The **BOXING** thread
Discussion
Skeete looks a decent fighter and probably has the potential to step up beyond domestic level. I don't think he has Khan/Brook levels of ability though, but fair play to the guy if he ends up proving me wrong.
Gavin, I'll admit, is an enigma to me. I'm sure he has talent in abundance (I think he's still the only man from the UK to win a world amateur championship) but as a pro, I've only ever seen that fleetingly. When he's on form, he looks a very good counter-puncher but, in my opinion, too much of the time he looks one-dimensional, not particularly heavy-handed and, to be honest, just not as classy as someone with his pedigree should. The first time he stepped up from domestic level, he lost and - with all due respect to Leonard Bundu - lost to a tough and seasoned pro but not a world-beater, especially not by the standards of the Welterweight division. Of even more concern, it appears that Gavin doesn't really live the life and, from the sounds of it, is something of a troubled soul too.
I really don't want to write him off but so far there's not been an awful lot to give me belief he can operate at a level above where he is. And, realistically, time isn't really on his side any more. Okay, he's not past it or anything but he is coming up for 30 now; he's not some fresh-faced kid. I just feel that if he was on a path to the very top, we should have seen a fair bit more from him by now.
In respect of the fight itself, I think it could end up a bit of a cagey/scrappy affair. Skeete is a rangey fighter with a decent jab but seems pretty comfortable fighting off the back foot too and likes to time his opponents. So, with Gavin's inclination towards counter-punching, it could end up in a bit of a stalemate with both trying to lure the other into initiating the attacks. Orthodox vs Southpaw doesn't often enhance the fluidity of a fight either. In terms of predictions, long story short....erm...dunno. Sorry!
Gavin, I'll admit, is an enigma to me. I'm sure he has talent in abundance (I think he's still the only man from the UK to win a world amateur championship) but as a pro, I've only ever seen that fleetingly. When he's on form, he looks a very good counter-puncher but, in my opinion, too much of the time he looks one-dimensional, not particularly heavy-handed and, to be honest, just not as classy as someone with his pedigree should. The first time he stepped up from domestic level, he lost and - with all due respect to Leonard Bundu - lost to a tough and seasoned pro but not a world-beater, especially not by the standards of the Welterweight division. Of even more concern, it appears that Gavin doesn't really live the life and, from the sounds of it, is something of a troubled soul too.
I really don't want to write him off but so far there's not been an awful lot to give me belief he can operate at a level above where he is. And, realistically, time isn't really on his side any more. Okay, he's not past it or anything but he is coming up for 30 now; he's not some fresh-faced kid. I just feel that if he was on a path to the very top, we should have seen a fair bit more from him by now.
In respect of the fight itself, I think it could end up a bit of a cagey/scrappy affair. Skeete is a rangey fighter with a decent jab but seems pretty comfortable fighting off the back foot too and likes to time his opponents. So, with Gavin's inclination towards counter-punching, it could end up in a bit of a stalemate with both trying to lure the other into initiating the attacks. Orthodox vs Southpaw doesn't often enhance the fluidity of a fight either. In terms of predictions, long story short....erm...dunno. Sorry!
Edited by Yiliterate on Friday 31st October 21:42
Some more excitement been added to the BJS vs Eubank Jr fight, winner will face Andy Lee or Matt Korobov, who will be fighting for the vacant WBO World title on December 13th in Vegas.
Boxnation have put together a great month of boxing; Chisora v Fury, BJS v Eubank Jr, Pacman v Algieri, Bernard Hopnkins V Kovalev.
Boxnation have put together a great month of boxing; Chisora v Fury, BJS v Eubank Jr, Pacman v Algieri, Bernard Hopnkins V Kovalev.
Has anyone actually fought back against Eubank jnr? I want to see how he reacts to being tagged but if his punch resistance is anything like his old man's the answer will be not much. I doubt it though. Saunders has far and away the better record but Eubank clearly has more flair. My biggest concern is Saunders' fitness, but if he has put in the work, I'll take him to burst the Eubank bubble.
Yiliterate said:
Skeete looks a decent fighter and probably has the potential to step up beyond domestic level. I don't think he has Khan/Brook levels of ability though, but fair play to the guy if he ends up proving me wrong.
Gavin, I'll admit, is an enigma to me. I'm sure he has talent in abundance (I think he's still the only man from the UK to win a world amateur championship) but as a pro, I've only ever seen that fleetingly. When he's on form, he looks a very good counter-puncher but, in my opinion, too much of the time he looks one-dimensional, not particularly heavy-handed and, to be honest, just not as classy as someone with his pedigree should. The first time he stepped up from domestic level, he lost and - with all due respect to Leonard Bundu - lost to a tough and seasoned pro but not a world-beater, especially not by the standards of the Welterweight division. Of even more concern, it appears that Gavin doesn't really live the life and, from the sounds of it, is something of a troubled soul too.
I really don't want to write him off but so far there's not been an awful lot to give me belief he can operate at a level above where he is. And, realistically, time isn't really on his side any more. Okay, he's not past it or anything but he is coming up for 30 now; he's not some fresh-faced kid. I just feel that if he was on a path to the very top, we should have seen a fair bit more from him by now.
In respect of the fight itself, I think it could end up a bit of a cagey/scrappy affair. Skeete is a rangey fighter with a decent jab but seems pretty comfortable fighting off the back foot too and likes to time his opponents. So, with Gavin's inclination towards counter-punching, it could end up in a bit of a stalemate with both trying to lure the other into initiating the attacks. Orthodox vs Southpaw doesn't often enhance the fluidity of a fight either. In terms of predictions, long story short....erm...dunno. Sorry!
Too late for Gavin. Maybe he will get his hands on a belt from a weaker body before he retires but it'll be a loss in his first defence. Wasted talent but he lacks the power to trouble the best.Gavin, I'll admit, is an enigma to me. I'm sure he has talent in abundance (I think he's still the only man from the UK to win a world amateur championship) but as a pro, I've only ever seen that fleetingly. When he's on form, he looks a very good counter-puncher but, in my opinion, too much of the time he looks one-dimensional, not particularly heavy-handed and, to be honest, just not as classy as someone with his pedigree should. The first time he stepped up from domestic level, he lost and - with all due respect to Leonard Bundu - lost to a tough and seasoned pro but not a world-beater, especially not by the standards of the Welterweight division. Of even more concern, it appears that Gavin doesn't really live the life and, from the sounds of it, is something of a troubled soul too.
I really don't want to write him off but so far there's not been an awful lot to give me belief he can operate at a level above where he is. And, realistically, time isn't really on his side any more. Okay, he's not past it or anything but he is coming up for 30 now; he's not some fresh-faced kid. I just feel that if he was on a path to the very top, we should have seen a fair bit more from him by now.
In respect of the fight itself, I think it could end up a bit of a cagey/scrappy affair. Skeete is a rangey fighter with a decent jab but seems pretty comfortable fighting off the back foot too and likes to time his opponents. So, with Gavin's inclination towards counter-punching, it could end up in a bit of a stalemate with both trying to lure the other into initiating the attacks. Orthodox vs Southpaw doesn't often enhance the fluidity of a fight either. In terms of predictions, long story short....erm...dunno. Sorry!
Edited by Yiliterate on Friday 31st October 21:42
Yiliterate said:
9mm said:
Has anyone actually fought back against Eubank jnr? I want to see how he reacts to being tagged but if his punch resistance is anything like his old man's the answer will be not much.
Are you saying he won't react much or that his punch resistance won't be up to much...?9mm said:
Yiliterate said:
9mm said:
Has anyone actually fought back against Eubank jnr? I want to see how he reacts to being tagged but if his punch resistance is anything like his old man's the answer will be not much.
Are you saying he won't react much or that his punch resistance won't be up to much...?
I would be absolutely chuffed to bits it if Hopkins were to win. I know he doesn't have the most aesthetically pleasing style but he is a genuine craftsman and it is a pleasure to see how he uses those skills and experience to defy age and logic time after time. And for him to be holding 3 world titles on his 50th birthday would IMO be one of the greatest sporting achievements of all time (not that holding 2 belts when aged 49 is anything other than amazing).
The thing is, if Hopkins doesn't make that milestone now, I really don't think I'll see it done in my lifetime...and that's why I'm apprehensive he took the Kovalev fight now. Outside of Kovalev, there are two other belt-holders in the division; Stevenson with the WBC and Braemer with the 'regular' WBA. After his most recent fight, I'd fancy Hopkins to beat Stevenson, dangerous puncher though he is, and I'd be reasonably sure he'd have the measure of Braemer too. If he'd have lined up either of those two entirely credible fights, I'd say there was a decent possibility that we'd have seen that landmark reached. But Kovalev is a different kettle of fish...
Kovalev isn't just a huge puncher, he's a clinical, calculating operator. Stevenson battered Bellew; Kovalev dismantled Cleverly...that's the difference. However, that's not to say there isn't a possibility that Hopkins could win. Kovalev has never faced anyone with his experience and canniness and, despite his advancing years, Hopkins is capable of making life difficult not just for decent fighters (Pavlik, Pascal, Cloud, Shumenov), but for some of the very best too (Joe Calzage). He also didn't seem to hesitate in taking the Kovalev fight so he must believe he can win it. I just wish he was fighting either of the other two first...
I'll say this much; if Hopkins were to win, I think it wouldn't be far off what Ali achieved in beating Foreman...and praise doesn't come much higher than that.
The thing is, if Hopkins doesn't make that milestone now, I really don't think I'll see it done in my lifetime...and that's why I'm apprehensive he took the Kovalev fight now. Outside of Kovalev, there are two other belt-holders in the division; Stevenson with the WBC and Braemer with the 'regular' WBA. After his most recent fight, I'd fancy Hopkins to beat Stevenson, dangerous puncher though he is, and I'd be reasonably sure he'd have the measure of Braemer too. If he'd have lined up either of those two entirely credible fights, I'd say there was a decent possibility that we'd have seen that landmark reached. But Kovalev is a different kettle of fish...
Kovalev isn't just a huge puncher, he's a clinical, calculating operator. Stevenson battered Bellew; Kovalev dismantled Cleverly...that's the difference. However, that's not to say there isn't a possibility that Hopkins could win. Kovalev has never faced anyone with his experience and canniness and, despite his advancing years, Hopkins is capable of making life difficult not just for decent fighters (Pavlik, Pascal, Cloud, Shumenov), but for some of the very best too (Joe Calzage). He also didn't seem to hesitate in taking the Kovalev fight so he must believe he can win it. I just wish he was fighting either of the other two first...
I'll say this much; if Hopkins were to win, I think it wouldn't be far off what Ali achieved in beating Foreman...and praise doesn't come much higher than that.
Edited by Yiliterate on Thursday 6th November 19:29
Yiliterate said:
I would be absolutely chuffed to bits it if Hopkins were to win. I know he doesn't have the most aesthetically pleasing style but he is a genuine craftsman and it is a pleasure to see how he uses those skills and experience to defy age and logic time after time. And for him to be holding 3 world titles on his 50th birthday would IMO be one of the greatest sporting achievements of all time (not that holding 2 belts when aged 49 is anything other than amazing).
The thing is, if Hopkins doesn't make that milestone now, I really don't think I'll see it done in my lifetime...and that's why I'm apprehensive he took the Kovalev fight now. Outside of Kovalev, there are two other belt-holders in the division; Stevenson with the WBC and Braemer with the 'regular' WBA. After his most recent fight, I'd fancy Hopkins to beat Stevenson, dangerous puncher though he is, and I'd be reasonably sure he'd have the measure of Braemer too. If he'd have lined up either of those two entirely credible fights, I'd say there was a decent possibility that we'd have seen that landmark reached. But Kovalev is a different kettle of fish...
Kovalev isn't just a huge puncher, he's a clinical, calculating operator. Stevenson battered Bellew; Kovalev dismantled Cleverly...that's the difference. However, that's not to say there isn't a possibility that Hopkins could win. Kovalev has never faced anyone with his experience and canniness and, despite his advancing years, Hopkins is capable of making life difficult not just for decent fighters (Pavlik, Pascal, Cloud, Shumenov), but for some of the very best too (Joe Calzage). He also didn't seem to hesitate in taking the Kovalev fight so he must believe he can win it. I just wish he was fighting either of the other two first...
I'll say this much; if Hopkins were to win, I think it wouldn't be far off what Ali achieved in beating Foreman...and praise doesn't come much higher than that.
Good points, and I agree. Hopkins beating Kovalev and holding three belts at the age of 50 will be one of sports greatest moments, and will go down in boxing history and all but secure Hopkins legacy. The thing is, if Hopkins doesn't make that milestone now, I really don't think I'll see it done in my lifetime...and that's why I'm apprehensive he took the Kovalev fight now. Outside of Kovalev, there are two other belt-holders in the division; Stevenson with the WBC and Braemer with the 'regular' WBA. After his most recent fight, I'd fancy Hopkins to beat Stevenson, dangerous puncher though he is, and I'd be reasonably sure he'd have the measure of Braemer too. If he'd have lined up either of those two entirely credible fights, I'd say there was a decent possibility that we'd have seen that landmark reached. But Kovalev is a different kettle of fish...
Kovalev isn't just a huge puncher, he's a clinical, calculating operator. Stevenson battered Bellew; Kovalev dismantled Cleverly...that's the difference. However, that's not to say there isn't a possibility that Hopkins could win. Kovalev has never faced anyone with his experience and canniness and, despite his advancing years, Hopkins is capable of making life difficult not just for decent fighters (Pavlik, Pascal, Cloud, Shumenov), but for some of the very best too (Joe Calzage). He also didn't seem to hesitate in taking the Kovalev fight so he must believe he can win it. I just wish he was fighting either of the other two first...
I'll say this much; if Hopkins were to win, I think it wouldn't be far off what Ali achieved in beating Foreman...and praise doesn't come much higher than that.
Edited by Yiliterate on Thursday 6th November 19:29
But Kovalev will not be easy to fight against. I can't really pick out a winner, Hopkins is a lot more experienced, Kovalev has never been I think past 7 or 8 rounds in his pro career. Hopkins could drag him into unknown territory and make him suffer, but Kovalev has brutal power, is much much younger, and on the night, age might finally catch up with 'The Executioner'.
Either way, I can't wait!
Enjoyed this from Kovalev, on Hopkins “He’s an alien,” said Kovalev, “but I have to send him to the moon and maybe from there, he’ll go by himself to Mars.”
And slightly off topic, there was a thread awhile back, discussing the idea of GGG vs Kovalev at catchweight. What do we think? Abel Sanchez said the Kovalev was scared of GGG in sparring, and that GGG dropped Kovalev.
I wish Andre Ward was more active, so there could be a chance of him fighting GGG.
With regards to Hopkins vs Kovalev, I see it like this.
Hopkins holds most of the advantages, even at his advanced years. He's faster, has better ring IQ, works beautifully off the jab, knows how to keep fighters out of range and ties them up as soon as he lands (watch how he brings an opponent in, hits them, side steps and then ties them up only to find himself back in the centre of the ring) which negates counter attacks. I would even go as far to say that he may have better stamina as afterall, Kovalev has never been passed 8 rounds.
The big things for me that are against Hopkins are his age (forget father time catching up with him, grandad time is catching up with him!), Kovalev's huge power advantage and potentially Hopkin's inability to take those kind of punches at his age.
For me, it's fairly simple to predict. If age hasn't taken another step away from Hopkin's then I think he will win a lopsided decision. If, however, he's not moving well and can't avoid those big punches then he will be going to the showers (or ER) early.
Powerful plodders have never bothered Hopkin's, he has only lost to fast fighters that can box intelligently behind a jab (Jones Jr, Dawson, Calzaghe and Taylor).
Whatever happens, Hopkin's has proven himself to be a phenomenal fighter. Nobody his age has any right to be doing what he does in the ring and nobody his age should choose to accept such a difficult challenge in Kovalev.
Hopkins holds most of the advantages, even at his advanced years. He's faster, has better ring IQ, works beautifully off the jab, knows how to keep fighters out of range and ties them up as soon as he lands (watch how he brings an opponent in, hits them, side steps and then ties them up only to find himself back in the centre of the ring) which negates counter attacks. I would even go as far to say that he may have better stamina as afterall, Kovalev has never been passed 8 rounds.
The big things for me that are against Hopkins are his age (forget father time catching up with him, grandad time is catching up with him!), Kovalev's huge power advantage and potentially Hopkin's inability to take those kind of punches at his age.
For me, it's fairly simple to predict. If age hasn't taken another step away from Hopkin's then I think he will win a lopsided decision. If, however, he's not moving well and can't avoid those big punches then he will be going to the showers (or ER) early.
Powerful plodders have never bothered Hopkin's, he has only lost to fast fighters that can box intelligently behind a jab (Jones Jr, Dawson, Calzaghe and Taylor).
Whatever happens, Hopkin's has proven himself to be a phenomenal fighter. Nobody his age has any right to be doing what he does in the ring and nobody his age should choose to accept such a difficult challenge in Kovalev.
excellent article in this months boxing monthly about mayweather's legacy perhaps not being where he sees it himself. the nub of the article was that the great fighters take risks. robinson up at light heavyweight versus maxim etc.
no matter if Hopkins wins or loses on Saturday his legacy is sesure , taking such a dangerous fight at such an advanced age is an achievement in itself.....in a way he can't lose. win and he's a demi god. lose and it's a case of father time has finally caught up with him against one of boxing's monsters.
if he wins, what does calzaghe's win against him look like!!...already that win has got more impressive over the years.this would be a cherry on top.
prediction.
for the last few weeks I've been siding with hopkins' ring craft to win the fight but as i'm rewatching more of kovalev i'm seeing that cut-the-ring-down efficiency more and more. I think it's a disservice to call kovalev a plodder. he looks a bit ploddy on the face of it but if you watch his feet he's not just aimlessly walking after people but rather trying to position them, and he's only got to position Hopkins correctly on an occasion or two to switch his lights out.
kovalev on a stoppage after half way........but I wouldn't be surprised if Hopkins spoiled his way to a point victory
no matter if Hopkins wins or loses on Saturday his legacy is sesure , taking such a dangerous fight at such an advanced age is an achievement in itself.....in a way he can't lose. win and he's a demi god. lose and it's a case of father time has finally caught up with him against one of boxing's monsters.
if he wins, what does calzaghe's win against him look like!!...already that win has got more impressive over the years.this would be a cherry on top.
prediction.
for the last few weeks I've been siding with hopkins' ring craft to win the fight but as i'm rewatching more of kovalev i'm seeing that cut-the-ring-down efficiency more and more. I think it's a disservice to call kovalev a plodder. he looks a bit ploddy on the face of it but if you watch his feet he's not just aimlessly walking after people but rather trying to position them, and he's only got to position Hopkins correctly on an occasion or two to switch his lights out.
kovalev on a stoppage after half way........but I wouldn't be surprised if Hopkins spoiled his way to a point victory
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