The **BOXING** thread
Discussion
dirty boy said:
Just something i'd like to bring up on the coverage of boxing.
Sky have recently upped their game with Neville and Carragher doing the in depth analysis of football, we get statistics galore for us fans to pour over for ours considering the finer details of the game.
When is Boxing going to catch up?
The best we get is a record card and if we're lucky a tale of the tape. Ringside have technical stuff, Nelson being a really good presenter for a boxing show, but I always feel us fans are missing out on so much.
Corners. Foul language is probably the issue, but i'd love to hear 'exactly' what both corners are saying. If advertising is an issue, get a 'ticker tape' along the bottom, no different to advertising hoardings at football matches. Sometimes we're lucky, other times we're not.
I'd like clearer information on fight night weights, yes they weighed the same, but what about on fight night, we often have to google furiously for that kind of information, make it available instantly so we have something else to talk about.
Referee. Rugby does it, let's hear what he has to say.
Anything else you'd like to see introduced.
More seriously, I have mixed views on the above. I think I would enjoy more analytical reviews of fights; along the lines of the youtube Golovkin 'shifting' analysis that was posted on here a few weeks back - the sort of stuff you wouldn't necessarily pick up without the benefit of slo-mo replays and someone who knows their stuff pointing it out. Regarding increasing the amount of statistical info, to an extent, yes (I like your example of ring weight, not just weigh-in weight) but would it be of interest to me to know Chris Eubank jr attempted an average of 6.2 upper cuts per round over the latter half of his fight against Billy Joe Saunders versus a career average of 2.1? Truthfully...not massively, no - but there again, I'm not really of the PlayStation FIFA Championship Manager generation...perhaps if I had grown up more in that culture, maybe I'd be more enamoured by the prospect of an increasing level of Opta-type statistical analysis in boxing. It would be interesting to hear the thoughts of others on that...is it just a personal thing or more of a generational difference?Sky have recently upped their game with Neville and Carragher doing the in depth analysis of football, we get statistics galore for us fans to pour over for ours considering the finer details of the game.
When is Boxing going to catch up?
The best we get is a record card and if we're lucky a tale of the tape. Ringside have technical stuff, Nelson being a really good presenter for a boxing show, but I always feel us fans are missing out on so much.
Corners. Foul language is probably the issue, but i'd love to hear 'exactly' what both corners are saying. If advertising is an issue, get a 'ticker tape' along the bottom, no different to advertising hoardings at football matches. Sometimes we're lucky, other times we're not.
I'd like clearer information on fight night weights, yes they weighed the same, but what about on fight night, we often have to google furiously for that kind of information, make it available instantly so we have something else to talk about.
Referee. Rugby does it, let's hear what he has to say.
Anything else you'd like to see introduced.
I like the in-depth analysis like that Golovkin video, but wouldn't expect to see that all the time.
The sort of stats I like are the interesting facts, such as X has only been put on the canvas once in his career, Y has never been stopped etc. The stats such as uppercuts thrown probably show that Eubank Jr reacted to the opportunities in front of him, so how Saunders blocked, rather than anything particularly fascinating.
The sort of stats I like are the interesting facts, such as X has only been put on the canvas once in his career, Y has never been stopped etc. The stats such as uppercuts thrown probably show that Eubank Jr reacted to the opportunities in front of him, so how Saunders blocked, rather than anything particularly fascinating.
In other news, Wilder vs Stiverne has been announced-
http://www1.skysports.com/boxing/news/12040/960784...
Time to find out how good Wilder really is. I don't rate him particularly highly, but we'll see. Hopefully he'll win it and one of our British fighters will get a shot at him (Fury probably).
http://www1.skysports.com/boxing/news/12040/960784...
Time to find out how good Wilder really is. I don't rate him particularly highly, but we'll see. Hopefully he'll win it and one of our British fighters will get a shot at him (Fury probably).
menousername said:
Yiliterate said:
Fair enough - I must admit, I was hoping for something a bit more salacious...in the finest traditions of Pistonheads, I was hoping for an 'Amir Khan Bummed My Dog!' type angle, but clearly not!
Never mind...
It's interesting you mention Boxing Scene and (presumably) Boxing News 24 - might you be confusing the comments (and tone of comment) you read on there with those on here? The reason I ask is that I can't recall anybody on here saying the Khan is the P4P best fighter in the world (frankly, I can't remember Khan saying it either, but there again I won't see/hear everything he says) or even opining where he would rank in the P4P top 10 - certainly not since the Petersen/Garcia fights. To say Khan was now the P4P king on the basis of the Alexander performance is the sort of 'forthright' (meaning strongly-expressed, myopic and not particularly well-balanced) views that are quite often posted on those sites, which then illicit equally 'forthright' views in the opposite direction. In my experience, that's just not the style on here...
Well....i just thought that if people are rating Khan's chances against the likes of Mayweather and Pacquiao they (generic "they" not at you) are basically saying he is a PFP no1 contender...based on a points victory over Devon...I thought if I put it that way it may put it back into perspectiveNever mind...
It's interesting you mention Boxing Scene and (presumably) Boxing News 24 - might you be confusing the comments (and tone of comment) you read on there with those on here? The reason I ask is that I can't recall anybody on here saying the Khan is the P4P best fighter in the world (frankly, I can't remember Khan saying it either, but there again I won't see/hear everything he says) or even opining where he would rank in the P4P top 10 - certainly not since the Petersen/Garcia fights. To say Khan was now the P4P king on the basis of the Alexander performance is the sort of 'forthright' (meaning strongly-expressed, myopic and not particularly well-balanced) views that are quite often posted on those sites, which then illicit equally 'forthright' views in the opposite direction. In my experience, that's just not the style on here...
And my quote / reply to your post was just to explain I have no problem with Khan generally. Rest of the post i went on to make was just general commenting not directed at anyone.
24 in particlar does descend into poor commenting and trash talking I do admit...that's a shame
Really enjoy hearing everyone's analysis hope this thread continues to be popular
Generally don't favour any one boxer just enjoy following the sport...tend to favour the underdog sometimes though. But that's why...its frustration more than hatred of Khan...he should have been more active should have backed it up dealt with the big names in his new weight and now be talking himself up with that CV behind him...he had the time to do that...all he can do now is continue to talk it up in the desparate hope he will land Mayweather...if he now tries to build the CV you are looking at 2 years and that's too late...Mayweathers definitely retired by then...too little too late. This weekend pretty much everyone called out Mayweather...everyone in the weight wants that fight...that's where Khan is...take a number, wait and hope like everyone else.
For what its worth I think Brook can take Khan in a difficult close fight by timing him as he comes in. But like I said I have no preference either way...just fight...
My personal opinion is that Khan is a legitimate contender and, apart from each other, is the opponent in the Welterweight division that would carry the greatest threat to either Floyd or Manny (with the possible exception of Marquez for Pacquiao). However, I wouldn’t make Khan favourite against either…but that said, neither would I make him a massive underdog. If he were to win against Floyd – maybe slightly less so with Manny – he would probably feature in the P4P top 10, but whereabouts in that list would be dependent on the manner of the victory. Even if he won as convincingly as he did against Alexander, he would probably still need a couple more good wins to claim the top spot; otherwise there would still be a lingering question of whether Khan had just caught Floyd at the right time; had Father Time finally caught up with him, etc…
I’m happy to take your word for it that you don’t have any issue with Khan, but the reason it comes across like that is you repeatedly undermine Khan’s credentials in respect of lining up a fight with Mayweather or Pacquiao, but without any acknowledgement that, similarly, you can pick holes with any of the current or recent contenders’ claims, if you’re so minded. You think Khan needs to build his Welterweight CV before he can get a shot…so how come Manny Pacquiao’s last defence was against a fighter who had never fought at Welterweight before and had only one recognised name on his CV? How did Maidana earn not one, but two, shots at Mayweather when the only big name Welterweight on his CV was actually a blown-up Lightweight (or should that be a boiled-down Cruiserweight?!)? Who else out there has a clearly superior claim? Marquez? Maybe…but there again, he’s only fought twice in the last couple of years, which included losing to Bradley, and his record as a Welterweight currently stands at 2-3. So Bradley then. Well, he had his shot a few months back…came up well short; he didn’t even manage to win his last fight (dodgy scoring aside) against a relatively unheralded opponent. Brook? Thurman? Great prospects...but in terms of recognised opponents, Brook only has one and Thurman has one less than Brook. Porter and Alexander are both licking their wounds after defeats, as was Broner, who has now simultaneously gone down and up in weight. Anyone else…?
Edited by Yiliterate on Tuesday 16th December 12:55
Yiliterate said:
Okay, well your initial comment was not wanting to hear Khan being hyped up to be the P4P no.1; it’s a bit of a step to reach that conclusion from the starting point of people rating his chances against either Mayweather or Pacquiao. Essentially, it would assume that people holding that view not only believed him to be a legitimate contender, but basically a guaranteed winner. Not only that, but in doing so, that would then automatically make them the P4P best fighter in the world. I wouldn't wish to speak for anyone else but I’m pretty certain nobody on here has expressed a view with such finality.
As you point out, no-one on here has gone any further than what the Sky pundits said on Sunday morning. They ranked him up there with Mayweather and Pacquaio, but none said he would win.I have always liked Khan and still believe that he isn't being given the credit he deserves. He has fought some big names and has never backed out of a fight- in fact the way he is handling Brook right now is a slight exception to this, but he always said he wanted Mayweather so at least he's consistent.
We could have a bumper 2015 though! The way I would like to see it is Mayweather vs Pacquaio and Khan vs Brook (not on the same card though, but both in the summer). The heavyweights will provide us some excitement too- AJ has a big fight early on, but I think will be challenging either Fury or Price in the summer.
tuscaneer said:
Amirhussain said:
tuscaneer said:
I don't think mayweather will fight khan after that . phenomenal performance yet again from amir.
Career best win for Andy Lee there . absolutely made up for him.wonder who's next??? I bet Peter quillin feels like a
now for running g away from korobov! !
Think Billy Joe Saunders is going to fight Andy Lee soon, number 1 contender for his world title.Career best win for Andy Lee there . absolutely made up for him.wonder who's next??? I bet Peter quillin feels like a
now for running g away from korobov! !Just confirming what we all knew - Mickey Rourke's opponent was paid to dive for the canvas. Sad all the same.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/1129...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/1129...
Yiliterate said:
tuscaneer said:
Amirhussain said:
tuscaneer said:
I don't think mayweather will fight khan after that . phenomenal performance yet again from amir.
Career best win for Andy Lee there . absolutely made up for him.wonder who's next??? I bet Peter quillin feels like a now for running g away from korobov! !
Think Billy Joe Saunders is going to fight Andy Lee soon, number 1 contender for his world title.Career best win for Andy Lee there . absolutely made up for him.wonder who's next??? I bet Peter quillin feels like a
now for running g away from korobov! ![quote=Yiliterate]
I’m happy to take your word for it that you don’t have any issue with Khan, but the reason it comes across like that is you repeatedly undermine Khan’s credentials in respect of lining up a fight with Mayweather or Pacquiao, but without any acknowledgement that, similarly, you can pick holes with any of the current or recent contenders’ claims, if you’re so minded. You think Khan needs to build his Welterweight CV before he can get a shot…so how come Manny Pacquiao’s last defence was against a fighter who had never fought at Welterweight before and had only one recognised name on his CV? How did Maidana earn not one, but two, shots at Mayweather when the only big name Welterweight on his CV was actually a blown-up Lightweight (or should that be a boiled-down Cruiserweight?!)? Who else out there has a clearly superior claim? Marquez? Maybe…but there again, he’s only fought twice in the last couple of years, which included losing to Bradley, and his record as a Welterweight currently stands at 2-3. So Bradley then. Well, he had his shot a few months back…came up well short; he didn’t even manage to win his last fight (dodgy scoring aside) against a relatively unheralded opponent. Brook? Thurman? Great prospects...but in terms of recognised opponents, Brook only has one and Thurman has one less than Brook. Porter and Alexander are both licking their wounds after defeats, as was Broner, who has now simultaneously gone down and up in weight. Anyone else…?
/quote]
This, spot on analysis!
Everyone is banging on about 'not deserving' a shot at Floyd or Manny; but who actually does deserve to fight these guys?
Personally, Mayweather is not going to fight Khan and I honestly believe the fight won't happen no matter what crap comes from both camps. Floyd is smart, he is interested in 2 things, the Hall of Fame for retiring undefeated and being a businessman and making money.
With Khan, Floyd he has a opponent 10 years junior to him, hungry and no doubt the fastest hands in the business. You can deal with rough tactics/heavy punchers but how does one deal with blistering speed, the answer is you can't (unless you get lucky like Garcia did with his power hook but Floyd doesn't have this)
If you look back at the last 6 fights for Floyd, not a single opponent has had speed and decent combinations and he made them all look amateurish.
I think Floyd will take on Manny in May, he knows that a) it will give him the biggest pay day 2) Manny is not the same Manny as he was 2 years ago, so he is less dangerous than Khan (taking his age and recent defeats into account)
Manny has been talking about going down to the 140/134 but if the fight does happen, I think Floyd will probably want a catch weight of 152 like he did with Canelo (to try to tire Manny out in the latter rounds)
Just my 2 pence . . .
I’m happy to take your word for it that you don’t have any issue with Khan, but the reason it comes across like that is you repeatedly undermine Khan’s credentials in respect of lining up a fight with Mayweather or Pacquiao, but without any acknowledgement that, similarly, you can pick holes with any of the current or recent contenders’ claims, if you’re so minded. You think Khan needs to build his Welterweight CV before he can get a shot…so how come Manny Pacquiao’s last defence was against a fighter who had never fought at Welterweight before and had only one recognised name on his CV? How did Maidana earn not one, but two, shots at Mayweather when the only big name Welterweight on his CV was actually a blown-up Lightweight (or should that be a boiled-down Cruiserweight?!)? Who else out there has a clearly superior claim? Marquez? Maybe…but there again, he’s only fought twice in the last couple of years, which included losing to Bradley, and his record as a Welterweight currently stands at 2-3. So Bradley then. Well, he had his shot a few months back…came up well short; he didn’t even manage to win his last fight (dodgy scoring aside) against a relatively unheralded opponent. Brook? Thurman? Great prospects...but in terms of recognised opponents, Brook only has one and Thurman has one less than Brook. Porter and Alexander are both licking their wounds after defeats, as was Broner, who has now simultaneously gone down and up in weight. Anyone else…?
/quote]
This, spot on analysis!
Everyone is banging on about 'not deserving' a shot at Floyd or Manny; but who actually does deserve to fight these guys?
Personally, Mayweather is not going to fight Khan and I honestly believe the fight won't happen no matter what crap comes from both camps. Floyd is smart, he is interested in 2 things, the Hall of Fame for retiring undefeated and being a businessman and making money.
With Khan, Floyd he has a opponent 10 years junior to him, hungry and no doubt the fastest hands in the business. You can deal with rough tactics/heavy punchers but how does one deal with blistering speed, the answer is you can't (unless you get lucky like Garcia did with his power hook but Floyd doesn't have this)
If you look back at the last 6 fights for Floyd, not a single opponent has had speed and decent combinations and he made them all look amateurish.
I think Floyd will take on Manny in May, he knows that a) it will give him the biggest pay day 2) Manny is not the same Manny as he was 2 years ago, so he is less dangerous than Khan (taking his age and recent defeats into account)
Manny has been talking about going down to the 140/134 but if the fight does happen, I think Floyd will probably want a catch weight of 152 like he did with Canelo (to try to tire Manny out in the latter rounds)
Just my 2 pence . . .
I'm certain that if a Pacquiao - Mayweather fight ever materialised it wouldn't be at 152. Why would either man want to fight at a weight that's not comfortable for either one of them to make? Both are naturally small guys and by all accounts Mayweather weighs in at 150/151 for both Welterweight and Junior Middleweight fights come fight night. It's very difficult to verify this though as he gives as little information away as possible.
I was always felt as though Khan needed to earn his shot at Mayweather or Pacquiao and to my mind he was always one solid win/fight away. The Peterson fight he came up short but it was since proven that Peterson was juicing, Garcia fight he got careless and caught cold (not a lucky punch as that is Danny's trademark punch and he had caught him with it as early as round 2) but finally he fought a smart fight against Alexander and put on a superb performance. I now have no issues with his name being touted, it belongs up there with Maidana, Thurman, Bradley, Marquez, etc..
With regards to Khan's speed bothering Mayweather, you may have a point but Judah is probably the fastest fighter I have ever seen and he got neautralised in 5 rounds but that was against a younger and faster Mayweather. And if you think Khan will use the same ambush tactics (jumping in with fast hard combos leaving his chin out to air) against Mayweather then he would be in a lot of trouble. If they ever do fight, he will be cagey and extra cautious in fear of being cracked with sharp counters all night long. Styles make fights and unless father time catches up with him, he isn't being outboxed by anyone.
I was always felt as though Khan needed to earn his shot at Mayweather or Pacquiao and to my mind he was always one solid win/fight away. The Peterson fight he came up short but it was since proven that Peterson was juicing, Garcia fight he got careless and caught cold (not a lucky punch as that is Danny's trademark punch and he had caught him with it as early as round 2) but finally he fought a smart fight against Alexander and put on a superb performance. I now have no issues with his name being touted, it belongs up there with Maidana, Thurman, Bradley, Marquez, etc..
With regards to Khan's speed bothering Mayweather, you may have a point but Judah is probably the fastest fighter I have ever seen and he got neautralised in 5 rounds but that was against a younger and faster Mayweather. And if you think Khan will use the same ambush tactics (jumping in with fast hard combos leaving his chin out to air) against Mayweather then he would be in a lot of trouble. If they ever do fight, he will be cagey and extra cautious in fear of being cracked with sharp counters all night long. Styles make fights and unless father time catches up with him, he isn't being outboxed by anyone.
Robatr0n said:
With regards to Khan's speed bothering Mayweather, you may have a point but Judah is probably the fastest fighter I have ever seen and he got neautralised in 5 rounds but that was against a younger and faster Mayweather. And if you think Khan will use the same ambush tactics (jumping in with fast hard combos leaving his chin out to air) against Mayweather then he would be in a lot of trouble. If they ever do fight, he will be cagey and extra cautious in fear of being cracked with sharp counters all night long. Styles make fights and unless father time catches up with him, he isn't being outboxed by anyone.
Fair point but Khan totally destroyed Judah; so badly it was pretty embarrassing for Zab. His fast hands were no where to be seen. Agreed he was older etc but he didn't even account for himself, Khan schooled him.I rate Floyd with his boxing brain and how he always 'adapts' to every fighter he is in the ring with. But, as I said before, he hasn't faced anyone as quick as Khan for a long time (I don't think Zab was as quick personally)
Apparently Eddie Hearn has already booked Wembley for June 13th, trying to get Brook and Khan to fight. Khans not happy about this, as expected.
Even though Kell is champion, Khan just brings much much more to the table. More popular here in the UK, and in the US. Maybe Brook should go to the US and fight the Bradley's and Maidana's to raise his profile, and also to see if he really belongs amongst the world class.
Even though Kell is champion, Khan just brings much much more to the table. More popular here in the UK, and in the US. Maybe Brook should go to the US and fight the Bradley's and Maidana's to raise his profile, and also to see if he really belongs amongst the world class.
SR7492 said:
Fair point but Khan totally destroyed Judah; so badly it was pretty embarrassing for Zab. His fast hands were no where to be seen. Agreed he was older etc but he didn't even account for himself, Khan schooled him.
I rate Floyd with his boxing brain and how he always 'adapts' to every fighter he is in the ring with. But, as I said before, he hasn't faced anyone as quick as Khan for a long time (I don't think Zab was as quick personally)
Right, but Judah was so far removed from his prime that losing was merely a formality. In his younger days, he had blistering speed but never the discipline to stick to a game plan. I rate Floyd with his boxing brain and how he always 'adapts' to every fighter he is in the ring with. But, as I said before, he hasn't faced anyone as quick as Khan for a long time (I don't think Zab was as quick personally)
I hope Mayweather does entertain the Khan fight, it'll be great for boxing (certainly in the UK) and Amir will get that payday he has been gunning for but unless Mayweather gets old overnight, the fight is his all day long.
I'm happy to go on record and predict Floyd will beat Manny and Amir easily, if Manny gets that far.
Amir deserves a shot, not least for his willingness to fight anyone, but I'm afraid Floyd is different class and the only hope Amir has is Floyd is on a sudden downslope. His biggest driver is the payday, which is fair enough. Why not avenge his defeat to Garcia? That would impress me. Before the Algieri fight, Freddy Roach was talking about Manny fighting Danny Garcia. If that happens, Manny gets knocked out and Floyd will never fight him.
Amir deserves a shot, not least for his willingness to fight anyone, but I'm afraid Floyd is different class and the only hope Amir has is Floyd is on a sudden downslope. His biggest driver is the payday, which is fair enough. Why not avenge his defeat to Garcia? That would impress me. Before the Algieri fight, Freddy Roach was talking about Manny fighting Danny Garcia. If that happens, Manny gets knocked out and Floyd will never fight him.
Robatr0n said:
SR7492 said:
Fair point but Khan totally destroyed Judah; so badly it was pretty embarrassing for Zab. His fast hands were no where to be seen. Agreed he was older etc but he didn't even account for himself, Khan schooled him.
I rate Floyd with his boxing brain and how he always 'adapts' to every fighter he is in the ring with. But, as I said before, he hasn't faced anyone as quick as Khan for a long time (I don't think Zab was as quick personally)
Amir will get that payday he has been gunning for but unless Mayweather gets old overnight, the fight is his all day long. I rate Floyd with his boxing brain and how he always 'adapts' to every fighter he is in the ring with. But, as I said before, he hasn't faced anyone as quick as Khan for a long time (I don't think Zab was as quick personally)
I know I keep banging on about him, but Brook if after a payday, he knows Khan will be the biggest fight of his career. His a nobody in the US, and doesn't bring much to the table in terms of excitement and big fights. Even Eddie Hearn must know that.
Amirhussain said:
IMO after his fight against Alexander, I don't think its all about the mega payday now. I think Khan genuinely believes he'll beat Mayweather.
I know I keep banging on about him, but Brook if after a payday, he knows Khan will be the biggest fight of his career. His a nobody in the US, and doesn't bring much to the table in terms of excitement and big fights. Even Eddie Hearn must know that.
Spot on!I know I keep banging on about him, but Brook if after a payday, he knows Khan will be the biggest fight of his career. His a nobody in the US, and doesn't bring much to the table in terms of excitement and big fights. Even Eddie Hearn must know that.
I think Floyd realises that in Khan there is a real chance of losing (not that I'm saying he will, personally I think Khan will come short in the 12 rounds)
Kell hasn't fought much in the last 2 years therefore hasn't made much money (he admitted this on Sky) so he is really looking to cash in now that he has won the belt and by calling Khan out (his only real money making option after his mandatory)
The problem with Kell and Hearn is they are starting to sound desperate by trying to entice the Khan camp.
Yiliterate said:
Just came in to see if anyone had posted that, so bloody sad hopefully he'll get another title shot once he recovers..Those scum should be banged up for a long time.tuscaneer said:
Yiliterate said:
tuscaneer said:
Amirhussain said:
tuscaneer said:
I don't think mayweather will fight khan after that . phenomenal performance yet again from amir.
Career best win for Andy Lee there . absolutely made up for him.wonder who's next??? I bet Peter quillin feels like a now for running g away from korobov! !
Think Billy Joe Saunders is going to fight Andy Lee soon, number 1 contender for his world title.Career best win for Andy Lee there . absolutely made up for him.wonder who's next??? I bet Peter quillin feels like a
now for running g away from korobov! !Like you, I was baffled by Kid Chocolate's decision to vacate. On paper, Korobov was a threat, but his record didn't show him to be the second coming of Golovkin. Have just read the below article though and it gives a bit more background to the decision. Still, big call to give up the belt...but at least he has the talent to get himself back to the top table pretty quickly.
http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles-front...
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