Murray's Clearly Not Turning Into Henman mark II
Discussion
elster said:
ascayman said:
yes but i didn’t start the thread and have at no point compared henman to murry as quiet frankly there is nothing to compare them on, murry has already had far far more successful career then henman and he still has another 6/7 years to go.
yeah of course players care about rankings princeably as it gives them better draws in the slams.......
if you gave rafa the choice of the assuie open or to regain his no 1 slot what do you think he'd say?
if you gave federer the choice of three more slams and no 2 in the world or no 1 for the next three years but no slams what do you think he'd take?
Of course you would prefer to be winning slams. That isn't in question, you are saying the players don't care about rankings which they do.yeah of course players care about rankings princeably as it gives them better draws in the slams.......
if you gave rafa the choice of the assuie open or to regain his no 1 slot what do you think he'd say?
if you gave federer the choice of three more slams and no 2 in the world or no 1 for the next three years but no slams what do you think he'd take?
Edited by ascayman on Monday 14th September 14:06
elster said:
ascayman said:
yes but i didn’t start the thread and have at no point compared henman to murry as quiet frankly there is nothing to compare them on, murry has already had far far more successful career then henman and he still has another 6/7 years to go.
yeah of course players care about rankings princeably as it gives them better draws in the slams.......
if you gave rafa the choice of the assuie open or to regain his no 1 slot what do you think he'd say?
if you gave federer the choice of three more slams and no 2 in the world or no 1 for the next three years but no slams what do you think he'd take?
Of course you would prefer to be winning slams. That isn't in question, you are saying the players don't care about rankings which they do.yeah of course players care about rankings princeably as it gives them better draws in the slams.......
if you gave rafa the choice of the assuie open or to regain his no 1 slot what do you think he'd say?
if you gave federer the choice of three more slams and no 2 in the world or no 1 for the next three years but no slams what do you think he'd take?
Having said that, I do agree that performance in the grand slams plays a major part in defining a player's career. Given his performance in the Masters series there's little doubt in my mind that Murray has the ability to win grand slams but actually doing it is another matter. I hope and believe he will in the not too distant future and when he does I think it will be the "buses syndrome" and he'll go on to win more. Equally, however, the longer he goes without winning one the more it will become a monkey on his back (not least because some sections of the British press will no doubt love to rub-in every failure!).
As a final point, although his performance at the US Open this year was disappointing, Murray out-performed his ranking to reach the final last year and also made the semi-final at Wimbledon this year. I think only Federer and Nadal can better his record in grand slams over the last 12 months and of the other players perhaps only Roddick can come close to matching it; therefore, while it's not as good as we (and he) would like it's not the total disaster some would have you believe!
Age when winning their first Grand Slam:
Rafael Nadal 19
Lleyton Hewitt 19
Boris Becker 17
Pete Sampras 19
John McEnroe 20
Andy Roddick 21
Jimmy Connors 22
Andre Agassi 22
Roger Federer 22
Another one to add...
Juan Martin Del Potro 20
Sorry - lets add some more:
Novak Djokovic 21
Marat Safin 20
In fact, just about everybody who's won a Grand Slam has won it by the time they are Murray's age - with the odd exception...ie Gaston Gaudio (...who?)
Rafael Nadal 19
Lleyton Hewitt 19
Boris Becker 17
Pete Sampras 19
John McEnroe 20
Andy Roddick 21
Jimmy Connors 22
Andre Agassi 22
Roger Federer 22
Another one to add...
Juan Martin Del Potro 20
Sorry - lets add some more:
Novak Djokovic 21
Marat Safin 20
In fact, just about everybody who's won a Grand Slam has won it by the time they are Murray's age - with the odd exception...ie Gaston Gaudio (...who?)
Edited by im on Tuesday 15th September 11:54
im said:
Age when winning their first Grand Slam:
Rafael Nadal 19
Lleyton Hewitt 19
Boris Becker 17
Pete Sampras 19
John McEnroe 20
Andy Roddick 21
Jimmy Connors 22
Andre Agassi 22
Roger Federer 22
Another one to add...
Juan Martin Del Potro 20
Well, I did say that Del Potro was one of those who could come along and overtake Murray if Murray doesn't continue to improve his game!Rafael Nadal 19
Lleyton Hewitt 19
Boris Becker 17
Pete Sampras 19
John McEnroe 20
Andy Roddick 21
Jimmy Connors 22
Andre Agassi 22
Roger Federer 22
Another one to add...
Juan Martin Del Potro 20
Always slightly disappointed to see Federer lose and he had his chances last night. However, well done to Del Potro; he played a great US Open and it's good to see another player come through who's capable of winning majors. I also think anyone who beats Nadal and Federer back to back deserves to win the tournament!
A perfect illustration of how, well, frankly, foreign talent simply proves once again worthy of delivering the goods when it counts.
When snooker was enjoying it's heyday, in the mid 80s, one of the players commented that at any one time, you go trawl the clubs up and down the country and uncover literally hundreds of young lads who would routinely knock in century breaks.
Put them in the cauldron of The Crucible's lights and they would largely fail.
Henman's clearly an epic success but like our football team, seems psychologically incapable of delivering what talent-wise does not appear to be lacking.
I genuinley thought he might crack this one.
When snooker was enjoying it's heyday, in the mid 80s, one of the players commented that at any one time, you go trawl the clubs up and down the country and uncover literally hundreds of young lads who would routinely knock in century breaks.
Put them in the cauldron of The Crucible's lights and they would largely fail.
Henman's clearly an epic success but like our football team, seems psychologically incapable of delivering what talent-wise does not appear to be lacking.
I genuinley thought he might crack this one.
MiniMan64 said:
Seeing as this is the only tennis thread running, Murray might not be great but at least he's no Serena I'm-going-to-kill-you-Williams. Anyone seen her semi-final outburst in the semis?
You mean this. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF8ZoevMJQc
sherman said:
MiniMan64 said:
Seeing as this is the only tennis thread running, Murray might not be great but at least he's no Serena I'm-going-to-kill-you-Williams. Anyone seen her semi-final outburst in the semis?
You mean this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF8ZoevMJQc
JNW1 said:
sherman said:
MiniMan64 said:
Seeing as this is the only tennis thread running, Murray might not be great but at least he's no Serena I'm-going-to-kill-you-Williams. Anyone seen her semi-final outburst in the semis?
You mean this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF8ZoevMJQc
Completely out of order, especially considering she goes back to have a second go at her!
MiniMan64 said:
JNW1 said:
sherman said:
MiniMan64 said:
Seeing as this is the only tennis thread running, Murray might not be great but at least he's no Serena I'm-going-to-kill-you-Williams. Anyone seen her semi-final outburst in the semis?
You mean this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF8ZoevMJQc
Completely out of order, especially considering she goes back to have a second go at her!
Didn't some guy call Lendl not win the first grand slam until he was 24? The guy is only 22 so there's still time. If Murray is still looking to win one by 27 then his chance might have passed but Federer and Nadal won't be around to dominate forever so there's still a chance.
Absurd to compare Murray to Henman - at least he's reached a slam final already.
Absurd to compare Murray to Henman - at least he's reached a slam final already.
amare32 said:
Didn't some guy call Lendl not win the first grand slam until he was 24? The guy is only 22 so there's still time. If Murray is still looking to win one by 27 then his chance might have passed but Federer and Nadal won't be around to dominate forever so there's still a chance.
Absurd to compare Murray to Henman - at least he's reached a slam final already.
The comparison was really to highlight the fact that like Henman before him he appears to be freezing when it gets down to the final stage(s) of a Grand Slam where the men are sorted from the boys. Murray is at the age now where if he's not to be another Henman he must start winning these Slams NOW.Absurd to compare Murray to Henman - at least he's reached a slam final already.
Yes there the odd - and it is odd - player who wins his first Slam after the age of 23 but its rare. You are usually where you're going to get to in the world of Tennis by the age of 22.
I hope he does start winning lots of Slams - the UK is overdue a world beating player, I just fear that perhaps we've overhyped him.
BTW: Henman also won a few 2nd string tournaments as well - which just endorses the comparison AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
Henman also reached the semi's of a Slam so the current comparison is further endorsed and frankly your comment about him reaching a final doesn't actually mean anything...so did Rusedski...and he blew it too.
im said:
amare32 said:
Didn't some guy call Lendl not win the first grand slam until he was 24? The guy is only 22 so there's still time. If Murray is still looking to win one by 27 then his chance might have passed but Federer and Nadal won't be around to dominate forever so there's still a chance.
Absurd to compare Murray to Henman - at least he's reached a slam final already.
The comparison was really to highlight the fact that like Henman before him he appears to be freezing when it gets down to the final stage(s) of a Grand Slam where the men are sorted from the boys. Murray is at the age now where if he's not to be another Henman he must start winning these Slams NOW.Absurd to compare Murray to Henman - at least he's reached a slam final already.
Yes there the odd - and it is odd - player who wins his first Slam after the age of 23 but its rare. You are usually where you're going to get to in the world of Tennis by the age of 22.
I hope he does start winning lots of Slams - the UK is overdue a world beating player, I just fear that perhaps we've overhyped him.
BTW: Henman also won a few 2nd string tournaments as well - which just endorses the comparison AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
Henman also reached the semi's of a Slam so the current comparison is further endorsed and frankly your comment about him reaching a final doesn't actually mean anything...so did Rusedski...and he blew it too.
Murray is a lot better player than Henman, the only comparison is their nationality and the sport.
im said:
elster said:
How many masters did Henman win then?
1
And reached at least 3 Slam semi's
...like I said, 2nd string tournaments.
Sorry they are men as well.1
And reached at least 3 Slam semi's
...like I said, 2nd string tournaments.
elster said:
Murray is a lot better player than Henman, the only comparison is their nationality and the sport.
Not at this point in time its not.im said:
elster said:
How many masters did Henman win then?
1
And reached at least 3 Slam semi's
...like I said, 2nd string tournaments.
Tend to agree with Elster on this! Murray has already won more titles than Henman did in his entire career, he's won more significant Masters events than Henman managed and he's got a much better record against the other top players than Henman had. The fact we have higher expectations of Murray just reinforces the point; we all hoped Henman would win a grand slam but nobody really expected him to unless the top players like Sampras and Agassi all had a bad tournament. However, because of what he's achieved so far - and because he has a good record against the other top players - we expect Murray to do well and are then disappointed when he doesn't.1
And reached at least 3 Slam semi's
...like I said, 2nd string tournaments.
elster said:
Murray is a lot better player than Henman, the only comparison is their nationality and the sport.
Not at this point in time its not.I still believe Murray will win a grand slam and when he does I think he'll go on and win more. However, I do agree that he could do with the breakthrough happening sooner rather than later because the longer he goes without winning one the more it has the potential to get in his head and become a mental block!
im said:
OK...so he's through to the Semi Final in Australia having seen off Nadal rather easily (albeit Nadal was eventually forced to retire).
He's now up against Marin Cilic the 14th seed so...
...what could possibly go wrong?
I'm not a big Murray fan but he is looking in great form at the moment. He's made it to the semis without dropping a set - Henman would have already had a five-set scare against some no-name journeyman by now!He's now up against Marin Cilic the 14th seed so...
...what could possibly go wrong?
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