Want to start Karate after 19 year abscence, recommendations
Discussion
shouldbworking said:
Keep it up 
What sort of things did you have to cover at your 3rd kyu grading?
Our syllabus is as follows:What sort of things did you have to cover at your 3rd kyu grading?
KIHON
1) Jodan Oi Zuki, Forwards and Back
2) Chudan Oi Zuki, Forward and Back
3) Sanbon Zuki, Forward and Backwards
4) Nidan Zuki, Forwards and Backwards
5) Age Uke, Gyaku zuki, Gedan Barai, Forwards and Backwards
6) Soto Uke, Empi, Uraken, Gyaku zuki, Gedan Barai, Forwards and Backwards
7) Uchi Uke, Kizami zuki, Gyaku zuki, Gedan Barai, Forwards and Backwards
8) Shuto Uke, Mae Ashi Geri Chudan, Nukite, Forwards and Backwards
9) Mae Geri Chudan, Forwards and Back
10) Mae Geri Jodan, Forwards and Back
11) Nidan Geri, Mae geri Chudan, Mae Geri Jodan, Forwards, turn, Mae Geri Jodan, Mae Geri Chudan Back
12) Yoko Geri Keage Chudan, Kiba dachi, Forwards and Backwards
13) Yoko Geri Kekomi Chudan, Kiba dachi, Forwards and Backwards
14) Mawashi geri, Chudan, Forwards and Back
15) Mawashi geri, Jodan, Forwards and Back
16) Ushiro Geri Chudan, Gyaku zuki Chudan, Forwards and Back
From front stance (zenkusu dachi) Forwards, turn and back.
KUMITE
Kihon Ippon Kumite (1 step sparring) Jodan Oi Zuki, Chudan Oi zuki, Mae Geri Chudan, Kekomi Chudan, Mawashi Geri Jodan (hidari & migi)
KATA
Tekki Shodan
From recollection, I did pretty much all of the above (or variations thereof) and a few other combinations. We were also asked to do Kihon kata and Heian Sandan.
Sidicks
Edited by sidicks on Monday 25th July 21:41
Kwai Chang Caine said:
Are your classes taught in Japanese?
I'm having a running battle with my Kung Fu Instructors to cut down on the Chinese in our classes.
Teaching technique names is fine by me.
Anything else is too much.
We are taught the Japanese names for the techiniques and obviously all the counting, 'start', 'stop', 'bow' etc is also all in Japanese, but Sensei explains the techniques in English, particularly for the junior grades.I'm having a running battle with my Kung Fu Instructors to cut down on the Chinese in our classes.
Teaching technique names is fine by me.
Anything else is too much.
How does the syllabus compare to what you would have expected?
Sidicks
sidicks said:
We are taught the Japanese names for the techiniques and obviously all the counting, 'start', 'stop', 'bow' etc is also all in Japanese, but Sensei explains the techniques in English, particularly for the junior grades.
How does the syllabus compare to what you would have expected?
Sidicks
How do you demonstrate those techniques for assessment? Do you out them into combinations, hit something or are they walking drills?How does the syllabus compare to what you would have expected?
Sidicks
Knowing very little about TradK Kata, how are they taught/assessed?
Your Kumite; how is this done? Safety gear? No head shots? Full contact?
It's always interesting to hear everyone's experiences. Thanks for taking the time to answer.
Kwai Chang Caine said:
How do you demonstrate those techniques for assessment? Do you out them into combinations, hit something or are they walking drills?
Sensei states the combination required (and how many times) and you demonstrate the techniques!Kwai Chang Caine said:
Knowing very little about TradK Kata, how are they taught/assessed?
You have to demonstrate the appropriate moves from start to finish with kiai in the correct places and demonstrating good technique etc Kwai Chang Caine said:
Your Kumite; how is this done? Safety gear? No head shots? Full contact?
At this stage we are doing kihon Ippon kumite I.e. Basic one-step kumite - the attacker announces the attack (jodan, chudan, mai geri etc) and the defender has to block and counter. The counter is intended to be "soft contact" to the body and you would stop (just) short of contact to the head.If the opponent did not block successfully then they would get hit, possibly painfully, however while you are trying to deliver a solid technique, you are NOT trying to knock your opponent out!!
It's at the next stage 2nd Kyu and above where it is freestyle kumite although even there the focus is on control (no pads are worn).
I'm afraid I have nothing to compare this to, as it is the only martial arts training I've done
Kwai Chang Caine said:
It's always interesting to hear everyone's experiences. Thanks for taking the time to answer.
My pleasure!Sidicks
Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 26th July 22:59
I like the way you do your sparring. It's a good way to build up the difficulty!
It's funny how critical people can be of traditional martial arts (myself included when appropriate) but that seems like a good system you're training there. My only concern is the lack of impact power. What does your instructor say about this?
One question though; how do you guys train for movement? My only intimate knowledge is of Wado-Ryu; how do you Shotokan guys approach this?
It's funny how critical people can be of traditional martial arts (myself included when appropriate) but that seems like a good system you're training there. My only concern is the lack of impact power. What does your instructor say about this?
One question though; how do you guys train for movement? My only intimate knowledge is of Wado-Ryu; how do you Shotokan guys approach this?
Kwai Chang Caine said:
I like the way you do your sparring. It's a good way to build up the difficulty!
It's funny how critical people can be of traditional martial arts (myself included when appropriate) but that seems like a good system you're training there. My only concern is the lack of impact power. What does your instructor say about this?
One question though; how do you guys train for movement? My only intimate knowledge is of Wado-Ryu; how do you Shotokan guys approach this?
I can only speak for my club, but we do a mixture of things - the warm up typically includes boxing style footwork drills, the basics we do (although line basics only really forms part of our grading, we dont spend all that much time hitting thin air otherwise) try to include a natural flow of using the movement from the previous move to flow smoothly into the next for example from my 3rd kyu grading there was one combination.. ill put it in down verbosely just for the sake of trying to explain it.. and call stuff blocks even though I dont subscribe to that theory It's funny how critical people can be of traditional martial arts (myself included when appropriate) but that seems like a good system you're training there. My only concern is the lack of impact power. What does your instructor say about this?
One question though; how do you guys train for movement? My only intimate knowledge is of Wado-Ryu; how do you Shotokan guys approach this?
From a left foot forward front stance.. step forward front stance, inside outside block, front foot across to form horse stance, side elbow strike, back foot comes up level with the front foot with you now facing 180 to the initial direction of travel, rear elbow strike, back kick, turning to land back in a left front stance.
Hard to visualise from that but effectively you perform a full circle to your left, the goal being to try and carry that movement where appropriate and keep it smooth.
Another aspect of movement drills is striking a pad with the person on the move - typically just backing away slowly but with anything more complicated its all too liable for someone to get it wrong and hit the person not the pad.
I suppose the last but not least is sparring itself - always quality practice for movement, its not so much formally taught but you rapidly learn the movement skills for avoiding an attack / moving forward to exploit a weakness and the like.
SBW,
Do you spar like Sidicks? Do you pad up?
That form you mentioned, is it performed with no resistance or do you work with a partner with focus mitts?
Your instructor seems quite forward thinking and flexible in that I've rarely seen a Karateka teach students movement with boxing drills (which are head and shoulders above anything Trad Martial arts has to offer on the subject imho).
Does this extend any further? (I know this might be hard to answer if you've only trained with him).
It would be nice to see a revival of Karate amongst adults in the UK. It has had a tough 20 years! Innovative instructors are the only way that's gonna happen.
Do you spar like Sidicks? Do you pad up?
That form you mentioned, is it performed with no resistance or do you work with a partner with focus mitts?
Your instructor seems quite forward thinking and flexible in that I've rarely seen a Karateka teach students movement with boxing drills (which are head and shoulders above anything Trad Martial arts has to offer on the subject imho).
Does this extend any further? (I know this might be hard to answer if you've only trained with him).
It would be nice to see a revival of Karate amongst adults in the UK. It has had a tough 20 years! Innovative instructors are the only way that's gonna happen.
This is something I have a real interest in - I trained in Shotokan to Nidan level a long time ago, and left because of beer/uni/women. Very traditional instruction.
Much later, I changed tack, and began training in sport karate/kickboxing. Young instructor, very different emphasis. Music, modern stretching, boxing drills, pad work, etc
Some points -
1. Everyone was having much more fun in the second format
2. My fitness was much much higher in the second format
3. the average age was much younger in the second format
Now, I'm thinking about returning to Shotokan, but no-one I have found has been able to combine the two formats- a traditional art, taught in a modern and enjoyable way
I'm not even sure if its possible...
Much later, I changed tack, and began training in sport karate/kickboxing. Young instructor, very different emphasis. Music, modern stretching, boxing drills, pad work, etc
Some points -
1. Everyone was having much more fun in the second format
2. My fitness was much much higher in the second format
3. the average age was much younger in the second format
Now, I'm thinking about returning to Shotokan, but no-one I have found has been able to combine the two formats- a traditional art, taught in a modern and enjoyable way
I'm not even sure if its possible...
Jumpy Guy said:
This is something I have a real interest in - I trained in Shotokan to Nidan level a long time ago, and left because of beer/uni/women. Very traditional instruction.
Much later, I changed tack, and began training in sport karate/kickboxing. Young instructor, very different emphasis. Music, modern stretching, boxing drills, pad work, etc
Some points -
1. Everyone was having much more fun in the second format
2. My fitness was much much higher in the second format
3. the average age was much younger in the second format
Now, I'm thinking about returning to Shotokan, but no-one I have found has been able to combine the two formats- a traditional art, taught in a modern and enjoyable way
I'm not even sure if its possible...
I guess it depends on what blend you are looking for.Much later, I changed tack, and began training in sport karate/kickboxing. Young instructor, very different emphasis. Music, modern stretching, boxing drills, pad work, etc
Some points -
1. Everyone was having much more fun in the second format
2. My fitness was much much higher in the second format
3. the average age was much younger in the second format
Now, I'm thinking about returning to Shotokan, but no-one I have found has been able to combine the two formats- a traditional art, taught in a modern and enjoyable way
I'm not even sure if its possible...
We teach a traditional kung fu style. Unfortunately, due to the style's nature, it was attracting only a small segment of the population.
I decided not so long ago to re-jig the syllabus to create another stand alone syllabus (one might even call it a new style, but I don't like to say that myself) to attract younger folks who don't want to learn 60 move forms or defences against a mounted rider etc
Basically, I removed all the stuff I thought was totally unapplicable to the modern world and metaphorically threw the remaining syllabus up in the air and reformed the components.
The thing is, despite falling out of fashion, traditional martial arts, when well taught, are as good a fighting style as anything else. Only so many ways to punch, kick, lock, throw etc.
By introducing some training methods of modern martial arts and simple things like moving knife defences fom black sash training to beginner training, it has been a success. Why leave the cool weapons only to those who have trained for x number of years? Crazy, if you ask me.
The problem is the psyche of trad instructors. Some get so caught up in their lineage and copying exactly what and how they were taught that they forget that their styles came about through innovation in the first place. We all know what happens to a copy of a copy of a copy!
So it certainly is possible. The will and ability to execute it is often the problem.
Jumpy Guy said:
So, how traditional is your 'updated' style?
Chinese names used? taught in a suit or t shirt? Music? modern stretching?
Genuinely interested!
No Chinese. The trad version is still taught in Chinese (i.e every command) followed by English translation. We still use the flowery Chinese translations though. Chinese names used? taught in a suit or t shirt? Music? modern stretching?
Genuinely interested!
Our Association hasn't used Mandarins for anyone other than Black Sashes for 30 odd years (the suits are a barrier to entry due to their cost in our opinion) so we continue with that. Black kung fu pants, slippers if the students wants to buy them and a branded t-shirt.
Stretching and tempo are areas of wholesale change. We use modern stretching and warm up combined with high tempo classes. We wanted our students to be as fit as the kickboxers as it was becoming embarrassing when the styles had a spar as to the lack of cardio developed by the trad training.
Most of the students want to get fit/lose weight at the same time as learn martial arts you see.
Movement is a big issue to me so we try to teach quick feet without losing the kung-fu-ines.
We use the same Chinese music for both trad and modern interpretations; played very gently mind.
It's a delicate balancing act. Most young people who come along to joing kung fu want to, essentially, be able to do some stuff like Bruce Lee. They don't want to learn huge, long forms that seemingly have no use whatsoever. If you force them down this route, they leave. Simple as that.
We teach Kickboxing, Kung Fu (2 versions) and K Maga plus Karate to the Kids. What's vital is ensuring that the styles don't all merge into one hybrid fighting style. Each style has its own flavour and DNA that has to be adhered to imho.
Happy to answer anything else you want to know
Kwai Chang Caine said:
SBW,
Do you spar like Sidicks? Do you pad up?
We perform a mix of sparring drills, point stop (yuk) and freestyle sparring. drills typically involve padding in the form of 12oz or so gloves, gum shields and foot / shin guards, boxes if you feel like it. Freestyle takes the same form of padding, point stop and some drills for things which require a greater focus on speed e.g. back fist striking / open hand techniques we use lighter gloves.Do you spar like Sidicks? Do you pad up?
Contact levels vary, point stop is just enough so that the opponent knows youve made contact, freestyle and drills down to the discretion of what you are comfortable with and who you are working with - lower grades its pretty gentle, if you are feeling up for it with someone who is comfortable you might allow powerful body shots and the like. Stuff which would cause injury is a bit of a no no - powerful kicks to the groin, eye gouges, elbows, knees etc are either not done or pulled short.
Kwai Chang Caine said:
That form you mentioned, is it performed with no resistance or do you work with a partner with focus mitts?
No resistance. We might practise it with mitts in training but on the grading it will be performed without.Kwai Chang Caine said:
Your instructor seems quite forward thinking and flexible in that I've rarely seen a Karateka teach students movement with boxing drills (which are head and shoulders above anything Trad Martial arts has to offer on the subject imho).
Does this extend any further? (I know this might be hard to answer if you've only trained with him).
Actually hes quite conservative in many regards and downright backwards in other areas - you still get everything described as a block, without other applications being considered until higher grades, bunkai is fairly limited / impractical and you will hear tekki shodan described as for fighting with your back to a wall. Does this extend any further? (I know this might be hard to answer if you've only trained with him).
It takes a lot to convince him of the virtue of a training method for example pad work used to be maybe once a month until he saw how the striking of a group who regularly trained with pads improved. Also, a lot of stuff isnt actually explained. The boxing drills for example - the method wasnt really explained and it was only because I'd recognised the movement from some drills I'd seen that I knew what it was about. For people who are there just for fitness rather than the martial aspects this can be a bit confusing.
This sounds like im slating him but he is a good instructor with a lot to teach, its just easy to want for more!
Kwai Chang Caine said:
SBW,
Do you spar like Sidicks? Do you pad up?
Do clarify, I was refering to the approach for grading.Do you spar like Sidicks? Do you pad up?
During ordinary lessons we ocassionally do 'touch' kumite and also 'proper' Kumite where some people do wear pads. Generally there is minimal face contact, although I did require a trip to casualty soon after I started Karate for some stitches in a cut lip.....
Sidicks
I'm pleased to be able to update the thread to confirm I'm now 2nd Kyu (Brown / White belt).
Next grading is March or September, and although it is just a new Kata to learn (rather than any new techniques) realistically I need to improve the strength of my techniques, so 1st Kyu in September is a more realistic goal and then maybe 6 months to the 1st Dan black belt grading thereafter.
Sidicks
Next grading is March or September, and although it is just a new Kata to learn (rather than any new techniques) realistically I need to improve the strength of my techniques, so 1st Kyu in September is a more realistic goal and then maybe 6 months to the 1st Dan black belt grading thereafter.
Sidicks
sidicks said:
I'm pleased to be able to update the thread to confirm I'm now 2nd Kyu (Brown / White belt).
Next grading is March or September, and although it is just a new Kata to learn (rather than any new techniques) realistically I need to improve the strength of my techniques, so 1st Kyu in September is a more realistic goal and then maybe 6 months to the 1st Dan black belt grading thereafter.
Sidicks
Good luckNext grading is March or September, and although it is just a new Kata to learn (rather than any new techniques) realistically I need to improve the strength of my techniques, so 1st Kyu in September is a more realistic goal and then maybe 6 months to the 1st Dan black belt grading thereafter.
Sidicks
Going for my 6th Kyu in February. Its had to take a bit of a back seat recently what with Christmas and moving house (still not found a new dojo I enjoy) just as I'm getting sorted the Christmas break strikes
What a good read this thread has been 
At the ripe old age of 37/38, joined a local club last summer/autumn (having not done anything since karate and judo as a kid, and a bit of wu shu in my uni days) with a certain amount of trepidation, I must say.
All unfounded, as the club I found has turned out to be fantastic - from Sensei down, the club was very friendly and welcoming.
Sensei was working on a new syllabus when I was invited to join properly (semi-closed dojo), and the way the ranks were working together was very good - the higher ranks still learning themselves, bringing their kohai on, but also not afraid to learn from them.
Any way, to bring my rambling to a close (guess I'm just trying to get across how positive the whole experience has been!), I'm grading for the first time in a few weeks - 9th Kyu, so thought I'd share.
Good luck with your next grading Sidicks, and keep the updates coming.
Cheers
At the ripe old age of 37/38, joined a local club last summer/autumn (having not done anything since karate and judo as a kid, and a bit of wu shu in my uni days) with a certain amount of trepidation, I must say.
All unfounded, as the club I found has turned out to be fantastic - from Sensei down, the club was very friendly and welcoming.
Sensei was working on a new syllabus when I was invited to join properly (semi-closed dojo), and the way the ranks were working together was very good - the higher ranks still learning themselves, bringing their kohai on, but also not afraid to learn from them.
Any way, to bring my rambling to a close (guess I'm just trying to get across how positive the whole experience has been!), I'm grading for the first time in a few weeks - 9th Kyu, so thought I'd share.
Good luck with your next grading Sidicks, and keep the updates coming.
Cheers
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