8 x 400m sprints with 3 mins recover jogging then finish with a easy 3k to home?

That sound right? Unsure about the length / time of the middle stint during the tempo workout

My thoughts:
Tempo: like the long run, build the distance of this over the weeks. Perhaps starting with 2-3 miles and adding 0.5 mile each time. 3k is quite a long warm up/down, I tend to do 1 mile warm up/down but it's personal choice. I guess more is better if you have the time.
Speed: 3 min recovery is quite long on 400m efforts. Given your 400m at that pace are roughly 1:45 then I wouldn't have more than 2 mins recovery. My rule of thumb is recovery between 50% and 100% of the effort duration. Obviously 2 mins is slightly over 100% effort duration but that's fine for getting used to doing sessions like this. Same comment as above on warm up/down.

[ewenm]

Motivation / Psychology / Confidence / Mojo - whatever you call it, it is an ephemeral and fickle thing for me. As most of you probably know I've been running for a long time (over 25 years!) with some decent success in that time but also some periods of injury, illness and life getting in the way of running. I find it can be small things that make a big difference to my motivation around running. I use running as much more than just fitness:

• "Me time"
• Stress reduction/mental health improvement
• Social
• Competition

From a family life viewpoint, the top two in that list are the most important. Running keeps me sane and the family appreciate that! Anyway, back to the "small things" - I've been struggling recently because I've had a succession of colds/illness that has prevent me running. This has coincided with a few races I was hoping to do well in, with the Euro Mountain Running trial for Team GB that was on last weekend. I made the decision not to run, and was feeling pretty down about it but had planned the weekend in Lancaster and the Lakes already so went along to spectate the race anyway. I'm so glad I did! Two things about the day completely re-energised my running-mojo.

Firstly, it was great to see a couple of old training partners and friends do well in the race - one came 2nd and has been selected for the GB team and the other came 8th. He was disappointed with that but it looked good to me. From a selfish viewpoint it motivated me to get to that level as I know I can run as well as those guys if I train consistently and intelligently.

Secondly, I chose a spectating point halfway up the course and got chatting to the marshal at that point. It turns out she is the Chair of Selectors for the GB and England Mountain Running Teams and she was really encouraging to talk to, giving me lots of advice of races to target, potential selection opportunities and possible England vests up for grabs. It also turns out that she knows just about every runner I used to train with at Uni or when I lived in London, as well as some of my local training partners. The conversation reminded me that the running community in general is supportive and positive at all levels.

Just that half-day spectating has turned my outlook round from being pretty negative about running to being positive and keen to plan the next tranche of training and racing. Small things...

[Tycho]

SpydieNut said:

Ok, so a post-Comrades update

It's an absolutely amazing race to be part of, but certainly didn't go to plan from my part. I think the main thing was I hadn't done enough training, with a couple of periods off in the last year getting over injuries. It was brutally hot - about 29-30*C, with high humidity and no clouds. I was drinking 400-600ml every water station (about every 1.5miles) and still got dehydrated. I couldn't take in any more at a time, or I felt sick. I ate whatever they had - oranges, bananas, boiled potatoes with salt, energy bars etc, but ran into trouble at the top of Botha's hill (about 20-25 miles in).

My hip was still niggling and this was worse when heel striking, so I was running more on my forefoot and off my toes, which I wasn't used to. So then my calves tightened up and got tired. My stride became very choppy and inefficient, but I couldn't lengthen it.

The last 3-4 hours was virtually all walking and I was so hot that even walking up those hills made me feel dizzy.

I'd gone into it knowing I wasn't as prepared as last year, but thought I'd be ok. But I was wrong and that race kicked my butt. I was hoping for a 9.5-10 hour, but really fell off after halfway and ended up finishing in 11hrs 20min. Oh well, it was a good lesson and I can't be disappointed as it was just poor training. It was still an amazing event to be part of and the fellow competitors and spectators were wonderful.

Wow, congrats. I'd love to do Comrades at some point. How much of a step up is it from a marathon in terms of training and difficulty?