The Running Thread

[Smitters]

ewenm said:

ChiefWiggum said:

Greetings!

Looking for some tips and maybe a little sympathy here (and apologies if this topic was discussed previously - 494 pages is a lot to scan through)

Up until last year I was improving my 10k time and managed a PB 44.23 in 2014. Key was mixing up shorter faster runs/reps with longer sessions, not terribly scientific but got the speed up. A lot of changes lately - new baby, new job and hit 40 - I can hardly manage a single k under 4m30m, let alone 10 of them consecutively! I'm generally able to get in around 17-20k a week but anything below 5m/k feels like a real struggle and my recovery rate is terrible now. Any similar experiences? Either I need to be more meticulous and disciplined with training, or it's time to accept I'm getting older, and look at new challenges like upping the distance.

FWIW, with 2 little-uns I feel like I'm constantly under attack from cold viruses - a few times this year I've had to take 1-2 weeks off running to shift throat/chest infections, which can't help.

Edited by ChiefWiggum on Tuesday 10th November 11:29

Just try to keep ticking over, so rather than not running, just get out for a mile or two. Aerobic fitness will return and you'll see improvements on as little as 3 runs a week.

My dietician friend recommends vitamin D and probiotics to boost the immune system.

As a new dad, beset by colds, and in a new job for the last 18 months, I have to agree - anything you can do to keep ticking over. I've found three things help. 1) a headtorch and a willingness to go out at odd times. 2) Lunchtime running at work. 3) taking an extra few days off to really get rid of the lurgy, instead of pushing things and getting ill again (3 is more of a "should do" than something I really do, but I'm learning...)

[Pvapour]

ewenm said:

Simple interval session is something like minute-on-minute-off, so run hard for 60s, then jog/walk for 60s. An alternative would be lamppost sprints - sprint one lamppost, jog one. Obviously only works in urban areas!

tah, ended up doing 30 / 30 so pretty much the same, was about 2 mins down on my normal 5k time, spose thats right.

an interesting way of varying it, my dog wandered what the hell was going on

[MC Bodge]

ChiefWiggum said:

Greetings!

Looking for some tips and maybe a little sympathy here (and apologies if this topic was discussed previously - 494 pages is a lot to scan through)

Up until last year I was improving my 10k time and managed a PB 44.23 in 2014. Key was mixing up shorter faster runs/reps with longer sessions, not terribly scientific but got the speed up. A lot of changes lately - new baby, new job and hit 40 - I can hardly manage a single k under 4m30m, let alone 10 of them consecutively! I'm generally able to get in around 17-20k a week but anything below 5m/k feels like a real struggle and my recovery rate is terrible now. Any similar experiences? Either I need to be more meticulous and disciplined with training, or it's time to accept I'm getting older, and look at new challenges like upping the distance.

FWIW, with 2 little-uns I feel like I'm constantly under attack from cold viruses - a few times this year I've had to take 1-2 weeks off running to shift throat/chest infections, which can't help.

Edited by ChiefWiggum on Tuesday 10th November 11:29

As a late 30's Father of young children, my exercise and training to a big dip after our first child was born (and due to injuries)

Over the past couple of years I have managed to get back into a better routine:

Biking to work, occasional mid-week evenings and very occasionally early weekend mornings
Running on weekend mornings, at lunchtime or last thing at night.
Yoga
Strength training in my kitchen(!) in the evening or lunchtime at the work gym (when I was at the site that had one)

Finding somebody a bit faster to run with increased my speed to my previous levels.

I'm now fitter than I have been since university and possibly fitter in some ways.

[ChiefWiggum]

Thanks guys for the tips!

Yoga - yes, I'm doing pilates weekly which helps

Routine/time - well I'm (just about) finding time to get the miles in, just that I've lost a lot of speed this year and really struggling to get it back.

Probiotics for colds - some people swear by supplements and others just say snake-oil. Worth a shot this winter though I guess, then I can make up my own mind. Good call.

Running with someone faster - Again a good call. I joined a local club for a while which definitely helped, but my new work / dad routine doesn't really sync with club activities so I lapsed. Any suggestions how to find local run-buddies who might match my routine / capabilities?

Another thing - I've been using the Endomondo app for a few years. I followed a training plan for a while but ended up overdoing it and knackering my knees. The plan didn't seem to cope well with injury/illness breaks, plus seemed like there wasn't a way to dial it down a notch. Anyone suggest an app with really good, customisable training plans for speed/distance?

[ewenm]

My dietician pointed me to Healthspan Elite for my Vit D and probiotics. I too have a young child (just started school) and am 40 next year. I fit miles in on my commute - train halfway then run the rest. I'm doing 40-60 miles a week, mostly in the dark!

[tenohfive]

ewenm said:

My dietician pointed me to Healthspan Elite for my Vit D and probiotics. I too have a young child (just started school) and am 40 next year. I fit miles in on my commute - train halfway then run the rest. I'm doing 40-60 miles a week, mostly in the dark!

I've never seriously considered vitamins before. Worth the expense in your experience?
Half tempted to give some of it a go although it looks like it can get quite pricey quite quickly.

[ewenm]

tenohfive said:

I've never seriously considered vitamins before. Worth the expense in your experience?
Half tempted to give some of it a go although it looks like it can get quite pricey quite quickly.

I've never really bothered with it before but found with my daughter bringing back all sorts of bugs from (pre-) school that I was getting ill all the time. I've not had a heavy cold since I started on the Vit D and probiotics. Vit D because I work indoors and travel early so don't get much daylight/sunlight.

It could be all placebo of course or luck. I don't take them daily, probably only 2-3 times a week.

[tenohfive]

A bit of cynicism is always healthy with these things, but there's probably some sense to it. Worth considering maybe. Wish I could see some sort of magic 'injury recovery,' supplement in the Healthspan list - that I could buy into.

Edited by tenohfive on Wednesday 11th November 19:42

[eric twinge]

I managed this at lunchtime, not too sure where it came from as I wasn't looking at going out and going for it but as soon as I stepped out of the office it felt right. My previously quickest 6 miles was 48 mins or so and that was earlier in the year. Just seemed to keep up the pace, pavements seemed reasonably clear and I went for it.
I was buzzing all afternoon!

[tenohfive]

Nice when you have one of those runs where everything just seems to go well. Knocking 2 minutes off is no mean feat, good work

[The jiffle king]

I've done 5 very different runs in 5 days

Saturday - tempo run on own after my wife's birthday night and I managed to do 2 tempo miles at 6:24 pace, but then fancied carrying on, so did another at 6:27 which was a good return

Sunday - Ran with my wife and accidently ran 9.7 miles on a very hilly course but I think we spent about 1 mile on flat surfaces with the rest being mainly up according to my wife

Monday - Was in Tennessee so went for a run around Chatanooga parks and across a number of bridges

Tuesday - Fancied a trail run, so went to Stringers ridge which was incredibly tough trails. Link below is to the trails which are shared with mountain bikers and we did 6 incredible miles with views of the mountains. It was 10/min mile, but brutally tough and great fun
http://www.outdoorchattanooga.com/land/stringers-r...

Wednesday - back at the club in Georgia and the fast guy turned up and after a slower first mile, we average 6:44 for the overall run on yet another hilly course, so feel that I had a real workout and that I'm getting close to being in shape to tackle a 5 or 10k

Whats strange is that despite all of the runs being different in terms of speed/duration/setting, they were all good fun and I realized that I just like being outdoors (so why do I have an office job?)

[cwis]

Smug! Cracked 30 mins for my 5K last night as part of a 7K run - the goal I had when I started running in August. If I hadn't stopped to cross a road I'd have cracked 29 minutes.

Now I'm going to have to get used to Km splits that start with a 5...

Next goal - get my 10K under an hour. I've been putting in 3 runs a week all at threshold pace (because I'm so slow!) so I think now is the time to increase my runs to 4 maybe 5 a week, and learn to run slower on some of them otherwise I won't be able to do them without recovering between them.

My tempo pace is about 6:15m/km currently so one or two longer road runs at a lower pace then this to keep me in zone three (maybe do some fartlek in one) added to my current two off road hilly runs and my flat longer slowish run on the weekend should keep me progressing and keep my form improving. I don't even think about cadence any more and it averages around 178 so it's pretty much where I want it.

Since I started my resting heart rate has dropped from 61 to 52, I've lost about 2 inches round my waist and put on half a stone of muscle - mostly calves and bum!

One day I'll overtake another runner...

[johnwilliams77]

cwis said:

Smug! Cracked 30 mins for my 5K last night as part of a 7K run - the goal I had when I started running in August. If I hadn't stopped to cross a road I'd have cracked 29 minutes.

Now I'm going to have to get used to Km splits that start with a 5...

Next goal - get my 10K under an hour. I've been putting in 3 runs a week all at threshold pace (because I'm so slow!) so I think now is the time to increase my runs to 4 maybe 5 a week, and learn to run slower on some of them otherwise I won't be able to do them without recovering between them.

My tempo pace is about 6:15m/km currently so one or two longer road runs at a lower pace then this to keep me in zone three (maybe do some fartlek in one) added to my current two off road hilly runs and my flat longer slowish run on the weekend should keep me progressing and keep my form improving. I don't even think about cadence any more and it averages around 178 so it's pretty much where I want it.

Since I started my resting heart rate has dropped from 61 to 52, I've lost about 2 inches round my waist and put on half a stone of muscle - mostly calves and bum!

One day I'll overtake another runner...

Well done to you. I am starting week 4 of couch to 5k today and so will hopefully have my sub 30min 5k time before christmas. Even on week 3 though there have been moments of the 3min runs I have wanted to stop!

[cwis]

johnwilliams77 said:

Well done to you. I am starting week 4 of couch to 5k today and so will hopefully have my sub 30min 5k time before christmas. Even on week 3 though there have been moments of the 3min runs I have wanted to stop!

Cheers!

Make sure you're not going too fast. I found (before I actually started doing C25K) that I could already run 5K (in 38 minutes) if I was running with someone who knew what they were doing, as I always started off too fast by myself.

I still DID the C25K program (well most of it) - as advised by the grownups in this thread, and found it very helpful. I stopped in week 7, as I could by then run 10K (in an hour and 10, so starting to get quicker).

I started doing hills and trail running instead, again as advised - they know their stuff this lot!

I'm seriously thinking about joining a club now, for regular runs and advice and I'm considering a half marathon next year.

Running thread, you've made a runner out of me!

[ewenm]

cwis said:

Cheers!

Make sure you're not going too fast. I found (before I actually started doing C25K) that I could already run 5K (in 38 minutes) if I was running with someone who knew what they were doing, as I always started off too fast by myself.

I still DID the C25K program (well most of it) - as advised by the grownups in this thread, and found it very helpful. I stopped in week 7, as I could by then run 10K (in an hour and 10, so starting to get quicker).

I started doing hills and trail running instead, again as advised - they know their stuff this lot!

I'm seriously thinking about joining a club now, for regular runs and advice and I'm considering a half marathon next year.

Running thread, you've made a runner out of me!

As (probably) one of the grownups, we're very proud of your achievements. I've had similar discussions around parkrun before - it's a lot easier for regular runners to keep running than it is for newbies to start. parkrun and C25k are two excellent ways to get into running and IMO are far more valuable than hosting the Olympics (for example).

The elite will always be there and generally don't need much assistance/encouragement. Getting more people doing some regular exercise is a much better goal.

[cwis]

ewenm said:

As (probably) one of the grownups, we're very proud of your achievements. I've had similar discussions around parkrun before - it's a lot easier for regular runners to keep running than it is for newbies to start. parkrun and C25k are two excellent ways to get into running and IMO are far more valuable than hosting the Olympics (for example).

The elite will always be there and generally don't need much assistance/encouragement. Getting more people doing some regular exercise is a much better goal.

You should be proud - the encouragement and the "can do" attitude from this thread definitely helped, let alone the sage advice. Here are the key ones that have stuck in my mind:

ewenm said:

An average cadence of 180spm is supposedly "ideal" but there's some variation. In general you want to be trying to land on the ball of your foot with it directly under your body.

Dan_1981 said:

From another newbie - get the couch to 5k app.

Use it.

KTF said:

If you want a GPS, something that measures time and distance will be more than enough and is what most people are interested in anyway. A garmin forerunner 10 would be ideal for this and you can upload the stats, etc. afterwards if you like that sort of thing:

MC Bodge said:

Don't push too hard/far/soon.

The jiffle king said:

cwis - To get faster you need to do a few things:

1) Run longer than 5k to build up your stamina. If you are able to run 10k, then your 5k time will be faster. (1 of your 3 weekly sessions should be a long run)
2) Run fast for longer (tempo)to build speed endurance and you should start off by running 0.5 miles at faster than the pace you want to run the 5k at and build this up to 2 miles
3) Do some speedwork (but start this carefully and don't go nuts) This is 8 x 400m reps and will build your speed.

Greg66 said:

Arms bent at the elbow and moving forward/aft. Not crossing across your chest.

Foliage said:

Don't over think it

Amongst many others. Thanks all!

[MC Bodge]

ewenm said:

parkrun and C25k are two excellent ways to get into running and IMO are far more valuable than hosting the Olympics (for example).

The elite will always be there and generally don't need much assistance/encouragement. Getting more people doing some regular exercise is a much better goal.

Excellent point.

Hosting the Olympics is a vanity project. I don't think many of the people I know have been encouraged to take up sport as a result of London 2012.

Lance Armstrong (pre scandals) and Bradley Wiggins/Team Sky/GB in the Tour De France have arguably helped popularise road cycling amongst the men-folk of the UK and US in the past decade.

[SpydieNut]

I agree - I think the parkruns are great. Doesn't matter on level of ability - you can (if you're able to) race around in sub 20, or better, or, if you have to jog/walk, or want to do it with your kid, can take an hour if needed. The camaraderie is very nice too.

I'm far off the pace of a lot on here, but that's not important (although i do respect that kind of ability and dedication massively ) - what is important is that I am back to running (after an injury), am enjoying it and keeping fit. I compete against myself.......*almost* entirely . I don't go in for races, but do like the thrill of placing at the parkruns, although i realise it's a very small field .

So although the forecast for tomorrow is for rain, rain and more rain, I'm looking forward to the local parkrun, to getting my trail shoes on and getting soaking wet and muddy, as we go around some local football fields . It was a blast last week (although i forgot my trail shoes and had to run around with my worn road shoes - whoa, just a bit slippy )

i even ordered myself some of the parkrun tags today, so i don't have to carry that large piece of paper (even if laminated) with the barcode on.

enjoy the weekend

[The jiffle king]

Cwis - Congratulations on cracking 30 minutes and keeping the focus on the next target. It's always great to hear about people meeting their goals and setting the next ones

[Cybertronian]

Whatever you do, Cwis, don't lose the momentum you've gained, even if that means having to take it much easier some weeks than others to avoid injury/illness. As Ewen said above, it's so much easier to continue training and build on those gains than it is to start from scratch.

My wife has done Couch to 5k a handful of times, but then always stops running after she 'graduates' to Parkrun and treats it as a one-off end goal, and loses that new found fitness. Asking her to accompany me to Parkrun, her stock excuse is usually "I haven't run in ages and want to be able to run 5k again before going back to Parkrun". My logic to her is that by going to Parkrun and completing it, even with walk breaks, she'd sooner get back to being able to run 5k without stopping versus doing nothing, which is the case right now.

So, how about that weather outside? Not looking forward to my long run on Sunday, where at least half of it will be directly into the 20mph headwind!