The **BOXING** thread
Discussion
It's off
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/8427743.stm
I'm not questioning Pacman, but it's a bit odd. He doesn't duck anyone, but now he is? Over something as trivial as a blood test?
He takes 3 or 4 days to recover? What? The recovery from giving blood is about 24 hours, a blood test, is not the same quantity, not anywhere near, around a 1/3 that of a donation, and it's not proportional.
I think it's actually odd on Pacman and not Mayweather this one?
There must be a reason PBF has asked for this, it's not a deal breaker IMO.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/8427743.stm
I'm not questioning Pacman, but it's a bit odd. He doesn't duck anyone, but now he is? Over something as trivial as a blood test?
He takes 3 or 4 days to recover? What? The recovery from giving blood is about 24 hours, a blood test, is not the same quantity, not anywhere near, around a 1/3 that of a donation, and it's not proportional.
I think it's actually odd on Pacman and not Mayweather this one?
There must be a reason PBF has asked for this, it's not a deal breaker IMO.
a bit more info has come to light here.bob arum is saying that manny is prepred to undergo three blood tests.one now,one in january on one in the locker room after the fight.the reason they don`t want the usda to administer the tests is because they won`t bend their rules to accomodate the fighters and insist that they will take as many random blood tests as they want right up to the fight.this is the concern for pacquiao`s camp.independent dope testing(can`t remember the name of the outfit)has stated that manny`s offer of unlimited urine testing coupled with the three blood tests is way beyond what would be required to detect any juicing whatsoever.
it`s interesting that all this has happened because floyd senior is upset about manny`s progression through the weights.in an interview yesterday he stated that he thought it was impossible for a man to come up through so many weight divisions apparently getting stronger with size.
it`s as if he is SO impressed by the feat that the only way he can rationalize it is by convincing himself ot`s steroids.he backed his claims up by stating that manny could not fight a lick!therefore he must be a steg head.
the way i see it is that arum`s statement is quite transparent and open.why should pacquiao be subjected to (in theory)a blood test on the day of the fight when he has already agreed to unlimited urine tests and three separate blood tests?i don`t see why the mayweather camp are making such a fuss about this but arum has given them until today to retract their usda demands or the fight is off.is this what they actually want?
it`s interesting that all this has happened because floyd senior is upset about manny`s progression through the weights.in an interview yesterday he stated that he thought it was impossible for a man to come up through so many weight divisions apparently getting stronger with size.
it`s as if he is SO impressed by the feat that the only way he can rationalize it is by convincing himself ot`s steroids.he backed his claims up by stating that manny could not fight a lick!therefore he must be a steg head.
the way i see it is that arum`s statement is quite transparent and open.why should pacquiao be subjected to (in theory)a blood test on the day of the fight when he has already agreed to unlimited urine tests and three separate blood tests?i don`t see why the mayweather camp are making such a fuss about this but arum has given them until today to retract their usda demands or the fight is off.is this what they actually want?
baptistsan said:
Gutted beyond belief.
Makes no sense. You donate what? A pint of blood? Blood testing requires what? 10ml? This really is suspect.
I can sort of see this from both sides (or maybe, several possible motivations - not quite the same!)Makes no sense. You donate what? A pint of blood? Blood testing requires what? 10ml? This really is suspect.
Like most here I don't like FMJ and suspect MP would win, but don't discount the opposite result as I do think Mayweather an excellent fighter, if arrogant and manipulative shot caller.
But it does sound dodgy. If the Mayweather camp are doing this to rattle (insult?) MP and the ever touchy Freddy Roach then it's worked. Either too well (assuming they do want the fight to continue - can he really bear to lose so much cash, even if he's arrogant enough to not care about his reputation with the public?) or well enough to use it as a bargaining chip - e.g let them off the blood test for some privilege in the build up or monetary 'reward'. Having seen the s
t these promoters pull and the stupid/blatantly unfair things they row over to be seen to be better than the oppo. even at the risk of cancellation I'd not be surprised.Or, it's worked well enough to have his get out of jail card, which would be disgusting but unsurprising.
From the Roach camp, are they really so insulted that they are willing to lose the chnace, the potential glory and the money just to make the point that they won't be pushed around? Is status (out of the ring) so important to them? And as for the recovery time - WTF. Absolute b
ks.This is the trouble with boxing. Too many weak controlling bodies and promoters/managers/camps with too much say.
If it doesn't go ahead of course then boxing and the fans are also losers.
this could go on for months.i`ve still not heard any resolve to floyd`s request for bigger gloves,bigger ring and a bigger tolerance band in the catchweight.i can see where bob arum is coming from but i think the way to rattle floyd`s cage would be to agree to these ridiculous requests.he`d st himself.
as to the fight itself,i honestly feel it would be an extremely close fight.i`ve played it through in my mind numerous times and you can make a point for various outcomes in favour of both of them.that`s the real pity if it doesn`t come off.it taints the history of the sport
t himself.as to the fight itself,i honestly feel it would be an extremely close fight.i`ve played it through in my mind numerous times and you can make a point for various outcomes in favour of both of them.that`s the real pity if it doesn`t come off.it taints the history of the sport
Some good points made.
I think a blood test anywhere near a week before the fight would be a bad idea, even considering the small amounts we're talking about, but having one after the fight would be a good idea.
Looks like it's as difficult to call who's being awkward and why, as it is predicting the outcome of the fight.
I think a blood test anywhere near a week before the fight would be a bad idea, even considering the small amounts we're talking about, but having one after the fight would be a good idea.
Looks like it's as difficult to call who's being awkward and why, as it is predicting the outcome of the fight.
I've been reading some other boxing forums, and it's fairly divided, most Manny fans are saying no he shouldn't, PBF fans are saying yes he should, and general fight fans are saying yes he should too.
Manny wanted to ensure PBF didn't come in overweight (Like against JMM) and stipulated $10m for every 1lb, which PBF agreed to.
They're saying no blood tests 3 days prior to the fight, but random throughout. It's equal for both fighter, I really can't see why Manny is not agreeing to this.
Manny wanted to ensure PBF didn't come in overweight (Like against JMM) and stipulated $10m for every 1lb, which PBF agreed to.
They're saying no blood tests 3 days prior to the fight, but random throughout. It's equal for both fighter, I really can't see why Manny is not agreeing to this.
tuscaneer said:
he probably isn`t aware of the enigma machines existense letalone significance.i can just see him reading this and hitting wikipedia furiously.i can`t see him popping back in here to be honest...anyway,back to the boxing........!!!
Oh knock it off.Derek deserves everything he gets for his Godawfully irritating "holier than thou" and "faux fount of all knowledge" posts he tries to make and if I had to wiki Enigma given my background I would be in trouble. Some of us have more than enough military connections to occupy our thoughts with than Dereks wafflings, including the lives and deaths of those who serve. I take as read that he doesnt have those connections, as if he did he would be a damn sight less maudling, sentimental and annoying about it.
And only 2 insulting posts in one day? Blimey, you boys must miss my others!
And couldnt see me popping in back in here? If nothing else Tusc it would be to laugh at you again finding something else to beat Mayweather with and automatically decide the whole blood thing must be about Mayweather trying to duck and that Bob Arum was being transparant. Bob Arum...transparant!!! But hey, shock, horror, its another angle for you to badmouth Mayweather about. Not that you are a broken record or anything...
And I wouldnt mind, I dont much like Mayweather myself, but I can sure as hell respect the bloke as a boxer. It irritates me profusely that someone can be so blatently and lopsidedly biased that Im moved to defend the target of their ire. Your stirring up of the popular anti-Mayweather feeling also invokes DJC rule no 2...whatever a popular majority of pistonhead feels, the opposite is almost gauranteed to be the truth.
Dirty Boy put up good info. It doesnt reflect too well on either fighter, but arguably the guy it reflects least well on is Manny and that was because there was no really good reason for him to be overly bothered about it all. I can only agree with the surmise that it is about not being seen to be pushed around by Mayweather and his demands and looking the equal of him, not an inferior supplicant. The trouble is with all this is that Manny and Roach are already playing Mayweather's game. He is currently setting all the agendas, dictating and controlling the direction of this entire act. Whatever the outcome of this is it will now be totally and utterly on Mayweather's terms.
Thats neither good or bad, pro or anti either of them. Its just the way it is.
DJC said:
Oh knock it off.
Derek deserves everything he gets for his Godawfully irritating "holier than thou" and "faux fount of all knowledge" posts he tries to make and if I had to wiki Enigma given my background I would be in trouble. Some of us have more than enough military connections to occupy our thoughts with than Dereks wafflings, including the lives and deaths of those who serve. I take as read that he doesnt have those connections, as if he did he would be a damn sight less maudling, sentimental and annoying about it.
And only 2 insulting posts in one day? Blimey, you boys must miss my others!.
Last point first, thank God.Derek deserves everything he gets for his Godawfully irritating "holier than thou" and "faux fount of all knowledge" posts he tries to make and if I had to wiki Enigma given my background I would be in trouble. Some of us have more than enough military connections to occupy our thoughts with than Dereks wafflings, including the lives and deaths of those who serve. I take as read that he doesnt have those connections, as if he did he would be a damn sight less maudling, sentimental and annoying about it.
And only 2 insulting posts in one day? Blimey, you boys must miss my others!.
"My background" . . Nazi spy then, that explains it.
Still know f
k all about boxing though, piano wire, pliers and barbed wire wit more the weapons of choice then Herr DJC?Edited by Lost_BMW on Thursday 24th December 11:50
Lost_BMW said:
DJC said:
Oh knock it off.
Derek deserves everything he gets for his Godawfully irritating "holier than thou" and "faux fount of all knowledge" posts he tries to make and if I had to wiki Enigma given my background I would be in trouble. Some of us have more than enough military connections to occupy our thoughts with than Dereks wafflings, including the lives and deaths of those who serve. I take as read that he doesnt have those connections, as if he did he would be a damn sight less maudling, sentimental and annoying about it.
And only 2 insulting posts in one day? Blimey, you boys must miss my others!.
Last point first, thank God.Derek deserves everything he gets for his Godawfully irritating "holier than thou" and "faux fount of all knowledge" posts he tries to make and if I had to wiki Enigma given my background I would be in trouble. Some of us have more than enough military connections to occupy our thoughts with than Dereks wafflings, including the lives and deaths of those who serve. I take as read that he doesnt have those connections, as if he did he would be a damn sight less maudling, sentimental and annoying about it.
And only 2 insulting posts in one day? Blimey, you boys must miss my others!.
"My background" . . Nazi spy then, that explains it.
Still know f
k all about boxing though, piano wire, pliers and barbed wire wit more the weapons of choice then Herr DJC?Edited by Lost_BMW on Thursday 24th December 11:50
DJC said:
tuscaneer said:
he probably isn`t aware of the enigma machines existense letalone significance.i can just see him reading this and hitting wikipedia furiously.i can`t see him popping back in here to be honest...anyway,back to the boxing........!!!
Oh knock it off.Derek deserves everything he gets for his Godawfully irritating "holier than thou" and "faux fount of all knowledge" posts he tries to make and if I had to wiki Enigma given my background I would be in trouble. Some of us have more than enough military connections to occupy our thoughts with than Dereks wafflings, including the lives and deaths of those who serve. I take as read that he doesnt have those connections, as if he did he would be a damn sight less maudling, sentimental and annoying about it.
And only 2 insulting posts in one day? Blimey, you boys must miss my others!
And couldnt see me popping in back in here? If nothing else Tusc it would be to laugh at you again finding something else to beat Mayweather with and automatically decide the whole blood thing must be about Mayweather trying to duck and that Bob Arum was being transparant. Bob Arum...transparant!!! But hey, shock, horror, its another angle for you to badmouth Mayweather about. Not that you are a broken record or anything...
And I wouldnt mind, I dont much like Mayweather myself, but I can sure as hell respect the bloke as a boxer. It irritates me profusely that someone can be so blatently and lopsidedly biased that Im moved to defend the target of their ire. Your stirring up of the popular anti-Mayweather feeling also invokes DJC rule no 2...whatever a popular majority of pistonhead feels, the opposite is almost gauranteed to be the truth.
Dirty Boy put up good info. It doesnt reflect too well on either fighter, but arguably the guy it reflects least well on is Manny and that was because there was no really good reason for him to be overly bothered about it all. I can only agree with the surmise that it is about not being seen to be pushed around by Mayweather and his demands and looking the equal of him, not an inferior supplicant. The trouble is with all this is that Manny and Roach are already playing Mayweather's game. He is currently setting all the agendas, dictating and controlling the direction of this entire act. Whatever the outcome of this is it will now be totally and utterly on Mayweather's terms.
Thats neither good or bad, pro or anti either of them. Its just the way it is.
i`m not a standard bearer for bob arum knowing full well he`s another lying dirty b
d promoter just like the rest of them.the press statement he issued was fairly straight foreward and was transparent.floyd senior`s statement was rambling nonsense as per usual.floyd has form for being an awkward negotiator and does whatever he can to tip fights to his favour.like dragging jmm up two weight divisions to fight him.again,you can`t argue with him looking out for his own interests but what rubs me(and a hell of a lot of other people)is the way he carries on after such performances.like he`s the new henry armstrong.a lot of his victories are tainted by this.fact.
this is my point about mayweather.as much as he is a wizard boxer and a defensive master he is the one here with form for this sort of carry on.this is what i dislike about him.how good could he have been if he had ferociously carved his way through all opposition and fought all in front of him instead of strategically ducking and weaving past all the major threats in the divisions he has fought in.
i feel i have been courtious to you throughout our postings despite such s
t comments like "mosley would leave the ring flat on his back against mayweather,of vthat i have no doubt".it`s these sorts of posts that show you have no real knowledge of what you are talking about.of course he COULD get sparked by mayweather but looking at his career there is no reason to think this would happen.you don`t really know what you are talking about.i will always champion the no nonsense champions who fight everyone without question.people like vitali klitschko,shane mosley etc.and i will always moan about the duckers like mayweather.i save particular scorn for him because he has more natural talent than most other fighters in the history of the sport.a willie pep he will never be.not that i expect you to know who willie pep or henry armstrong are.
by the way, i like the way you neatly sidestepped your rather unsavoury sweeping comments about asian people.it showed your true class.
tuscaneer said:
a bit more info has come to light here.bob arum is saying that manny is prepred to undergo three blood tests.one now,one in january on one in the locker room after the fight.the reason they don`t want the usda to administer the tests is because they won`t bend their rules to accomodate the fighters and insist that they will take as many random blood tests as they want right up to the fight.this is the concern for pacquiao`s camp.independent dope testing(can`t remember the name of the outfit)has stated that manny`s offer of unlimited urine testing coupled with the three blood tests is way beyond what would be required to detect any juicing whatsoever.
Then they are wrong from what I have read. Urine tests are easily worked around afaik, whether that is faking them or masking them.Something is off with this. Am sure it has also been claimed that Manny has a needle phobia and needs 3-4 days to recover from a blood test. How does that work?
well there is still no comment on any of the major boxing websites from mayweather promotions or golden boy promotions regarding this situation.what i don`t understand here is why three separate blood tests still aren`t enough.as stated previously,one in january,one 30 days before the fight and one in the locker room immediately after the fight.can anyone realistically say that this is not enough??have i missed something here,i just don`t get the silence from the mayweather camp.either they will or won`t accept these terms.silence tells me that this fight is slipping through the fight fans` fingers
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