The **BOXING** thread

[FredClogs]

I watched a huge documentary on PBS American History channel (it's on Sky somewhere) about Jack Johnson over the weekend, it's about 5 hours long (in two parts) but really fascinating to learn the legend of the man, the shocking discrimination of the times and to watch the footage that exists from those days. I wonder how the Heavyweights of today would handle him over a 45 round bout?

[tuscaneer]

FredClogs said:

I watched a huge documentary on PBS American History channel (it's on Sky somewhere) about Jack Johnson over the weekend, it's about 5 hours long (in two parts) but really fascinating to learn the legend of the man, the shocking discrimination of the times and to watch the footage that exists from those days. I wonder how the Heavyweights of today would handle him over a 45 round bout?

cracking documentary that, watched it last year.

I think Johnson looked so good at the time because he was a natural counter puncher. from what I have read, the "science" of the sport as it existed in bare knuckle format in it's heyday of the late 1700s/early 1800's had been lost. there was no television etc. and so all the knowledge of the great fighters of the past like Mendoza, broughton and cribb had largely been lost in the forgotten age of pugilism from the middle of the 1800's up to pure bare knuckle fightings last great champion in jem mace.

mace was doing his best in Australia to teach the lost art to the new breed of fighters like peter Jackson and young griffo but the sport was growing exponentially in America with the first superstar of boxing in john l Sullivan (who spanned both the bare knuckle and gloved era).....at that time the sport was gaining momentum with fighters of skill like gentleman jim Corbett and bob fitzimmons emerging along side the great black heavyweight from ausstralia peter Jackson.

jack Johnson emerged at a time when the colour line was firmly drawn by what was , it's fair to say, a fallow period for white heavyweights. Johnson, of course, took the belt from tommy burns and continued himself to draw the colour line by not fighting the other great black heavyweights of the time for his title. he was a smart fighter and smarter business man. he knew if he gave a title shots to Langford, Jeanette, mcvea etc. that he risked losing his belt.....instead he feasted upon the dross in the ranks of the white no hopers and so the era of the great white hope was born.

as for his standing today.........

I think he was a fantastic champion who's style paved the way for the likes of robinson and ultimately ali who followed in the coming decades......i'd love to see a dream match up with ali and Johnson!!! that would be something!!...as good as he was his embryonic style of countering and punishing would most likely get timed and beaten by the likes of joe Louis and the heavyweight champs of note who followed.

one thing is for sure, the heavyweights changed forever after Johnson's influence

Edited by tuscaneer on Tuesday 10th February 09:30

[FredClogs]

He was certainly one hell of a man and lived life to the fullest, it's amazing to think back then with limited global communication that a boxer from his background could become a global household name, makes Floyd Mayweather's antics and bravado look a bit needy by comparison.

[tuscaneer]

.....son of a sharecropper who was a superstar and globetrotter at a time when most folk didn't even leave their home towns. his indignation in the face of very real threats to his liberty and even life were brave beyond comprehension. my only negative where johnson is concerned is that he never fought the greatest fighters of his time...ironically because they were black .

his flashiness was legendary, my favourite story was that he was driving his very expensive racing car too fast through a village and the local sheriff stopped him and issued him a $10 speeding fine. i suppose that was quite a lot at the turn of the last century!!......anyway, jack tossed him a $20 bill and said to keep the change as he would be driving back through town in the same manner later that evening!!

[tuscaneer]

just got a couple of cool bits of memorabilia!!

a vintage glove signed at the 1990 boxing hall of fame induction by; willie pep, sandy saddler, billy conn, ike williams, kid gavilan and carmen basilio!! sadly all those guys are long gone now but at least that means (for me!!) they can't sign any more stuff!!

also got a henry armstrong signed letter, fully mounted with a cracking display photo!!!!! again, henry died 30 years ago so it's not like jake la motta who is signing stuff all day every day which diminishes values a lot..

today was a good day!

[Yazar]

Amirhussain said:

Mayweather v Paqman still going to happen, or is the hype dying off?...

Becoming best buddies...

http://philboxing.com/news/story-103907.html

[Yiliterate]

tuscaneer said:

just got a couple of cool bits of memorabilia!!

a vintage glove signed at the 1990 boxing hall of fame induction by; willie pep, sandy saddler, billy conn, ike williams, kid gavilan and carmen basilio!! sadly all those guys are long gone now but at least that means (for me!!) they can't sign any more stuff!!

also got a henry armstrong signed letter, fully mounted with a cracking display photo!!!!! again, henry died 30 years ago so it's not like jake la motta who is signing stuff all day every day which diminishes values a lot..

today was a good day!

Nice work! Where did you get those - from the US or were they already over here?

Not quite the same league, but a few weeks ago I found I had Alan Minter's autograph! Think my Dad got it for me when I played rugby against his son when we were young kids (Ross Minter, who didn't have too bad a pro career either). Strangely enough it was between Jeffrey Archer and Oliver Reed...what a dinner party that would have been!

[tuscaneer]

Yiliterate said:

Nice work! Where did you get those - from the US or were they already over here?

Not quite the same league, but a few weeks ago I found I had Alan Minter's autograph! Think my Dad got it for me when I played rugby against his son when we were young kids (Ross Minter, who didn't have too bad a pro career either). Strangely enough it was between Jeffrey Archer and Oliver Reed...what a dinner party that would have been!

I've met minter and got a photo....lovely fella....and yeah, everyone forgets about his lad he was a decent pro. I wasn't aware he played rugby to be honest!
What position were you? I was hooker when I was younger but everyone else seemed to get bigger earlier than me so I packed it in. I caught up size wise in my late teens but I'd hung me hat on boxing by then.

Rule of thumb for me and memorabilia. .....stay away from eBay unless it's a recognizable dealer.i try to buy stuff like letters and cheques for the more expensive stuff cus they're near impossible to fake. I still regret not buying a rocky marciano cheque back in the 90s for 700 quid.....i saw one last week for 3 grand!!!!!

There's a dealer over Manchester called champsuk. ..real boxing guy and he gets a lot of the vintage and fight worn stuff. Have a look on the site but allow yourself an hour or two!!!!

my holy grail is to get anything signed by jem mace but obviously by the time you get back past the fifties stuff gets really pricey....never mind stuff from the early 1900s. He was dead by 1908 so you can imagine getting anything involved with mace is like finding hens teeth

[STW2010]

This would have been good!

http://www.champsuk.com/i-1698/arturo-gatti-and-mi...

[STW2010]

Quite tempted by this-

Signed by Froch and Kessler!

[tuscaneer]

STW2010 said:

This would have been good!

http://www.champsuk.com/i-1698/arturo-gatti-and-mi...

Very nice piece that.....i just don't like the glove. I'm dead picky with that sort of thing!!! I've got a micky ward everlast glove and I really want a gatti everlast so I can get the pair in a case.
I love all the fight worn stuff but you need to have very deep pockets to get into that st!!!

I've just bounced a duel signed wlad/vitali because it was on a stty glove.
I notice that if the glove isn't a proper leather job (ie the cheap elasticated wrist things that aren't leather) the signatures bleed out and fade over time

[tuscaneer]

STW2010 said:

Quite tempted by this-

Signed by Froch and Kessler!

I was chewing over that yesterday.......The wife would have fking killed me!!! As it was it turned into quite an expensive day!. I had to come off the site cus I could have gone nuts!!

[STW2010]

Rose-Carson. That ref should not be involved in boxing. fking disgrace

[Amirhussain]

STW2010 said:

Rose-Carson. That ref should not be involved in boxing. fking disgrace

Terry Flanagan v Ormond fight? Read some comments slating the ref, what did he do?

[tuscaneer]

Amirhussain said:

STW2010 said:

Rose-Carson. That ref should not be involved in boxing. fking disgrace

Terry Flanagan v Ormond fight? Read some comments slating the ref, what did he do?

Ian john lewis strikes again.....The guy has been before the board on a few occasions for dubious refereeing and dubious scorecards as a judge. Defo a premature stoppage but I've got to be honest. ...Rose was on the verge of going there....

As for flannagen ormerod fight.....He was deducted a point in the previous round for butting and persisted....looking for a way out???? Maybe

[tuscaneer]

.....well this little number certainly trumps my joey maxim signed photo!!!

http://www.champsuk.com/i-3024/joey-maxim-fight-wo...

[STW2010]

tuscaneer said:

Ian john lewis strikes again.....The guy has been before the board on a few occasions for dubious refereeing and dubious scorecards as a judge. Defo a premature stoppage but I've got to be honest. ...Rose was on the verge of going there....

As for flannagen ormerod fight.....He was deducted a point in the previous round for butting and persisted....looking for a way out???? Maybe

Rose was definitely hurt, but he stumbled rather than lost his legs. He was fine at the point of stoppage.

Experience would have told him to take a knee, but he wasn't hurt enough to justify a stoppage so why would he poor refereeing.

[tuscaneer]

STW2010 said:

Rose was definitely hurt, but he stumbled rather than lost his legs. He was fine at the point of stoppage.

Experience would have told him to take a knee, but he wasn't hurt enough to justify a stoppage so why would he poor refereeing.

definately agree.......when you watch the fking hiding he recieved at the hands of andrade last year versus that on saturday night........

[hornetrider]

I'm sick to death of this fking circus. Just get on with it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/boxin...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/31484837

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/mayw...

[tuscaneer]

hornetrider said:

I'm sick to death of this fking circus. Just get on with it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/boxin...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/31484837

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/mayw...

it's already 6 years overdue........i can see us being robbed of it