The Running Thread

[Locke]

ewenm said:

Intervals are a good solution and the usual rule-of-thumb is to have up to half the rest of your effort. So if your mile is taking 6 mins, have a 2-3min recovery before the next. 60s recovery is good for strength but will harm your speed in the reps (probably!).

The other key thing is to be consistent. It's better to do all the reps at 6min/mile rather than the first at 5:45 then 5:50 - 6:00 - 6:20 - 6:40.

Another alternative is hill reps - find a medium steepness hill and sprint up it, jog down, repeat. It should be steep enough that it's a tough effort but not so steep that you can't run up it with decent form.

Yeah thanks for that, I was really struggeling with only 1 min rests between miles but just though I shouldn't rest for longer than a 1 min between reps, My times were getting slightly slower each time through out. Will see if I can keep the mile times more consistant with 2 min rest and if not move up to 2.30 mins. Thanks.

Might try a fartlek session as well sometime but don't like there is no structure to them, although that's the point.

[E38Ross]

m444ttb said:

What's the thinking on the hills? We tend to mix up how we do them but it's always hills of some kind.

A longer steady run is meant to be the idea on Sunday. Need to up my motivation for it though!

EDIT: The other running I do, once a month, is a 3k handicap at work. Unfortunately I've missed the last two so I'm way behind on points!

I get bored easily so have quite a few 5-6.2 mile routes to run. I get bored too easily doing the same route week in week out

i wouldn't do hills every week. or if you do...do fewer of them and then do some flat running efforts too. why not drive somewhere nice for a run every now and again to mix it up a bit? 6.2 miles nowhere near enough for a long steady run. if you struggle for motivation either go somewhere nice to do it (where abouts are you based??) or get someone else from your group to do it...surely someone will?

Locke said:

Yeah thanks for that, I was really struggeling with only 1 min rests between miles but just though I shouldn't rest for longer than a 1 min between reps, My times were getting slightly slower each time through out. Will see if I can keep the mile times more consistant with 2 min rest and if not move up to 2.30 mins. Thanks.

Might try a fartlek session as well sometime but don't like there is no structure to them, although that's the point.

fartlek can have a structure to them...though that's when they become interval training....they can be one and the same. e.g. 3mins hard, 1 min jog, 3mins hard, 1 min jog etc etc. a session we do every now and again is 1min hard, 1min slow, 2mins hard, 2mins slow and so on to 5mins hard/5mins slow then back down to 1min efforts again with the idea being they are paced differently (i.e. 1min efforts quicker than the 5min effort). or you could do it by distance, such as 1km hard, 200m slow and so on....just make anything up that's reasonably sensible for the goals you want to achieve.

what are you training for/what are your goals? (distances and times)

[UpTheIron]

So D-day (well M-day) is almost here.

Training has been a bit stop-start and thanks to foot problems and self doubt I've gone from being supremely confident of a sub 3 marathon (I was turning out "comfortable" 18 mile training runs in under 2 hours last summer) to struggling with tibialis posterior problems and finding similar runs a real struggle and a few minutes slower.

I recently did a hilly 18 mile race in 2:02 (9th - I hate hills!) and a post curry and beers 18 miles in 2:05 a couple of weeks ago but I just don't feel as good as I should.

I'll be checking in back here on Sunday afternoon either very happy and with a new sub 3 PB (not likely, but not totally out of the question I guess) or more likely I'll have blown up at about 20 miles and crawled in at around 3:30!

[E38Ross]

good luck uptheiron.

i'm contemplating buying another pair of shoes

http://www.asics.co.uk/running/products/piranha-sp...

can get them for under £80.....a pair of shoes that weigh 120g!!!! my DS racers are a shade over 200g. those piranhas must be around the same weight as my zoom miler track spikes! absurd.

thing is....120g of shoe really can't offer much protection at all and so are purely going to be either a shoe for track work or just races....that's it. i'm not sure whether to just stick with the DS racers or to try these out.

what do you guys reckon?

edit - they're lighter than my track spikes!! WTF!!

Edited by E38Ross on Thursday 19th April 11:52

[john2443]

spikeyhead said:

................. I'll be fit enough to do a 5k parkrun by the summer.

parkrun isn't only for people who can run fast all the way round, walking, walk/running, jogging are all encouraged and welcomed*, so you don't need to get up to a standard before you do one.

• sneaky tip no1 - turn up one day and tag on the end the you can gauge whether you'll be left behind or not, then you can peel of an pretend you were just out for a stroll

• sneaky tip no2 - volunteer to be back marker

[ewenm]

E38Ross said:

good luck uptheiron.

i'm contemplating buying another pair of shoes

http://www.asics.co.uk/running/products/piranha-sp...

can get them for under £80.....a pair of shoes that weigh 120g!!!! my DS racers are a shade over 200g. those piranhas must be around the same weight as my zoom miler track spikes! absurd.

thing is....120g of shoe really can't offer much protection at all and so are purely going to be either a shoe for track work or just races....that's it. i'm not sure whether to just stick with the DS racers or to try these out.

what do you guys reckon?

edit - they're lighter than my track spikes!! WTF!!

If you can afford to have a pair of trainers you purely use for road racing and perhaps short track sessions then go for it. I' be less concerned about protection, and more about how long they'd last.

My shoe collection is currently this:
Race: Steeplechase spikes (Nike), XC spikes (Adidas), Fell/MT shoes (Inov8), Road race shoes (Asics)
Training: Lightweights (Asics & Nike), Road Mileage (Asics), Offroad Mileage (Nike)

[E38Ross]

what inov8 shoes do you use for off-road? i need a pair of trail shoes really as when i know i'm going on a mixed trail run i usually use a pair of old road shoes that i don't mind getting muddy....cue me slipping all over the place.

currently i have:

track spikes (nike zoom miler); XC spikes (brooks); road training/lighter road shoe (3x asics gel ds trainer....yes, 3 pairs!); road race/fast training/longer track work (Asics gel ds racer); distance road shoe (some other brooks shoe, can't recall model).

i really am missing a good off road shoe!

[ewenm]

For offroad/mixed terrain training runs I use Nike Pegasus Trail.
For fell/multi-terrain races use Inov8 RocLite (I think!).

[E38Ross]

ewenm said:

For offroad/mixed terrain training runs I use Nike Pegasus Trail.
For fell/multi-terrain races use Inov8 RocLite (I think!).

thanks ewenm - i think the roclite's are just the sort of thing i'm after. what do they fit like compared to asics size wise? with both the DS racer and DS trainer i'm a size 9.

would these shoes be suitable for MT races, where there are big mixes of road and off-road?

could really do with a pair of these

[ewenm]

They are a bit narrower than my Asics but I take a 10 in both Asics and Inov8. I'd recommend trying them on before you buy though.

They are sometimes a bit squirmy on tarmac as the knobbles move a bit against the hard surface but it's not all that noticable. Inov8 do a variety of different tread patterns but I think the RocLite are their most tarmac-friendly.

[anonymous-user]

Since we're doing shoe collections.....
Race: 400m/800m spikes (Adidas Adistar MD), 1500m/3000m spikes (Nike Victory xc), Brooks xc spikes (tough and trusty), Nike lunaracers.
Off-Road: Inov8 mudclaw 330 (for seriously muddy stuff)
Road/Mileage: Mizuno wave riders and Nike Vomeros

I'd be wary of the lightweight Asics. I ran a road 10k in my Lunaracers and I ran something awful for the last mile or so as my knees decided to pack in for the day with the pounding they'd taken. However it could just be me!
The mudclaws are good for very very muddy stuff but they tend to clog up quickly in anything that remotely resembles clay, and the studs are extremely aggressive so I can only do short road sections in them. Roclites are meant to be quite good though.

ETA: with the Inov8's the toe box tends to be very small, it's worth trying on a pair just to ensure they're not too restrictive

[E38Ross]

Thanks chaps, need to find someone who stocks them then!

[E38Ross]

oh mighty ewenm....these the shoes you have?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003ZJRGQE/ref=...

they do various roclite shoes which vary in weight but the 295 (295g) seems pretty light and appears to have decent tread and can be run on trail and tarmac which is what i'm after really. think i'm going to struggle finding a store with those exact shoes in store so may just order a pair and if they don't fit just get a refund.

hmmmm, decisions!

[Locke]

E38Ross said:

Locke said:

Yeah thanks for that, I was really struggeling with only 1 min rests between miles but just though I shouldn't rest for longer than a 1 min between reps, My times were getting slightly slower each time through out. Will see if I can keep the mile times more consistant with 2 min rest and if not move up to 2.30 mins. Thanks.

Might try a fartlek session as well sometime but don't like there is no structure to them, although that's the point.

fartlek can have a structure to them...though that's when they become interval training....they can be one and the same. e.g. 3mins hard, 1 min jog, 3mins hard, 1 min jog etc etc. a session we do every now and again is 1min hard, 1min slow, 2mins hard, 2mins slow and so on to 5mins hard/5mins slow then back down to 1min efforts again with the idea being they are paced differently (i.e. 1min efforts quicker than the 5min effort). or you could do it by distance, such as 1km hard, 200m slow and so on....just make anything up that's reasonably sensible for the goals you want to achieve.

what are you training for/what are your goals? (distances and times)

My main goal at the moment is to get a sub 18:00 at Parkrun and secondly I would also like to improve on the fells in the 5-7 mile range.

[Locke]

Not done a run since Saturday Parkrun as I've been busy travelling too and from London this week as I've had things to sort out.

Thought I'd go out for a "steady" run on my regular (and rather hilly) 4.43 mile route when I finished work tonight. Within 4 minuets of running I thought "sod this" and began to pick up the pace as I felt really good when I reached the top of the first 0.8 mile hill.

Just got back in from it now and I'm feeling pleased as I knocked 51 seconds off my PB, did it in 30.45 which is a shade under 7min/miles

[E38Ross]

Locke said:

My main goal at the moment is to get a sub 18:00 at Parkrun and secondly I would also like to improve on the fells in the 5-7 mile range.

if you want sub 18 for 5k you aren't doing enough speed, no where near enough. try doing things like 4x1 mile at quicker than 5k pace off 3 mins recovery; 8x800 at a little bit quicker off 90 secs (or 2mins) recovery; 6x1k of 90secs; 12x400 of 60secs at 3k pace and so on.

to run a good 5k you need some decent speed sessions in you. the long runs at the weekend should be around 11-12 miles or so because of the fell runs you want to do, try doing as much off road as possible. how many times per week are you able to run? for sub 18 you've got to be running at least 4 times, 5 if possible. bare in mind not all of those are hard!

[ewenm]

E38Ross said:

oh mighty ewenm....these the shoes you have?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003ZJRGQE/ref=...

they do various roclite shoes which vary in weight but the 295 (295g) seems pretty light and appears to have decent tread and can be run on trail and tarmac which is what i'm after really. think i'm going to struggle finding a store with those exact shoes in store so may just order a pair and if they don't fit just get a refund.

hmmmm, decisions!

Mighty!

Mine are pretty old and knackered now but those look like the newest versions of them. I'd go for the same size as your spikes as the Inov8s are a similar narrow shape to spikes.

[Locke]

E38Ross said:

if you want sub 18 for 5k you aren't doing enough speed, no where near enough. try doing things like 4x1 mile at quicker than 5k pace off 3 mins recovery; 8x800 at a little bit quicker off 90 secs (or 2mins) recovery; 6x1k of 90secs; 12x400 of 60secs at 3k pace and so on.

to run a good 5k you need some decent speed sessions in you. the long runs at the weekend should be around 11-12 miles or so because of the fell runs you want to do, try doing as much off road as possible. how many times per week are you able to run? for sub 18 you've got to be running at least 4 times, 5 if possible. bare in mind not all of those are hard!

Thanks, I will definitely involve more speed work from now on. I can usually fit in 4 sessions a week + a Parkrun.

[E38Ross]

I'd also suggest not doing a Parkrun every week. Try just every 4-6 weeks after an easier week so you're fresh to really attack it. Instead do another speed session on a tempo run with a few hills in it for instance.

[Locke]

E38Ross said:

I'd also suggest not doing a Parkrun every week. Try just every 4-6 weeks after an easier week so you're fresh to really attack it.

I'll try to stay away but I can't promise . I really enjoy doing them.