The MMA thread

[davey68]

Anyone know if TUF season 16 (starts friday) is going to be shown over here? I saw some of last years TUF series and quite enjoyed it. I think its on FX in the states but it's not mentioned on the FXUK listings? anyone any info?

[Don1]

If it is, it will be ESPN (I think), and from what I've seen, there is a Australia Vs UK show?

[Stu R]

Don1 said:

If it is, it will be ESPN (I think), and from what I've seen, there is a Australia Vs UK show?

Yep, Ross Pearson is the UK coach.

[Halb]

I missed TUF when it was taken away from whatever channel it was on. Then I forgot all about it.
Don't even know what the last TUF I bothered to watch was now.

[Stu R]

Same here. I recently went through a couple of the more recent seasons, can't say I enjoyed them as much as the earlier seasons, doubt I'll bother watching anything other than the final episode - usually gives you the highlights worth watching anyway

[Gogoplata]

TUF Carwin vs Nelson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB-eWtWRMpk&fea...

[Don1]

Wow. That doesn't play up to too many stereotypes.

[robmlufc]

Silva vs Bonner ... crazy ass fight that! Have they really run out of fighters? Cool for Bonner though, UFC legend.

[Perra]

robmlufc said:

Silva vs Bonner ... crazy ass fight that! Have they really run out of fighters? Cool for Bonner though, UFC legend.

Yep, should be an interesting one. Bonnar has never been stopped, he's only ever lost on decisions. So it would be interesting to see how he manages against Silva. Is this for a title shot?

[davey68]

I still can't find any details of TUF 16 team carwin v team nelson. If anyone see's what channel it's on please post, i'd really appreciate it. Hope we can get to see the UK vs OZ TUF too that would be fun. I'm surprised Anderson is going up 20lbs to fight Bonner, will be a very interesting fight!

[davey68]

Update! Through pure luck I was looking on the tv guide. On ESPN from monday night (midnight start) TUF 16 is on. Also, on wednesday TUF UK vs OZ is on too, again around 12am on ESPN. Can't wait!

[robmlufc]

Perra said:

Yep, should be an interesting one. Bonnar has never been stopped, he's only ever lost on decisions. So it would be interesting to see how he manages against Silva. Is this for a title shot?

AFAIK its not a title fight, 3 rounder at 205. Lets hope he does better than Forrest eh!

[Ayahuasca]

Hail mighty warriors!

I know nothing about MMA, but from what I have seen the fights are mostly punches, knee kicks and wrestling holds. As it is 'mixed martial arts' why is there not more kung-fu style fighting, or are punches and knee kicks more effective?

[Halb]

There are a lot of kicks to thigh level or below.
Not so easy to kick a moving target that has the ability to grab your leg and smack you for being so open.
Kicks go up in ratio with the smaller lighter fighters.

[Don1]

Depends - are we talking pro fights or amateur?

Pro fights tend to be won by submission (triangle, guillotine and Darce coke are the current favourites), or points. To win on a TKO now tends to be either ground and pound (ref stoppage), or something unusual - such as the Anderson Silva teep/toe kick. Please note that the heavyweights will just punch holes in each other currently though.

Amateur tend to be basics, such as hand speed, better grappling, superior striking ability or the skill to take a fight where you can totally dominate - such as the Ronda Rousey arm bar (not that she is an amateur, but it serves the point well).

All IMHO, and I will get shot down quickly....

[davey68]

I think at UFC level at least it's all about risk/reward. Throwing head kicks and the like 'can' work, I've seen several knock out's using them, but usually the leg get's grabbed and a hard punch come's back your way. Either that or the defender sweeps your standing leg and you are into the ground game, which some fighters prefer to avoid. Watch a few fighters like Lyoto Machida or Dennis Siver, they use alot of kicks due to their karate/kickboxing background. That's what I've learned from watching UFC for a few years anyway. One other thing, Muay Thai seems a very popular style trained for MMA. Key to Muay Thai is breaking down your opponents leg's with heavy kicks to the thigh. Another reason you see alot of that from MT fighters.

[Stu R]

Ayahuasca said:

Hail mighty warriors!

I know nothing about MMA, but from what I have seen the fights are mostly punches, knee kicks and wrestling holds. As it is 'mixed martial arts' why is there not more kung-fu style fighting, or are punches and knee kicks more effective?

MMA is quite evolutionary, it adopts what works and rejects what doesn't very quickly.

The stylish looking swooshy hollywood stuff falls apart and concludes up with a wannabe jet li getting taken to the ground and smeared all over the canvas until he gives up - it offers nothing in the way of takedown or submission defence, and there's a ton of very effective alternatives for the striking aspects, and there's always the worry of counter striking when you leave your leg stuck out there. The bits that are useful are hard to differentiate from a lot of other combat / striking arts but there is some scope for them.

That being said, Kung Fu's a pretty broad term with hundreds if not thousands of styles. For the large part the Wu Shu type stuff is useless in professional MMA - takes lots of time to learn, vast swathes of it aren't applicable (weapons training, small joint manipulation, gouges etc), and most of the stuff that is doesn't offer anything remarkable for striking. Basically, it goes back to being ineffective compared to other stuff.

There are some influences from kung fu type disciplines that do get used in some form or other, but most of it is quite far removed from the original form by the time it's evolved to be useful from what I've seen. For instance there's a couple of fighters off the top of my head that use Sunshou - but it's more akin to Muay Thai by the time they've figured out how to use it effectively in MMA - which makes sense when you see how effective a muay thai fighter can be, particularly if he's got a solid ground game too.

[davey68]

I agree with everything Stu just said. The flashy Jet Li stuff just wouldn't be effective. MT is a ring proven fighting art centuries old. It certainly seem's to be the most effective striking style in MMA, along with western style boxing which many fighters also train. A number of top UFC guy's train under pro boxing coaches (such as Freddy Roach) to sharpen their skills. So Muay Thai, boxing, jiu jitsu and wrestling are to me the four area's you need to compete well in MMA. Obviously fighters with karate/TKD/kickboxing backgrounds will use some elements of those styles but IMHO it's the four area's mentioned that make up current MMA fighters.

[Don1]

With MMA/MT, look how many fighters are changing their style to the traditional Karate-esque kick, from the MT step-kick technique.

Less reading of the strike... Therefore less catch/counter.

[Gogoplata]

Ayahuasca said:

Hail mighty warriors!

I know nothing about MMA, but from what I have seen the fights are mostly punches, knee kicks and wrestling holds. As it is 'mixed martial arts' why is there not more kung-fu style fighting, or are punches and knee kicks more effective?

If you watch UFC 1 - 15 (or so) you can pretty much see the evaluation of MMA from NHB through the "Style vs Style' fights which were just a little bit behind the more well rounded fights that were happening in Japan & Brazil during the same time period.

The NHB tournaments of the 90's saw countless Traditional Martial Arts "Masters" (Karate, Kung Fu etc) succumb to opponents who were from a sport fighting background i.e. BJJ, Wrestling, Boxing/Kick Boxing/Thai.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5DVOH-LRQs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqD8Odaebw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQXlg7DksvY


I remember going to a Vale Tudo club when I was Karate Brown belt and finding out that I couldn't fight for st. All those years of training Karate and I got owned by somebody who had been grappling for a few months.