The Running Thread

[MC Bodge]

Foliage said:

Yep, my main point is don't over think it

I strongly agree. Thinking about too many parameters will be distracting.

Run smoothly, with good form. Cadence, speed etc. will follow.

Heart rate can give an idea of effort, but only if you do the various tests to determine zones and it seems a bit vague anyway.

Do very easy runs, do hard intervals (when you are conditioned to do them)/hills and do sustained effort runs.

[KTF]

cwis said:

What do Vertical Osculation and Ground Contact Time mean? How far you move up and down and how long each foot is on the ground?

[L100NYY]

It's all getting very technical.......I just run 'n stuff

[Gargamel]

L100NYY said:

It's all getting very technical.......I just run 'n stuff

Agreed, put trainers on, head out the door.

Am coming back into some kind of form now after a long lay off (nearly a year) Have run a few, but in the last two weeks have consistently run between 4 - 6 miles every day.

Lower legs smashed to bits, but are hanging on in there. Have had two rest days. Still about 10 minute miles. Will have three days off over the weekend, so will be interested to see what I can run when my legs are properly rested.

[cwis]

KTF said:

What do Vertical Osculation and Ground Contact Time mean? How far you move up and down and how long each foot is on the ground?

Yup!

I think I'm coming into this from a different philosophy to most folk. When I was little I used to do mountain bike races, back when that was fairly new in the UK anyway. I used to go out to train - did long rides for stamina, sprints for speed, hills etc etc.

I used to roll out with the local roadies on my mountain bike (with road tyres) for the stamina bits which used to piss them off immensely as they couldn't drop me on the flat and I could climb far faster than them but that's an aside - hills were what I did. I was something like 8 stone dripping wet and that was mostly leg.

I'm not sure whether heart rate monitors etc were available back then but I certainly couldn't have afforded one - I had a cycle computer that gave speeds and cadence and that was pretty much it.

What I do know now is that during that time probably I wasted a lot of time on the bike "training" because I was going too fast, or too slow, etc. But that was fine because I was a yoof and had plenty of time.

Now I'm not, and I don't. I also don't want to cause any long term injuries doing something I've never done before by picking up bad habits, like over striding.

I was also in a swimming club as a youth which taught young kids how to swim, and if they could swim, how to swim properly and to race if they wanted to. Just local stuff, nothing county level here!

We had the most problems with the second group because their habits were ingrained in their muscle memory and to fix it they had to consciously think about and change their swimming. The non swimmers sometimes progressed far more rapidly to an efficient style. I want to do this with my running.

So I want to use the tools available to me to spend my time training the most efficiently, and to make my form as good as I can.

I've changed my cadence and started to adapt, next it's the breathing - just one thing at a time.

This will all become automatic in a very short time, I'll get fit enough to sustain running and I can then do what you guys do - leave the computer at home and just go out for a run...

Maybe I posted on the wrong thread because by definition you are all runners - you don't have to think about it, you can just run. I'm not (yet) a runner - I have to think about it. Bear with me!

[Foliage]

KTF said:

Foliage said:

5km Tuesday and Thursday morning and 10km on a sunday afternoon.

Are they all at a similar pace? Ideally you would have 1x speed work, 1x mid distance but quicker than long run pace and 1x long run (with maybe a parkrun mixed in as well).

That way your body gets used to running at different pace/distances. If you are going out and doing the same stuff every week then it will take longer to make an impact.

so I should drop one of my 5km runs for a speed work session? what would a speed work session entail?

[ewenm]

cwis said:

...
Maybe I posted on the wrong thread because by definition you are all runners - you don't have to think about it, you can just run. I'm not (yet) a runner - I have to think about it. Bear with me!

No, you're in the right place and your approach is admirable. I'm of the belief that we all run "naturally" as kids but, if we stop running in our teens, we struggle to regain that natural style when we come back to running in adulthood. I've been running for nigh on 30 years now and forever get comments along the lines of "your knees will be shot" etc - if you run efficiently there's no reason for significant impact to ankle/knee/hip joints as the foot and leg muscles are evolved to act as efficient shock absorbers IF you allow them to do so (avoiding heel-striking for example).

I know I'm fortuante to have an efficient running style, but I believe that's a result of being a competitive runner since age 11 so I've never forgotten how to run.

[MC Bodge]

Foliage said:

so I should drop one of my 5km runs for a speed work session? what would a speed work session entail?

Basic Speed Workouts

Start off with fartlek -just varying the pace, 500m at medium pace, running hard up short hills, sprinting then jogging between adjacent lamp posts etc.

Get used to running more quickly.

It is important to build a base of aerobic endurance though. This is something that I am looking to improve over the winter.

Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 19th August 10:34

[ewenm]

Foliage said:

so I should drop one of my 5km runs for a speed work session? what would a speed work session entail?

The principle of the speedwork session is to do roughly race distance at slightly faster than race pace but with recoveries built in. This gets you accustomed to running at a faster pace with decent volume.

Let's say your 5k target is 25mins, so 5mins/km. I'd start with relatively short efforts, so something like 12 efforts of 400m length each targetting times of 2 mins per effort with 2 minutes walk/jog recovery (I'd normally write that as "12x400m in 2 mins with 2 mins rec"). I'd then look at reducing the recovery time to 50% of the effort time (so 1 min in this case) and then gradually upping the effort distances towards 1k efforts. Obviously as you get fitter/faster, you can change the target pace/distance as suits you.

These sessions are HARD. The best approach is consistency - you want all your efforts to be roughly the same time within a few seconds, not wildly varying. That means the first couple of efforts might feel a bit easy, but don't be suckered into pushing too hard too early, you'll pay for that later! Pace-judgement is difficult at first which is where technology comes in if you want/have it.

Where you do this is your choice. You'll get the most accuracy using a running track, but a park or road loop is fine. You need to try to find somewhere without interuptions (i.e. sideroads to cross) so that you can just concentrate on the effort - canal/river paths are good for this.

I'd suggest a standard 3-times-a-week schedule would look something like:
Tues: Speed work
Thurs: Steady run
Weekend: Long run

[MC Bodge]

ewenm said:

No, you're in the right place and your approach is admirable. I'm of the belief that we all run "naturally" as kids but, if we stop running in our teens, we struggle to regain that natural style when we come back to running in adulthood

With hindsight, I ran with a terrible, 'shuffling' style (my Dad used to tell me to "pick your knees up", although I didn't really believe him. Likewise about "keeping your eye on the ball") until I started playing rugby at the age of 12, which required sprinting around the field and tackling people. I found I was quite good at it (the tackling bit) and became known as being 'mobile'. At which point I suddenly got much better at the cross-country runs that we did in PE. At the time I thought I was just fitter, but I suspect that much of it was running technique.

When I began running on the roads at around 15, Nike Air were the trainers of choice and I mostly heel-striked, although even I noticed that I did so less when I tried to run faster.

Years of injuries eventually led to thinner shoes and a mid-foot strike via 2.5 years of calf injuries....

ps. My Dad was right about picking my knees up and keeping my eye on the ball.

[Foliage]

ewenm said:

Foliage said:

so I should drop one of my 5km runs for a speed work session? what would a speed work session entail?

The principle of the speedwork session is to do roughly race distance at slightly faster than race pace but with recoveries built in. This gets you accustomed to running at a faster pace with decent volume.

Let's say your 5k target is 25mins, so 5mins/km. I'd start with relatively short efforts, so something like 12 efforts of 400m length each targetting times of 2 mins per effort with 2 minutes walk/jog recovery (I'd normally write that as "12x400m in 2 mins with 2 mins rec"). I'd then look at reducing the recovery time to 50% of the effort time (so 1 min in this case) and then gradually upping the effort distances towards 1k efforts. Obviously as you get fitter/faster, you can change the target pace/distance as suits you.

These sessions are HARD. The best approach is consistency - you want all your efforts to be roughly the same time within a few seconds, not wildly varying. That means the first couple of efforts might feel a bit easy, but don't be suckered into pushing too hard too early, you'll pay for that later! Pace-judgement is difficult at first which is where technology comes in if you want/have it.

Where you do this is your choice. You'll get the most accuracy using a running track, but a park or road loop is fine. You need to try to find somewhere without interuptions (i.e. sideroads to cross) so that you can just concentrate on the effort - canal/river paths are good for this.

I'd suggest a standard 3-times-a-week schedule would look something like:
Tues: Speed work
Thurs: Steady run
Weekend: Long run

So its like doing couch to 5km but instead of walking I jog and instead of running I run fast or sprint.

I will give this a shot thanks.

I run on treadmill so im thinking
run 400-500m at 12-13kmh then run at 9-10kmh for 1-2mins, 12 times.

[Moulder]

Slightly OT but couldn't think of another forum to ask, has anyone done a Stair Challenge?

I have just signed up for http://www.active8change.com.au/index.php?option=c... Do you go off like the clappers or pace yourself? One step or two steps at a time? Stick to the inside rail or go wide? Just try not to puke by floor 8? Breakfast on pure sugar?

I am relatively fit (48 minute 10k) but am aware this is more a concentrated burst of energy, top male time is 7 minutes, average time (including walkers) 20 minutes. I am not looking to win it but just put on a good show and do the best I can, oh and it is this Sunday so training program's are a bit of a non-starter

I have had a few practice runs in my apartment block (7 floors), the biggest issue was it becomes quite hypnotic and you tend to start tripping up the stairs.

Any (constructive) suggestions gratefully received. Cheers

[ewenm]

Got to pace yourself - the lactate build up will be huge if you go off too hard and will make the end very difficult.

[Roger645]

Anyone here using a Suunto Ambit as the running watch? Having just returned my Garmin Fenix due to its appalling software glitches I'm looking for a new watch and these seem to get good reviews.

[KTF]

What do you need the watch to do?

[L100NYY]

Sorry to interject;

I noticed on my last run a fairly annoying pain in my shoulder........anything that I am doing wrong/should change?

[SpydieNut]

Roger645 said:

Anyone here using a Suunto Ambit as the running watch? Having just returned my Garmin Fenix due to its appalling software glitches I'm looking for a new watch and these seem to get good reviews.

i have the ambit 2 saphire and love it to bits. had it about 2 years now and while i'm sure i don't need everything it does, i find it an amazing bit of kit - i got this as i also cycle and was planning on doing a triathlon at some point in the future.

having said that, my sister got the new garmin 920XT and that's amazing too.

[Dan_1981]

In very very basic terms can someone explain a decent running technique.

I keep reading and hearing all about heel strike and other such terms.

Which bit of your foot should hit the floor?

What should your arms be doing?

Any decent breathing techniques? I find my self "panting" pretty easily.

[Roger645]

KTF said:

What do you need the watch to do?

Multi sport for tri use and upload capability to strava. I did upload .gpx's to the Fenix for some stuff I did around snowdon but not too worried about route stuff tbh. Looking for decent battery life as considering a multi day event next year.

Edited by Roger645 on Friday 21st August 12:00

[KTF]

What about the forerunner 310. £112 from amazon at the moment which is a bargain for what it does:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Garmin-Forerunner-310XT-Mu...