The Running Thread
Discussion
I need around 4 hours after food or I just feel sluggish.
First run in just over 3 weeks. 8.5k running around 4.45km pace. I could really feel my knees and hip after the break but I did not want to make the same mistake as I did after the last marathon and attempt a recovery run after 3 days. That stopped me being able to run more than once a week for a few weeks. I did feel quite knackered but as the weather is now turning, I am looking forward to some good winter running over the coming months.
First run in just over 3 weeks. 8.5k running around 4.45km pace. I could really feel my knees and hip after the break but I did not want to make the same mistake as I did after the last marathon and attempt a recovery run after 3 days. That stopped me being able to run more than once a week for a few weeks. I did feel quite knackered but as the weather is now turning, I am looking forward to some good winter running over the coming months.
tenohfive said:
If coming back from injury then what you say makes perfect sense. But a break through choice and illness can be treated differently surely - no risk of exacerbating an injury, it's just a case of building fitness.
If taking time off was through choice my take would be similar though - take it easy, let your form come back slowly, and most importantly don't risk pushing yourself so hard that it's not fun. With the days getting shorter, windier, wetter and colder motivation is something that needs preserving.
I would take the same amount of time as illness can drain the body. It's your choice, but I've been stupid too many timesIf taking time off was through choice my take would be similar though - take it easy, let your form come back slowly, and most importantly don't risk pushing yourself so hard that it's not fun. With the days getting shorter, windier, wetter and colder motivation is something that needs preserving.
Edited by tenohfive on Monday 16th November 20:40
Edited by tenohfive on Monday 16th November 20:41
Whats the best way to measure distance and time when your training for events?
Im signing up to half marathon next year and although I have used the 'Nike Running App' before whats the best way to keep a track of times, and distances? App or watch?
Also if you know you have a certain distance to run that day do you pre-plan your route or just go out running and go with the flow?
Im signing up to half marathon next year and although I have used the 'Nike Running App' before whats the best way to keep a track of times, and distances? App or watch?
Also if you know you have a certain distance to run that day do you pre-plan your route or just go out running and go with the flow?
If you're happy carrying a phone there's plenty of apps, Strava probably being one of the most common. The advantage of a watch is it's easier to see while you're running, so easier to use it to pace yourself (although some phone apps can call out such info at intervals). Some watches also do more advanced features like Virtual Partner (Garmin's name for it, other manufacturers have similar systems) to allow you to set a planned pace and then track your pace in terms of time/distance ahead/behind your planned pace.
A GPS watch will generally be more accurate than a smartphone app. More convenient, too, since you can just glance at the screen whenever you take a fancy rather than having to fish the phone out of a pocket or armband holder and risk dropping it. A Garmin FR10 can be had for easily less than £100 these days and is a good piece of entry level kit.
As for plotting a route, I use the MapMyRun website to get an approximate distance before I set off. Not so important if you have familiar and favourite routes, but I find it useful if I'm looking to up my mileage for marathon training, or if I'm visiting somewhere new for work and need a 6 mile route in an unfamiliar location.
As for plotting a route, I use the MapMyRun website to get an approximate distance before I set off. Not so important if you have familiar and favourite routes, but I find it useful if I'm looking to up my mileage for marathon training, or if I'm visiting somewhere new for work and need a 6 mile route in an unfamiliar location.
Edited by Cybertronian on Thursday 19th November 16:08
Well, it's official, I'm a (slow) runner - I've joined a club.
I went out with the local running club last night for a social 7K and a meet and greet - I thought we were doing 5K and was surprised when we got back and I looked at my watch!
I suppose that's the benefit of running in groups! Seem like a lovely bunch, some slower than me, some (much, much!) faster. I got lots of advice, a bunch of people to follow on Strava and much encouragement.
The Cwis guide to slow running, based on recent experience:
Running downhill makes your shins hurt (the next day)
Running uphill makes your calves hurt (the next couple of days)
Running quickly makes your thighs hurt (the next couple of days)
Running off road makes everything below the neck hurt (for more days than convenient). It appears to be great for core strength.
Running tempo (top of zone three) makes your ribs hurt (the next day)
Running threshold (top of zone four) makes you hurl. And your ribs, abs and shoulders hurt (for the next couple of days)
Running with loose shoes gives you blisters the size of Hertfordshire on the sides of your feet. Which you don't feel until you get in a hot bath when you get home. THEN they smart a bit.
Running with tight shoes gives you interesting bruises UNDER your toenails. That never fade, apparently. I suppose they will grow out eventually.
Running with a posh CREE LED head torch makes your eyes hurt when you look at a reflective road sign. You then get covered in scratches when you run into the (now invisible) hawthorn hedge. High Wycombe 3, apparently. I can still see it now - I think it's given me arc eye...
Running after a meal makes your legs feel amazingly strong, but you will slosh. And then hurl.
Running checklist:
Do your running tights up if you put your phone in the back pocket. Don't ask me how I know.
Have a wee before you do them up. If you don't, you'll want one immediately - just like motorbike waterproof trousers.
Don't run a route for the first time in the woods in the dark. All the trees look the same, and a 5K will turn into a 10K. You will pop out of the woods into an anonymous farmyard, and then run for 20 minutes in entirely the wrong direction.
Don't charge off at high speed initially. You will hurl.
Don't end a run with a steep hill. You will hurl.
I went out with the local running club last night for a social 7K and a meet and greet - I thought we were doing 5K and was surprised when we got back and I looked at my watch!
I suppose that's the benefit of running in groups! Seem like a lovely bunch, some slower than me, some (much, much!) faster. I got lots of advice, a bunch of people to follow on Strava and much encouragement.
The Cwis guide to slow running, based on recent experience:
Running downhill makes your shins hurt (the next day)
Running uphill makes your calves hurt (the next couple of days)
Running quickly makes your thighs hurt (the next couple of days)
Running off road makes everything below the neck hurt (for more days than convenient). It appears to be great for core strength.
Running tempo (top of zone three) makes your ribs hurt (the next day)
Running threshold (top of zone four) makes you hurl. And your ribs, abs and shoulders hurt (for the next couple of days)
Running with loose shoes gives you blisters the size of Hertfordshire on the sides of your feet. Which you don't feel until you get in a hot bath when you get home. THEN they smart a bit.
Running with tight shoes gives you interesting bruises UNDER your toenails. That never fade, apparently. I suppose they will grow out eventually.
Running with a posh CREE LED head torch makes your eyes hurt when you look at a reflective road sign. You then get covered in scratches when you run into the (now invisible) hawthorn hedge. High Wycombe 3, apparently. I can still see it now - I think it's given me arc eye...
Running after a meal makes your legs feel amazingly strong, but you will slosh. And then hurl.
Running checklist:
Do your running tights up if you put your phone in the back pocket. Don't ask me how I know.
Have a wee before you do them up. If you don't, you'll want one immediately - just like motorbike waterproof trousers.
Don't run a route for the first time in the woods in the dark. All the trees look the same, and a 5K will turn into a 10K. You will pop out of the woods into an anonymous farmyard, and then run for 20 minutes in entirely the wrong direction.
Don't charge off at high speed initially. You will hurl.
Don't end a run with a steep hill. You will hurl.
Cwis - just don't become the recruiting person for the running club ! (or your hurl)
Still getting out there for a plod, but don't feel I am making much progress. Two runs a week, a 5 and a 7 miles run. Speed not improving much still basically at 9.30mm - though do keep in mind this is tough trail running on sandy hills.
I suppose the answer is another run per week and some speed work, but I am struggling to find the time.
Occasionally I run with someone with a Garmin, I use Map My Run, they vary by about 5% on distance... but mostly that is due to elevation changes I think.
Challo said:
Whats the best way to measure distance and time when your training for events?
Im signing up to half marathon next year and although I have used the 'Nike Running App' before whats the best way to keep a track of times, and distances? App or watch?
Also if you know you have a certain distance to run that day do you pre-plan your route or just go out running and go with the flow?
Either watch or phone is fine, but as others have said there's a convenience factor with a watch. Loads of apps but Strava is one of the better ones in my experience; as much as anything it's convenient being able to refer to any run I've done on the phone, the tablet or the PC. Plenty of things recorded in the runs too even with the free membership (I don't pay) and it'll match a given route to previous runs to let you know how you're getting on.Im signing up to half marathon next year and although I have used the 'Nike Running App' before whats the best way to keep a track of times, and distances? App or watch?
Also if you know you have a certain distance to run that day do you pre-plan your route or just go out running and go with the flow?
For route planning I use a GPS route planner that uses OS mapping as it includes distance and ascent, and most of my runs are off road:
http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/maps/
The more religiously you plot out the waypoints the more accurate the distance and ascent is, but I find it's good to within 100m over 10K or so without being too careful plotting. You can then export it to a .gpx which is a standard for nav software to follow - if it's a route I don't know I'll use Viewranger when I'm getting close to a junction to make sure I take the right one. If your GPS watch will allow you to follow a pre-planned route then .gpx files will also work with that.
If your running is all on roads it's probably overkill though.
ewenm said:
I find I need to leave at least 2 hours between eating and running.
I am not long finished my run. 3 x 5min runs with 3min walk in between. This is week 5 day 1. Day 3 of week 5 is a 20min continuous run which will be quite an achievement for me. I feel great after these runs so I can't see myself stopping.I had very little food all afternoon and still felt the onset of a stitch at my right rib. Maybe I need more stretching before running. Annoying but not yet sore enough to stop me.
Ran the Queenstown Marathon yesterday with the target of a sub 3h 30m time which up to around the 25km mark was on. Hit the wall hard at 25km with backs of my legs and hips not wanting to do anymore despite the first half of the marathon being relaxed and loose. Ended up with a time of 3h 47m which was devastating given the amount of training I had done and convinced myself that I would do it.
Has anyone else had a similar experience and been able to work through it with different training ideas? I'm keen to try work it out to get under the 3h 30m marathon, so would appreciate any suggestions.
Has anyone else had a similar experience and been able to work through it with different training ideas? I'm keen to try work it out to get under the 3h 30m marathon, so would appreciate any suggestions.
cannondale said:
Ran the Queenstown Marathon yesterday with the target of a sub 3h 30m time which up to around the 25km mark was on. Hit the wall hard at 25km with backs of my legs and hips not wanting to do anymore despite the first half of the marathon being relaxed and loose. Ended up with a time of 3h 47m which was devastating given the amount of training I had done and convinced myself that I would do it.
Has anyone else had a similar experience and been able to work through it with different training ideas? I'm keen to try work it out to get under the 3h 30m marathon, so would appreciate any suggestions.
kHas anyone else had a similar experience and been able to work through it with different training ideas? I'm keen to try work it out to get under the 3h 30m marathon, so would appreciate any suggestions.
I am not sure that is my definition of hitting the wall, which in my opinion is when your body runs out of energy to process and you bonk.
Clearly you need to look at your fluid intake and whether you took on any sugar or calories at all I the race.
Some analysis of your pacing might be useful too, consistent? or a bit up and down, perhaps a slow start and the some faster k's just before the pain?
it sounds to me like a cramp attack. Unusual as well since most people cramp above 35k, whereas this attack seems relatively early in the race.
Be honest what did you drink/eat?
By the way, I'd be flipping delighted with any sub four..... so congratulations!
Like you, I've had a sub-3:30 marathon in my sights for a couple of years and have still yet to achieve one.
In my training, I had no shortage of endurance with my longest training run at 23 miles, and the total of my 5 longest runs adding up to over 100 miles as per a number of recommendations out there. No shortage of speed either, with my 5k PB at 19:18 during that period. Problem I had was not bridging those two elements together with tempo runs covering the middle paces, somewhere between marathon and half marathon pace. I didn't do enough race pace training and as such, marathon pace didn't feel as easy as it should have.
The thing with the marathon is that any problem I encounter gets magnified due to the distance. In my last marathon, I didn't sleep well and the weather was much warmer than I had anticipated; I chose to ignore those two things and still went out at target pace, rather than dial it back slightly for the first half and re-evaluate things come halfway.
In my training, I had no shortage of endurance with my longest training run at 23 miles, and the total of my 5 longest runs adding up to over 100 miles as per a number of recommendations out there. No shortage of speed either, with my 5k PB at 19:18 during that period. Problem I had was not bridging those two elements together with tempo runs covering the middle paces, somewhere between marathon and half marathon pace. I didn't do enough race pace training and as such, marathon pace didn't feel as easy as it should have.
The thing with the marathon is that any problem I encounter gets magnified due to the distance. In my last marathon, I didn't sleep well and the weather was much warmer than I had anticipated; I chose to ignore those two things and still went out at target pace, rather than dial it back slightly for the first half and re-evaluate things come halfway.
Edited by Cybertronian on Sunday 22 November 08:05
Gargamel said:
k
I am not sure that is my definition of hitting the wall, which in my opinion is when your body runs out of energy to process and you bonk.
Clearly you need to look at your fluid intake and whether you took on any sugar or calories at all I the race.
Some analysis of your pacing might be useful too, consistent? or a bit up and down, perhaps a slow start and the some faster k's just before the pain?
it sounds to me like a cramp attack. Unusual as well since most people cramp above 35k, whereas this attack seems relatively early in the race.
Be honest what did you drink/eat?
By the way, I'd be flipping delighted with any sub four..... so congratulations!
Maybe hitting the wall wasn't the best turn of phrase. The first 10k was paced well with each km within 5 secs of each other. Next 10k were within 15-20s of each other. Given the undulating terrain, this is in my opinion pretty damn good. My pace fluctuates hugely from 30km on, which is when my legs just didn't have the oomph to keep going. You'll see if you look at my run in the Pistonheads club Strava feed.I am not sure that is my definition of hitting the wall, which in my opinion is when your body runs out of energy to process and you bonk.
Clearly you need to look at your fluid intake and whether you took on any sugar or calories at all I the race.
Some analysis of your pacing might be useful too, consistent? or a bit up and down, perhaps a slow start and the some faster k's just before the pain?
it sounds to me like a cramp attack. Unusual as well since most people cramp above 35k, whereas this attack seems relatively early in the race.
Be honest what did you drink/eat?
By the way, I'd be flipping delighted with any sub four..... so congratulations!
For the first two hours I was getting a gel down me at 30 minute intervals with electrolytes in water sipped throughout. I managed about 4 gels before my stomach couldn't take anymore.
I think Cybertronian might be onto something with the marathon pacing and being able to ease off given the environmental and your own physical condition.
I think a more regimented and structured training plan is probably going to have come into play if I'm ever to get sub 3h 30s. I only managed to take circa 3 minutes off last years time, despite the training almost doubling from last year.
johnwilliams77 said:
I am not long finished my run. 3 x 5min runs with 3min walk in between. This is week 5 day 1. Day 3 of week 5 is a 20min continuous run which will be quite an achievement for me. I feel great after these runs so I can't see myself stopping.
I had very little food all afternoon and still felt the onset of a stitch at my right rib. Maybe I need more stretching before running. Annoying but not yet sore enough to stop me.
Some anti-stitch tips from Runners WorldI had very little food all afternoon and still felt the onset of a stitch at my right rib. Maybe I need more stretching before running. Annoying but not yet sore enough to stop me.
cannondale said:
Maybe hitting the wall wasn't the best turn of phrase. The first 10k was paced well with each km within 5 secs of each other. Next 10k were within 15-20s of each other. Given the undulating terrain, this is in my opinion pretty damn good. My pace fluctuates hugely from 30km on, which is when my legs just didn't have the oomph to keep going. You'll see if you look at my run in the Pistonheads club Strava feed.
For the first two hours I was getting a gel down me at 30 minute intervals with electrolytes in water sipped throughout. I managed about 4 gels before my stomach couldn't take anymore.
I think Cybertronian might be onto something with the marathon pacing and being able to ease off given the environmental and your own physical condition.
I think a more regimented and structured training plan is probably going to have come into play if I'm ever to get sub 3h 30s. I only managed to take circa 3 minutes off last years time, despite the training almost doubling from last year.
What gels were you using ? & do you know if they were isotonic ? Normally need to drink 250-400ml of water per gel to get it into your system otherwise they just sit there. I've been through 20+ in a day (slow IM distance tri) but couldn't do it without drinking the water.For the first two hours I was getting a gel down me at 30 minute intervals with electrolytes in water sipped throughout. I managed about 4 gels before my stomach couldn't take anymore.
I think Cybertronian might be onto something with the marathon pacing and being able to ease off given the environmental and your own physical condition.
I think a more regimented and structured training plan is probably going to have come into play if I'm ever to get sub 3h 30s. I only managed to take circa 3 minutes off last years time, despite the training almost doubling from last year.
Either way sub 4 is a very decent time so congrats on that !
On the gels front, I've got my first half marathon coming up. I've started taking gels before and during runs just to adjust and find out what agrees with me. Not really getting on with the isotonic ones I've tried (SIS) but fine with non isotonic ones (Gu.) If I were to go with an electrolyte drink instead of isotonic gels, what sort of quantity am I looking at for a half marathon type distance (albeit offroad and over steep/rough terrain)?
tenohfive said:
On the gels front, I've got my first half marathon coming up. I've started taking gels before and during runs just to adjust and find out what agrees with me. Not really getting on with the isotonic ones I've tried (SIS) but fine with non isotonic ones (Gu.) If I were to go with an electrolyte drink instead of isotonic gels, what sort of quantity am I looking at for a half marathon type distance (albeit offroad and over steep/rough terrain)?
For me, I like to pack 2 or 3 gels for a half marathon. Do I physically get a boost from them? At least partly, yes, but for me I like the slight mental pick-me-up they provide (they're caffeinated and isotonic). That and I'm rubbish at drinking from cups, which smaller races tend to provide drinks in.Are you looking to carry the drink from the start, or do you mean one that you'd pick up on the course? Depending on how hard you're pushing it or how you feel on the day, you may find you only need a few swigs or may make use of an entire bottle. With the recent low temperatures, you'll possibly find you can get away with a lot less intake versus the spring/summer.
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