Mourinho Gone (To Buy Class 1 Eggs)
Discussion
968, you're not sure star players help ? I know what you're trying to say there but of course they're going to help. Put Ronaldo in Bolton, put Terry at Derby, put Adebayor at Cardiff, it'd help. Granted it won't always pay off but I bet more often than not there would be an improvement in the team.
I'm a life long Chelsea fan so no matter how objective I try to be I am always optimistic about my team, which is why I'm not going to agree with you on much of what you've said. I see where you're coming from but think you're a little off the mark.
That said, I think I must be the only Chelsea fan who thinks JT is a little over-rated and over-hyped. He's good, but not that good.
Sleep Envy, the Gallas/Cole deal was, in my opinion, the worst deal in Chelsea's history, and that includes the Sheva signing. I rate A Cole but not as much as Billy G and can't believe that deal was down to JM.
I'm a life long Chelsea fan so no matter how objective I try to be I am always optimistic about my team, which is why I'm not going to agree with you on much of what you've said. I see where you're coming from but think you're a little off the mark.
That said, I think I must be the only Chelsea fan who thinks JT is a little over-rated and over-hyped. He's good, but not that good.
Sleep Envy, the Gallas/Cole deal was, in my opinion, the worst deal in Chelsea's history, and that includes the Sheva signing. I rate A Cole but not as much as Billy G and can't believe that deal was down to JM.
AM said:
Sleep Envy, the Gallas/Cole deal was, in my opinion, the worst deal in Chelsea's history, and that includes the Sheva signing. I rate A Cole but not as much as Billy G and can't believe that deal was down to JM.
agreed - a player who could play across the back and had pace to stiffle the likes of Henry swapped for Cashley Cole who is only suited to LButter, utter madness
968 said:
Ballack and Sheva did not fit into his system...
You make it sound like some kind of science. Mourinho's system - what's is the system? He found he had inherited a defence that could win him games and with Terry score goals, this became his system?. He found that Lumpard could get a goal deflected in from almost anywhere and scrape a 1 niller. He let Duff, Gudjonsen [sp] and Robben all go, some of the players as an Arsenal fan I thought could win it for Chelsea. Drogba has somehow managed to become an ok player and has saved him some of his specialness.All he tried to do was build a team that was good to watch and win, he failed and lost his job because of it. On the BBC the other night they showed the Chelsea form over the past 3 + bit seasons, after the 2nd prem win it's got steadily worse. Avram has now inherited a not so "special" team built by the special moaner one himself nad starts his record with a loss, nice ones.
All that Mourinho does is promotes himself well and alot of people then believe the crap he comes out with.
Edited by JoolzB on Tuesday 25th September 22:21
JoolzB said:
968 said:
Ballack and Sheva did not fit into his system...
You make it sound like some kind of science. Mourinho's system - what's is the system? He found he had inherited a defence that could win him games and with Terry score goals, this became his system?. He found that Lumpard could get a goal deflected in from almost anywhere and scrape a 1 niller. He let Duff, Gudjonsen [sp] and Robben all go, some of the players as an Arsenal fan I thought could win it for Chelsea. Drogba has somehow managed to become an ok player and has saved him some of his specialness.All he tried to do was build a team that was good to watch and win, he failed and lost his job because of it. On the BBC the other night they showed the Chelsea form over the past 3 + bit seasons, after the 2nd prem win it's got steadily worse. Avram has now inherited a not so "special" team built by the special moaner one himself nad starts his record with a loss, nice ones.
All that Mourinho does is promotes himself well and alot of people then believe the crap he comes out with.
Edited by JoolzB on Tuesday 25th September 22:21
trackdemon said:
JoolzB said:
968 said:
Ballack and Sheva did not fit into his system...
You make it sound like some kind of science. Mourinho's system - what's is the system? He found he had inherited a defence that could win him games and with Terry score goals, this became his system?. He found that Lumpard could get a goal deflected in from almost anywhere and scrape a 1 niller. He let Duff, Gudjonsen [sp] and Robben all go, some of the players as an Arsenal fan I thought could win it for Chelsea. Drogba has somehow managed to become an ok player and has saved him some of his specialness.All he tried to do was build a team that was good to watch and win, he failed and lost his job because of it. On the BBC the other night they showed the Chelsea form over the past 3 + bit seasons, after the 2nd prem win it's got steadily worse. Avram has now inherited a not so "special" team built by the special moaner one himself nad starts his record with a loss, nice ones.
All that Mourinho does is promotes himself well and alot of people then believe the crap he comes out with.
Edited by JoolzB on Tuesday 25th September 22:21
Misinformed??? - I have no insider knowledge I admit.
If it's bollix then explain since I've explained why your informed opinion of the special one is bollix. I'm keen to understand and change my opinion if you can talk me into it, I somehow doubt it from your response.
JoolzB said:
968 said:
Ballack and Sheva did not fit into his system...
You make it sound like some kind of science. Mourinho's system - what's is the system? He found he had inherited a defence that could win him games and with Terry score goals, this became his system?. He found that Lumpard could get a goal deflected in from almost anywhere and scrape a 1 niller. He let Duff, Gudjonsen [sp] and Robben all go, some of the players as an Arsenal fan I thought could win it for Chelsea. Drogba has somehow managed to become an ok player and has saved him some of his specialness.All he tried to do was build a team that was good to watch and win, he failed and lost his job because of it. On the BBC the other night they showed the Chelsea form over the past 3 + bit seasons, after the 2nd prem win it's got steadily worse. Avram has now inherited a not so "special" team built by the special moaner one himself nad starts his record with a loss, nice ones.
All that Mourinho does is promotes himself well and alot of people then believe the crap he comes out with.
Edited by JoolzB on Tuesday 25th September 22:21
sleep envy said:
Calling Drogba an ok player shows the naivety of your post
how can the top scorer be called ok? sure he's no Henry but he can score with his head
Roundly lauded by those who actually know what they're on about as the best striker in the premiership, possibly the world for 2 seasons. Choosing to ignore the huge injury problems of last season & this season also shows a blinkered approach to opinion forming where Chelsea is concerned. But then, what more would you expect of a gooner? how can the top scorer be called ok? sure he's no Henry but he can score with his head
JoolzB said:
968 said:
Ballack and Sheva did not fit into his system...
You make it sound like some kind of science. Mourinho's system - what's is the system? He found he had inherited a defence that could win him games and with Terry score goals, this became his system?. He found that Lumpard could get a goal deflected in from almost anywhere and scrape a 1 niller. He let Duff, Gudjonsen [sp] and Robben all go, some of the players as an Arsenal fan I thought could win it for Chelsea. Drogba has somehow managed to become an ok player and has saved him some of his specialness.All he tried to do was build a team that was good to watch and win, he failed and lost his job because of it. On the BBC the other night they showed the Chelsea form over the past 3 + bit seasons, after the 2nd prem win it's got steadily worse. Avram has now inherited a not so "special" team built by the special moaner one himself nad starts his record with a loss, nice ones.
All that Mourinho does is promotes himself well and alot of people then believe the crap he comes out with.
Ipswich fan opinion.
Grant has inherrited a very good squad, if JM was under pressure to play attractive football, and include MB and AS, then I feel sorry for him. I suspect many things were out of his control, but who knows. He's a very motivational manager, and certainly knows his stuff. He's learnt from some of the best managers (Robson/Gaal), and proven that he can get results. He brought in his own techniques to training sessions, and has been an innovator, not affraid to challenge the conventional.
I think his record speaks for itself, and i'm sure you don't need anyone to tell you what he's actually achieved.
IMO Grant will do okay, but with interferrance from higher up, the job is a waste of time.
thewave said:
I think you're off the mark here.
Ipswich fan opinion.
Grant has inherrited a very good squad, if JM was under pressure to play attractive football, and include MB and AS, then I feel sorry for him. I suspect many things were out of his control, but who knows. He's a very motivational manager, and certainly knows his stuff. He's learnt from some of the best managers (Robson/Gaal), and proven that he can get results. He brought in his own techniques to training sessions, and has been an innovator, not affraid to challenge the conventional.
I think his record speaks for itself, and i'm sure you don't need anyone to tell you what he's actually achieved.
IMO Grant will do okay, but with interferrance from higher up, the job is a waste of time.
Don't get me wrong the squad is defo top 4 material and no I can't disagree with the achievements but I don't think they deserved the first Prem title and Porto definitely didn't deserve the Champions. I seem to hear "this isn't a typical Chelsea performance" from pundits for a hell of alot of Chelsea games which makes you wonder how many times would make it typical.Ipswich fan opinion.
Grant has inherrited a very good squad, if JM was under pressure to play attractive football, and include MB and AS, then I feel sorry for him. I suspect many things were out of his control, but who knows. He's a very motivational manager, and certainly knows his stuff. He's learnt from some of the best managers (Robson/Gaal), and proven that he can get results. He brought in his own techniques to training sessions, and has been an innovator, not affraid to challenge the conventional.
I think his record speaks for itself, and i'm sure you don't need anyone to tell you what he's actually achieved.
IMO Grant will do okay, but with interferrance from higher up, the job is a waste of time.
Grant said on the radio that he and Chelsea wanted to create a team that played attractive football which kindda confirmed what what I thought for years, you could argue that's Abram influence but I think JM and the fans would want that too. Getting a team with such a good defence I believe was just the way it happened(not part of what JM had planned), Terry's goal scoring in the first 2 seasons even won them games that they were woeful in. All I'm saying is that there's too much influence put on managers performance when it comes down to the team itself.
trackdemon said:
sleep envy said:
Calling Drogba an ok player shows the naivety of your post
how can the top scorer be called ok? sure he's no Henry but he can score with his head
Roundly lauded by those who actually know what they're on about as the best striker in the premiership, possibly the world for 2 seasons. Choosing to ignore the huge injury problems of last season & this season also shows a blinkered approach to opinion forming where Chelsea is concerned. But then, what more would you expect of a gooner? how can the top scorer be called ok? sure he's no Henry but he can score with his head
JoolzB said:
Don't get me wrong the squad is defo top 4 material and no I can't disagree with the achievements but I don't think they deserved the first Prem title and Porto definitely didn't deserve the Champions. I seem to hear "this isn't a typical Chelsea performance" from pundits for a hell of alot of Chelsea games which makes you wonder how many times would make it typical.
Grant said on the radio that he and Chelsea wanted to create a team that played attractive football which kindda confirmed what what I thought for years, you could argue that's Abram influence but I think JM and the fans would want that too. Getting a team with such a good defence I believe was just the way it happened(not part of what JM had planned), Terry's goal scoring in the first 2 seasons even won them games that they were woeful in. All I'm saying is that there's too much influence put on managers performance when it comes down to the team itself.
What utter bollox.Grant said on the radio that he and Chelsea wanted to create a team that played attractive football which kindda confirmed what what I thought for years, you could argue that's Abram influence but I think JM and the fans would want that too. Getting a team with such a good defence I believe was just the way it happened(not part of what JM had planned), Terry's goal scoring in the first 2 seasons even won them games that they were woeful in. All I'm saying is that there's too much influence put on managers performance when it comes down to the team itself.
"They didn't deserve the first premiership title" Well tough shit, they won it, by a huge margin, which suggests that they did deserve the title, quite amply, as Man U and Arsenal were clearly not up to the mark.
Also Porto clearly did 'deserve' the Champions league, as they won it. I think you need to get real.
It's always interesting to hear someone with no knowledge harp on about 'typical' Chelsea performances, of 1-0, of course, the first league title was nothing of the sort, with a large number of goals scored, and many 3-0 and higher score lines.
Thereafter, things started to go southwards. Ever since they sold Gallas, (which was not Mourinho's choice) and Duff (also not Mourinho's choice) things changed, as they did not carry the same threat, playing 2 wingers and a striker, as they did in their first season. Drogba has turned out to be an awesome player, and it's pretty typical bollock talk from and Arsenhole supporter to talk about how average he is, particularly when one considers how shite Adebayor was, initially, but now has come good.
And for a flukey, fat lump, Lampard seems to score an tremendous number of goals, funny that, clearly must be luck, despite the fact that he's been the top scoring midfielder in the premiership for the past 3 years. Hmmm.....
And yes, a manager does have a system, and have tactics. You might not appreciate that, given that Wenger seems to have one game plan, and no plan B, but it is the case that tactics are rather important, and Mourinho has to be one of the finest tacticians in the game.
968 said:
What utter bollox.
Calm down it's only footie.968 said:
"They didn't deserve the first premiership title" Well tough shit, they won it, by a huge margin, which suggests that they did deserve the title, quite amply, as Man U and Arsenal were clearly not up to the mark.
The first third+ part of the season they were appaling, I'm sorry if it offends but it's true. Lucky goals and narrow wins.968 said:
Also Porto clearly did 'deserve' the Champions league, as they won it. I think you need to get real.
No you need to get real. Ever heard of "May the best team win", well it doesn't alwyas happen like in alot of knockout comps including WC and Europe.968 said:
It's always interesting to hear someone with no knowledge harp on about 'typical' Chelsea performances, of 1-0, of course, the first league title was nothing of the sort, with a large number of goals scored, and many 3-0 and higher score lines.
This is Sky Sports etc, I've seen enough boring Chelsea games to know.968 said:
Thereafter, things started to go southwards. Ever since they sold Gallas, (which was not Mourinho's choice) and Duff (also not Mourinho's choice) things changed, as they did not carry the same threat, playing 2 wingers and a striker, as they did in their first season. Drogba has turned out to be an awesome player, and it's pretty typical bollock talk from and Arsenhole supporter to talk about how average he is, particularly when one considers how shite Adebayor was, initially, but now has come good.
Gallas wanted to leave. Drogba is a threat from headers and uses his weight well, he can't control the ball and is not at all great, obv imo as you disagree.968 said:
And for a flukey, fat lump, Lampard seems to score an tremendous number of goals, funny that, clearly must be luck, despite the fact that he's been the top scoring midfielder in the premiership for the past 3 years. Hmmm.....
It's almost become a joke his deflections, he takes the pens too don't forget.968 said:
And yes, a manager does have a system, and have tactics. You might not appreciate that, given that Wenger seems to have one game plan, and no plan B, but it is the case that tactics are rather important, and Mourinho has to be one of the finest tacticians in the game.
As far as I can see it Wenger's game plan is to identify the weaknesses and correct them, the defence for instance at the moment, it's not rocket science. His secret is in his talent scouts.Like I say srry it offends, I'm just interested to see it from a Chelsea fan pov.
JoolzB said:
Like I say srry it offends, I'm just interested to see it from a Chelsea fan pov.
It's just the usual stuff that Arsenal 'fans' spout, I'm afraid. Wenger has one tactic, which at the moment, is working, as they haven't played a team with any ability, as yet. Sadly, as soon as they meet a team with a well organised defence, it'll be the usual 'after you sir' stuff, where no one shoots.Yeah, you're entitled to your opinion, but sadly the realities of the last few seasons have proved you wrong. Drogba was by far the best striker in the premiership last season, and you know it, but are too myopic to admit it. Being gracious about an opposition team, isn't a quality one associates with Arsenal, but actually as much as Drogba is the best striker, Fabregas is by far the best midfielder in the world.
As for Frank Lampard, he's gone off the boil over the last 12 months, but his value to the team is made all the more clear, in the recent run of poor results, particularly in front of goal, have coincided exactly with his and Drogba's absence.
968 said:
It's just the usual stuff that Arsenal 'fans' spout, I'm afraid. Wenger has one tactic, which at the moment, is working, as they haven't played a team with any ability, as yet. Sadly, as soon as they meet a team with a well organised defence, it'll be the usual 'after you sir' stuff, where no one shoots.
Yeah, you're entitled to your opinion, but sadly the realities of the last few seasons have proved you wrong. Drogba was by far the best striker in the premiership last season, and you know it, but are too myopic to admit it. Being gracious about an opposition team, isn't a quality one associates with Arsenal, but actually as much as Drogba is the best striker, Fabregas is by far the best midfielder in the world.
As for Frank Lampard, he's gone off the boil over the last 12 months, but his value to the team is made all the more clear, in the recent run of poor results, particularly in front of goal, have coincided exactly with his and Drogba's absence.
It has nothing at all with me being an Arsenal "fan"!!!!, fwiw I though Man U were gonna romp this season. I thought this was a "informed/knowledeable" conversation and not a personal attack.Yeah, you're entitled to your opinion, but sadly the realities of the last few seasons have proved you wrong. Drogba was by far the best striker in the premiership last season, and you know it, but are too myopic to admit it. Being gracious about an opposition team, isn't a quality one associates with Arsenal, but actually as much as Drogba is the best striker, Fabregas is by far the best midfielder in the world.
As for Frank Lampard, he's gone off the boil over the last 12 months, but his value to the team is made all the more clear, in the recent run of poor results, particularly in front of goal, have coincided exactly with his and Drogba's absence.
We will have to disagree about Drogba obviously, don't get me wrong he scored alot of goals last season but he's really not what you and those others on the bandwagon are making out, I wait to be proved wrong, we'll leave it there along with his lack of skill. I was an Ian Wright fan but would admit his weakness as with Henry, you on the other hand will not even acknoledge that Drogba can't control the ball.
Frank is a battler and a great team player, he's good but does get alot of deflections it has to be said, in fact it probly won them the first season, you disagree but then again you(and other Chelsea "fans"
seem to be more blinkered than I am!Start talking footie rather than blaming my views on bias and we could(probly not) have a half sensible chat.
Edited by JoolzB on Thursday 27th September 00:15
JoolzB said:
968 said:
What utter bollox.
Calm down it's only footie.
JoolzB said:
968 said:
"They didn't deserve the first premiership title" Well tough shit, they won it, by a huge margin, which suggests that they did deserve the title, quite amply, as Man U and Arsenal were clearly not up to the mark.
The first third+ part of the season they were appaling, I'm sorry if it offends but it's true. Lucky goals and narrow wins.JoolzB said:
968 said:
Also Porto clearly did 'deserve' the Champions league, as they won it. I think you need to get real.
No you need to get real. Ever heard of "May the best team win", well it doesn't alwyas happen like in alot of knockout comps including WC and Europe.968 said:
It's always interesting to hear someone with no knowledge harp on about 'typical' Chelsea performances, of 1-0, of course, the first league title was nothing of the sort, with a large number of goals scored, and many 3-0 and higher score lines.
JoolzB said:
This is Sky Sports etc, I've seen enough boring Chelsea games to know.
bo
ocks. Quantify, realistically, or accept this is wrong. As an aside though, if Chelsea are sooooo boring, and you are not a fan - then why are you watching?JoolzB said:
968 said:
Thereafter, things started to go southwards. Ever since they sold Gallas, (which was not Mourinho's choice) and Duff (also not Mourinho's choice) things changed, as they did not carry the same threat, playing 2 wingers and a striker, as they did in their first season. Drogba has turned out to be an awesome player, and it's pretty typical bollock talk from and Arsenhole supporter to talk about how average he is, particularly when one considers how shite Adebayor was, initially, but now has come good.
Gallas wanted to leave. Drogba is a threat from headers and uses his weight well, he can't control the ball and is not at all great, obv imo as you disagree.968 said:
And for a flukey, fat lump, Lampard seems to score an tremendous number of goals, funny that, clearly must be luck, despite the fact that he's been the top scoring midfielder in the premiership for the past 3 years. Hmmm.....
It's almost become a joke his deflections, he takes the pens too don't forget.The comments about Drogba a barely worth acknowledgement they are so far removed from the belief of the football community. Drogba's first touch may occasionally let him down, but two points to remember:
As a striker he is there to put the ball in the back of the net. This he does with aplomb, often making goals out of nothing with (ironically?) magnificent first touches that drop the ball into a shooting opportunity which he has the ability to finish. Liverpool last season was a great example: amazing goal out of nothing.
Secondly, a large part of the reason he is so well respected as a striker is what he brings to the team as a whole; he defends, he holds the ball up, he passes, he wins lost causes, his desire to win a game and the obvious influence he has on the rest of the team are large parts of what make him so good. A true team player if there can be such a thing as a striker.
re: Lampard, now you are truly delusional. So Lamps CONSISTANT top goal scoring performance from midfield is just down to luck? Perhaps some of your Arsenal chums could take a leaf from his book - the game is about end result, and much as playing 59 passes before conceding posession may look pretty, playing 7 passes then back of the net from 27 yards gets the job done. This is what Lamps has been doing for a while now. The loss of both Lamps & Dider in the striking department have been overt in their influence to Chelsea of late.
JoolzB said:
968 said:
And yes, a manager does have a system, and have tactics. You might not appreciate that, given that Wenger seems to have one game plan, and no plan B, but it is the case that tactics are rather important, and Mourinho has to be one of the finest tacticians in the game.
As far as I can see it Wenger's game plan is to identify the weaknesses and correct them, the defence for instance at the moment, it's not rocket science. His secret is in his talent scouts.Like I say srry it offends, I'm just interested to see it from a Chelsea fan pov.
Sorry I can't quote all that. It's not provocative it's my opinion, funny enough the "experts" usually catch up after some time, only Sunday BBC bloke said alot of the Chelsea players/Mourinhno signings were average players.
Liverpool didn't deserve the CL no, I have Liverpool fan friends who admit it too. Entertaining match tho
Please please don't go back to George Graham, we're talking now and Moaner and you're getting boring.
I watch Chelsea as they're the only British team I'd like to see lose in Europe, that's down to Moaner, I might change now he's gone
As I replied earlier Frank's a good battler and a good player but is a deflection specialist.
So you spend mils on players and blame Ranieri signings for losses, nice!
That WH game and substitutions, amazing management wow.
Liverpool didn't deserve the CL no, I have Liverpool fan friends who admit it too. Entertaining match tho
Please please don't go back to George Graham, we're talking now and Moaner and you're getting boring.
I watch Chelsea as they're the only British team I'd like to see lose in Europe, that's down to Moaner, I might change now he's gone
As I replied earlier Frank's a good battler and a good player but is a deflection specialist.
So you spend mils on players and blame Ranieri signings for losses, nice!
That WH game and substitutions, amazing management wow.
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