The difference between English rugby players and footballers
Discussion
Bankers bonus = bad
Footballers huge and massive paycheck = good
Strange old world really. MP's expenses, bankers bonuses etc are all looked at with horror by the public. But isn't it about time that footballers were held to account for what they are paid?
I won't bother with the rugby vs football thing as I hate football so it wouldn't be a balanced argument for me.
However I think the football industry has very little respect for the rules and the fans. If they somehow managed to bring respect for the rules, the refs and make footballer be role models for the kids, I think the kids would grow up a bit better.
Football needs to remember that it is a sport, and sport is one of the greatest things for children to grow up watching and participate in. Football has so much power over a large group of people, I don't think football is setting the best example and could do a lot better.
Footballers huge and massive paycheck = good
Strange old world really. MP's expenses, bankers bonuses etc are all looked at with horror by the public. But isn't it about time that footballers were held to account for what they are paid?
I won't bother with the rugby vs football thing as I hate football so it wouldn't be a balanced argument for me.
However I think the football industry has very little respect for the rules and the fans. If they somehow managed to bring respect for the rules, the refs and make footballer be role models for the kids, I think the kids would grow up a bit better.
Football needs to remember that it is a sport, and sport is one of the greatest things for children to grow up watching and participate in. Football has so much power over a large group of people, I don't think football is setting the best example and could do a lot better.
Zaxxon said:
Bankers bonus = bad
Footballers huge and massive paycheck = good
Strange old world really. MP's expenses, bankers bonuses etc are all looked at with horror by the public. But isn't it about time that footballers were held to account for what they are paid?
I won't bother with the rugby vs football thing as I hate football so it wouldn't be a balanced argument for me.
However I think the football industry has very little respect for the rules and the fans. If they somehow managed to bring respect for the rules, the refs and make footballer be role models for the kids, I think the kids would grow up a bit better.
Football needs to remember that it is a sport, and sport is one of the greatest things for children to grow up watching and participate in. Football has so much power over a large group of people, I don't think football is setting the best example and could do a lot better.
I don't think footballers are very well behaved, I also think they are lousy role models for young kids. However, you cannot deny that they help produce an incredible product. TV viewers will pay £50/month just to watch these guys on the box, fans pay hundreds of pounds to watch them live throughout the season, companies will pay millions to have them endorse their products.Footballers huge and massive paycheck = good
Strange old world really. MP's expenses, bankers bonuses etc are all looked at with horror by the public. But isn't it about time that footballers were held to account for what they are paid?
I won't bother with the rugby vs football thing as I hate football so it wouldn't be a balanced argument for me.
However I think the football industry has very little respect for the rules and the fans. If they somehow managed to bring respect for the rules, the refs and make footballer be role models for the kids, I think the kids would grow up a bit better.
Football needs to remember that it is a sport, and sport is one of the greatest things for children to grow up watching and participate in. Football has so much power over a large group of people, I don't think football is setting the best example and could do a lot better.
The EPL is brilliant, exciting and fantastic viewing. It generates hundreds of millions a year. Why should the footballers, who are at the core of this product not see a share of this money?
People dislike bankers, MPs etc making money because they get rewarded for failure. This certainly is not the case with footballers because if they fail for long enough they will be unemployed.
Victor McDade said:
I don't think footballers are very well behaved, I also think they are lousy role models for young kids. However, you cannot deny that they help produce an incredible product. TV viewers will pay £50/month just to watch these guys on the box, fans pay hundreds of pounds to watch them live throughout the season, companies will pay millions to have them endorse their products.
The EPL is brilliant, exciting and fantastic viewing. It generates hundreds of millions a year. Why should the footballers, who are at the core of this product not see a share of this money?
People dislike bankers, MPs etc making money because they get rewarded for failure. This certainly is not the case with footballers because if they fail for long enough they will be unemployed.
I agree with you regarding th emoney and the product that football is.The EPL is brilliant, exciting and fantastic viewing. It generates hundreds of millions a year. Why should the footballers, who are at the core of this product not see a share of this money?
People dislike bankers, MPs etc making money because they get rewarded for failure. This certainly is not the case with footballers because if they fail for long enough they will be unemployed.
However,
Devils advocate mode on:
The Bankers and MP's are working to improve this country and make money for it.
Devils advocate mode off:
(Can't belive I just wrote that....I need a shower)
But the footballers add little to this countries prestige, the England squad even damage it quite a lot IMO, unlike our rugby, cricket and motorsport teams.
Opposed to that the Premier league does still wow the world and bring in a fair bit of cash from the far east, although isn't the german and Spanish leagues more popular now across the world?
ClintonB said:
I actually watched the Ireland v England game last night and thought there was rather more questioning & the like than used to be the case.
Martin Johnson didn't stop talking to the ref all the way through any match. He was ostensibly polite but it was done for a reason.If we're bringing fans into it then the difference is football fans don't complain about rugby, whereas rugby fans love to moan about football.
As to banker's improving the country - no, they are trying to improve the profitability of the companies they work for and that's exactly what footballers do.
As to banker's improving the country - no, they are trying to improve the profitability of the companies they work for and that's exactly what footballers do.
DJC said:
Agree with some of the other posters, mic up the ref in football and backchat to the ref = 10 yard advance.
As I said, the FA could do this immediately. However, the discussion that would be lost would be to their detriment, (at least I think that's what they think). The Monday morning debates in the papers, pubs, and sleek laces is essentially publicity. It is odd to see a referee running away after making a decision in football. Anyone other than the captains speaking to the ref should be by invitation only.
I enjoy a bit of barracking of the ref in rugby but it can go too far. Telling him his car's on fire is ok, but actually torching it just crosses the line.
In the commentary at our club over the weekend when we played Jersey the chap on the PA said something like: and the referee, Fred Thompson, has awarded a penalty try for Jersey.
One of our crowd shouted: Don't just tell us his name, we want to know where he lives as well.
There was laughter and then someone shouted: It's obviously somewhere in Jersey.
The linesman laughed. Most of the fans just mumbled.
I enjoy a bit of barracking of the ref in rugby but it can go too far. Telling him his car's on fire is ok, but actually torching it just crosses the line.
In the commentary at our club over the weekend when we played Jersey the chap on the PA said something like: and the referee, Fred Thompson, has awarded a penalty try for Jersey.
One of our crowd shouted: Don't just tell us his name, we want to know where he lives as well.
There was laughter and then someone shouted: It's obviously somewhere in Jersey.
The linesman laughed. Most of the fans just mumbled.
Ive nver quite understood the whole running away thing with refs in football or looking like they are intimidated. Id just stand there and ask them if they didnt like the decision wtf were they going to do about it? Cry to mummy like the little girl they were? Can you imagine being intimidated by Gary Nevill? It would be like being scared of a stuffed badger.
DJC said:
Ive nver quite understood the whole running away thing with refs in football or looking like they are intimidated. Id just stand there and ask them if they didnt like the decision wtf were they going to do about it? Cry to mummy like the little girl they were? Can you imagine being intimidated by Gary Nevill? It would be like being scared of a stuffed badger.
It's not like these footballers posess anything intimidating other than their gobs. Fittster said:
Football = popular.
Rugby = so unpopular even terrestrial television can afford the rights.
What, for one international competition a year? And ITV have the World Cup.Rugby = so unpopular even terrestrial television can afford the rights.
Trust me, the majority of rugby is on Sky/ESPN, but I'm not subsidising the footballers by buying into it. I can live with myp2peu.net.
I think the sense of pride in rugby players is correlated with the requirement to be extremely physical and get stuck in, putting their bodies on the line for their team - a natural adrenalin pump if you like.
That is not to say this is (was) not evident in football - I would compare rugby players in attitude to the tough centre-back, Tony Adams or Stuart Pearce types.
Conversely in football there are way too many sulkers and primadonna's - just insulting given how much they get paid.
It always struck me as odd that someone like Ronaldo would act the way he does in the knowledge he has been born with an incredible talent...I guess it is easy for me to say, living in real life, but why not be proud of this talent, rather than fall over all the time, feigning injury, writhing around, b
hing at the ref etc.
Messi is a greta role-model. He gets fouled all the time but I have never once seen him in the ref's face if a decision does not go his way.
Every football team needs it's skillful players, but why do so many of them have to be like that big pansy Nani?
Anyway, I enjoy football and rugby equally, but as I said, different games, different mindsets.
That is not to say this is (was) not evident in football - I would compare rugby players in attitude to the tough centre-back, Tony Adams or Stuart Pearce types.
Conversely in football there are way too many sulkers and primadonna's - just insulting given how much they get paid.
It always struck me as odd that someone like Ronaldo would act the way he does in the knowledge he has been born with an incredible talent...I guess it is easy for me to say, living in real life, but why not be proud of this talent, rather than fall over all the time, feigning injury, writhing around, b
hing at the ref etc.Messi is a greta role-model. He gets fouled all the time but I have never once seen him in the ref's face if a decision does not go his way.
Every football team needs it's skillful players, but why do so many of them have to be like that big pansy Nani?
Anyway, I enjoy football and rugby equally, but as I said, different games, different mindsets.
Unfortunately there is no honour in football. The attitude of 'win at any cost' permeates all the way from management and players in the premier league all the way down to junior sunday games.
It would require a sea change in attitude from the FIFA/FAs, who tolerate the disgraceful behaviour towards officials, managers, who defend/deny the disgusting behaviour from their players, and players who will cheat/lie/playact to get any advantage they can.
It needs a strong leader at the very top to insist that refs start showing cards for any dissent. If that means a few games being abandonded because too many players are dismissed, so be it. The players might be idiots but they are not daft. If they keep getting sent off for dissent they will stop.
That said, regarding football players wages, they are the ones the public pay to see, so if the clubs are bringing in multimillions, it should go mostly to the players.
It would require a sea change in attitude from the FIFA/FAs, who tolerate the disgraceful behaviour towards officials, managers, who defend/deny the disgusting behaviour from their players, and players who will cheat/lie/playact to get any advantage they can.
It needs a strong leader at the very top to insist that refs start showing cards for any dissent. If that means a few games being abandonded because too many players are dismissed, so be it. The players might be idiots but they are not daft. If they keep getting sent off for dissent they will stop.
That said, regarding football players wages, they are the ones the public pay to see, so if the clubs are bringing in multimillions, it should go mostly to the players.
DocJock said:
Unfortunately there is no honour in football. The attitude of 'win at any cost' permeates all the way from management and players in the premier league all the way down to junior sunday games.
It would require a sea change in attitude from the FIFA/FAs, who tolerate the disgraceful behaviour towards officials, managers, who defend/deny the disgusting behaviour from their players, and players who will cheat/lie/playact to get any advantage they can.
It needs a strong leader at the very top to insist that refs start showing cards for any dissent. If that means a few games being abandonded because too many players are dismissed, so be it. The players might be idiots but they are not daft. If they keep getting sent off for dissent they will stop.
That said, regarding football players wages, they are the ones the public pay to see, so if the clubs are bringing in multimillions, it should go mostly to the players.
agree entirely about the FA stamping down. Could be done overnight, but they refuse to. yellow card for language. 10 yards for encroaching on the referee, however, if they did that, I think the ref should have a mic, and explain the decisions like in American Football/rugby.It would require a sea change in attitude from the FIFA/FAs, who tolerate the disgraceful behaviour towards officials, managers, who defend/deny the disgusting behaviour from their players, and players who will cheat/lie/playact to get any advantage they can.
It needs a strong leader at the very top to insist that refs start showing cards for any dissent. If that means a few games being abandonded because too many players are dismissed, so be it. The players might be idiots but they are not daft. If they keep getting sent off for dissent they will stop.
That said, regarding football players wages, they are the ones the public pay to see, so if the clubs are bringing in multimillions, it should go mostly to the players.
Rugby is set up in such a way that international games are the pinnacle of the sport and all clubs are designed purely to facilitate national teams. Cricket is also organised in a similar manner. This is how international sides are able to go touring for weeks on end and deprive clubs of their best players. This is reflected in the quality and appeal of domestic leagues, where the best players are unavailable or injured due to international games.
For example, 2009/10 season saw a total of 1.8m people attend Guiness Premier games, whereas 13.5m attended EPL. Twickenham and the Millennium stadium are always sellouts for internationals though; because if you want to see the best players compete, you have to go to an international match. In football, the clubs are paramount and internationals secondary. If you want to see the best players you are more likley at an EPL match than you are at an international (unless Spain are playing Brazil...). Also, friendlies matches are pretty pointless spectacles during the season, when understandbly, players don't want to get injured and lose their place in their club sides. It's very rare for players to pull out of competive international matches and Wembley is usually pretty full.
Also, whilst playing international rugby is the pinnacle of a rugby player, this may have a large part to do with how few teams actually compete; the 6 nations and the 3 South Hemisphere teams plus the whipping boys Argentina. All the best players in the world are concentrated in those teams. If you play for England are you at the very top of your sport. Whereas almost every county plays football internationally and just playing for your national side doesn't mean that you are a good player or indeed that your country is any good or in any way competitive.
For example, 2009/10 season saw a total of 1.8m people attend Guiness Premier games, whereas 13.5m attended EPL. Twickenham and the Millennium stadium are always sellouts for internationals though; because if you want to see the best players compete, you have to go to an international match. In football, the clubs are paramount and internationals secondary. If you want to see the best players you are more likley at an EPL match than you are at an international (unless Spain are playing Brazil...). Also, friendlies matches are pretty pointless spectacles during the season, when understandbly, players don't want to get injured and lose their place in their club sides. It's very rare for players to pull out of competive international matches and Wembley is usually pretty full.
Also, whilst playing international rugby is the pinnacle of a rugby player, this may have a large part to do with how few teams actually compete; the 6 nations and the 3 South Hemisphere teams plus the whipping boys Argentina. All the best players in the world are concentrated in those teams. If you play for England are you at the very top of your sport. Whereas almost every county plays football internationally and just playing for your national side doesn't mean that you are a good player or indeed that your country is any good or in any way competitive.
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